Strange death of Sufism!

[Trango Towers]

I hope this doesn’t upset anyone.
Apologies upfront.

But I want to know why were the Wahabis allowed to destroy Sufism in South Asia and beyond.

Our forefathers and those who brought Islam to our shores were Sufis.

One of the most disgusting acts perpetrated under the last BNP government was the attack on Sufi shrines.

The Americans of course funded the jihadists and co-opted them to fight communism. Wahabis of course hate Sufis because they are enlightened and challenge backward thinking.

How can Sufism regain its primacy in South Asia and beat back the Wahabis?

I don't want to offend you but.

Prophet of Allah told us that Islam will splinter into 73 sects. All will go to hell except 1. Which one.

Now as a betting man if you were given the odds of 1 :73. Would you take the bet?

And finally what sect was prophet Muhammed? If he wasn't why r u? Why nit be what he was ...
Simply a Muslim and do what he did. No more no less.

 

[_Nabil_]

it looks like you are the write of suffism here??
no??
i want to know these definnations by some one well known in sufism .
if you ask me what is islam i would Quote Mohammad S.a.w.w because no other has the right to define islam .
so where did sufism generated?
who was the first sufi??
did Mohammad s.a.w.w preach sufism??

Sufism is based on 3 things :

- renunciation of worldly things,
- purification of the soul
- mystical contemplation of God's nature

I'm not interested by actual or previous charlatanism of some "Sufi"

Those broad ideas have nothing that oppose Islam


PS : I'm not a Sufi

 

[BananaRepublicUK]

it looks like you are the write of suffism here??
no??
i want to know these definnations by some one well known in sufism .
if you ask me what is islam i would Quote Mohammad S.a.w.w because no other has the right to define islam .
so where did sufism generated?
who was the first sufi??
did Mohammad s.a.w.w preach sufism??

Your quotes of the prophet are obviously not universally accepted.

Otherwise why would 4/5

I don't want to offend you but.

Prophet of Allah told us that Islam will splinter into 73 sects. All will go to hell except 1. Which one.

Now as a betting man if you were given the odds of 1 :73. Would you take the bet?

And finally what sect was prophet Muhammed? If he wasn't why r u? Why nit be what he was ...
Simply a Muslim and do what he did. No more no less.

wow!

So simple!

So why so much bloodbath amongst Muslims?

So why were almost all early caliphs murdered?

You make it so simple!

Wow!

 

[MultaniGuy]

I don't want to offend you but.

Prophet of Allah told us that Islam will splinter into 73 sects. All will go to hell except 1. Which one.

Now as a betting man if you were given the odds of 1 :73. Would you take the bet?

And finally what sect was prophet Muhammed? If he wasn't why r u? Why nit be what he was ...
Simply a Muslim and do what he did. No more no less.

Yes, and those Muslims who claim to follow the Prophet Muhammad (saw) 's example are called Sunnis.

 

[Trango Towers]

With due respect to everyones opinion and madhabs in islam, with advancement of science sufi mysticism cant answer questions that Salafis can. If you look at religious debates between us and christian missionaries, athists or jews, you will see what kind of questions we face and it will be very difficult to answer with mysticism in this age of science.
I follow debates of Adnan Rashid, ustad Seikh Uthman on youtube, a great watch, both originated from pakistan but great debaters and scholars on comparative religion.

You will find salafie movement are more evidence based and try to follow the roots of islams as it tries to follow what sahabies did or noted that later saints or imams so appealing to masses. So with information availability to more people like me are moving towards the core.

Allah only gave us one religion and madhabs are openions of great imams and hope it all brings us to jannah.

Salafis have only one thing correct - aqeeda. Aside from that everything they do say and practice is wrong. They destroy families. Cause divorces and generally make a family hell. They have hundreds of groups within salafism. And they are very elitist and look down at other. I know - I have family members who are salafis and they are totally heartless and claim to be Muslims. I can't judge as I am only a man but I know our Allah is kind loving merciful and he hates pride and arrogance.

 

[Goritoes]

Islam came down as Islam, everything else is man made BS.

