Stand-off in Ukraine hits IAF fleet refit

[SpArK]

Stand-off in Ukraine hits IAF fleet refit

Monday , October 20 , 2014

An AN32 aircraft


New Delhi, Oct. 19:

Five Indian Air Force planes have been grounded in Ukraine where they had been sent for a refit and upgrade.

The five Antonov 32 aircraft — the last batch of 40 from the IAF’s fleet of about a 100 — were to be delivered by