 

[kingQamaR]

Sufism is Mysticism in Islam and existed from the days of the prophet(pbuh) and many of the prophet’s companions were great Sufi.
Muslim do not hate the true Sufism but reject many of the new founded sects in Sufism like the Turkish Sufism Whirling Dervishes for the music and dancing and in the depending on dead Alawlia( Saints) these acts are wrong and rejected by Islam.Whirling Dervishes and dead Saints worshipers are pedha (heresy/novelty) in Islam and no connection to the true Islamic Sufism .

 

[PakAlp]

You think Deobandis are Sufis? Lol

Drobandis are Wahhabis and their father is Yazid and founder was Mohammad bin Abdul Wahhab Najdi.

Barelvi is not a sect but this name given by Wahhabis, they are popular with name Sufi out side of Sub continent, but in Sub continent Barelvi or Sunni.

You stated facts. If you visit Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Turkey, Morocco, Iraq, Syria, jordan etc, majority of muslims are sunni/sufi. People need to understand Sunnis are sufis. Sufi just means people who follow tasawuff/Ihsan. Hanafi Shafi maliki etc is the fiqh.

The question is if brelvi is a sect then why are they the majority? The reason is because they chose to stick with the old Islam and not any modern version of it as practised by others. So the new groups were named Ahle hadith and deobandis but the traditional Muslim were named by the new groups as brelvi just to make them in to a new sect. If you study Turkish ottoman, Seljuk Islam, mughal islam, Indonesian Islam etc which goes back 900 odd years, they are same as the Pakistani sunni sufis. Spreading deception are tactics by some.

People say we are salafis but not hanafis etc but Imam Abu Hanifa Ra was himself a Salaf. So in reality the hanafis are the real salafis. Kinda childish propaganda.

The issue with sunni sufis is because they were the majority so when the whole society became decay and education went downhill, they failed to reform but the new groups started from 0 and they were more active and organised. Look at Al azhar, they are shafi sufis but they are so old (900 years) and huge that they fail to make reforms to compete with modern movements like salafis and MB. Same in the Arab world but other places tried to reform. Another downhill is corrupt people became shaykhs and started businesses in the name of sunni sufi islam.

Modern day sunni sufi Ahlus sunnah movements.
Indonesia- Al Nahda tul Ulama.
Turkey - has alot of educated movements
Egypt - Al Azhar
Morocco - justice and spirituality movement
Pakistan India Bangladesh - have some big sunni movements, although I believe they need to make more reforms and learn from Al Azhar, Indonesia and Turkey. We in Asia don't learn about our history and roots whilst some countries have high education level and they learn. We still lack in tasawuff and this is why we are going downhill. This goes to all.

Sufism is Mysticism in Islam and existed from the days of the prophet(pbuh) and many of the prophet’s companions were great Sufi.
Muslim do not hate the true Sufism but reject many of the new founded sects in Sufism like the Turkish Sufism Whirling Dervishes for the music and dancing and in the depending on dead Alawlia( Saints) these acts are wrong and rejected by Islam.Whirling Dervishes and dead Saints worshipers are pedha (heresy/novelty) in Islam and no connection to the true Islamic Sufism .

Noone worships graves or saints. Jahil people just overtake places and start small groups to make money. Scholars issue fatwas against bad practises but noone listens. Similar to corruption.

 

[Trango Towers]

Yes, and those Muslims who claim to follow the Prophet Muhammad (saw) 's example are called Sunnis.

No.
Why call themselves sunni? And which sunni? Brelwi perhaps ( big fat molvis dancing in the musjid) or followers of Razwi (swearing and profanity is norm).
Sunni means to follow the prophet pbuh. So any man or woman who prays salat is a sunni.
Get away from the clubs that you belong to

I am a Muslim only. Period. I will not allow any jahil to clasify my faith into a sect. The prophet of Allah was a Muslim only. End of

Its a weakness of the mind that's been brainwashed and a desire to want to belong to a group. That's why the quran repeated says ' this is a religion for men of understanding'

 

[kingQamaR]

Over the ages many different sects of Sufis have developed with most of them introducing strange practices which could lead to shirk, also some have indulged themselves in great sins and so one must be careful while selecting a spiritual teacher

 

[Foinikas]

The main difference lies in inconoclasm, which wahabism is carrier of. Wahabism in strict sense is extreme orthodoxy, which explains why it originated in Arabian Peninsula and not forexample Persia. Wahabism also has sub-categories if i understand correct. Some of them are very close to Kawarij doctrines while others are not that different from Sufis.

Mostly down to interpretation

Orthodoxy is the wrong word here. They are more like Puritans but with an extreme sense of violence,sometimes like American cults are.

 

[MultaniGuy]

No.
Why call themselves sunni? And which sunni? Brelwi perhaps ( big fat molvis dancing in the musjid) or followers of Razwi (swearing and profanity is norm).
Sunni means to follow the prophet pbuh. So any man or woman who prays salat is a sunni.
Get away from the clubs that you belong to

I am a Muslim only. Period. I will not allow any jahil to clasify my faith into a sect. The prophet of Allah was a Muslim only. End of

Its a weakness of the mind that's been brainwashed and a desire to want to belong to a group. That's why the quran repeated says ' this is a religion for men of understanding'

The regular Muslim is called a Sunni.

Orthodoxy is the wrong word here. They are more like Puritans but with an extreme sense of violence,sometimes like American cults are.

Show me where Salafis promote violence.

Oh wow, its this Greek guy on a Green Pakistani forum. lol.

 

[StormBreaker]

I hope this doesn’t upset anyone.
Apologies upfront.

But I want to know why were the Wahabis allowed to destroy Sufism in South Asia and beyond.

Our forefathers and those who brought Islam to our shores were Sufis.

One of the most disgusting acts perpetrated under the last BNP government was the attack on Sufi shrines.

The Americans of course funded the jihadists and co-opted them to fight communism. Wahabis of course hate Sufis because they are enlightened and challenge backward thinking.

How can Sufism regain its primacy in South Asia and beat back the Wahabis?

Sufism was destroyed by none other than sufies themselves.

The lot present in Indian subcontinent has not only destroyed sufism but also Islam by introducing all sorts of innovations and stone age mindset.

The early sufis of 9th-12th century were actual sufis, They had brains unlike the lot we find today in the name of Naqshbandis or what not !

Those early sufis were too deep into mysticism and their understanding of existence and consciousness was actually quite amazing and beautiful.

Ajkal to bas mazar pe jakar langar khanay ki hadd tak reh gai hai.

 

[Destranator]

I hope this doesn’t upset anyone.
Apologies upfront.

But I want to know why were the Wahabis allowed to destroy Sufism in South Asia and beyond.

Our forefathers and those who brought Islam to our shores were Sufis.

One of the most disgusting acts perpetrated under the last BNP government was the attack on Sufi shrines.

The Americans of course funded the jihadists and co-opted them to fight communism. Wahabis of course hate Sufis because they are enlightened and challenge backward thinking.

How can Sufism regain its primacy in South Asia and beat back the Wahabis?

We are the majority by far....But not the most vocal.

Sufis do not have oil money to brainwash kids with.

 

[Wergeland]

Orthodoxy is the wrong word here. They are more like Puritans but with an extreme sense of violence,sometimes like American cults are.

I think it describe it very well.
They are puritans only compared with some of the recent muslim practices that are syncretic or semi syncretic. But not compared to how Prophets Companions practised.

It has to do with time and space, which has evolved since The Prophets time (Peace and blessings be upon him) and the first few hundred year after he died. As islam politically grew out of Arabia, it evolved into a multi-ethnic and multicultural civilization. Attaining evolved interpretations, practices and sometimes costumes from the new lands it drew into its fold.

Islam isnt inherently against local practices, its only against local practices which contradicts main tenets of islam, especially the Oneness of God. That is exactly what Salafism is: trying to remove elements within Islam that THEY see as NOT in accordance with main tenets lf Islam, like forexample Saint worshipping. Most of them practice that privately in a tolerant manner, but some elements are more hostile and even violent, as you said.

That being said, I believe one of the challenges with Wahabism/Salafism is the tendency to overlook how pragmatic and progressive The Prophet and his companions were. In their own time, own society, they were more like radical revolutionaries. Trying to move their tribalistic society forward, make more just and fair for as many people as possible.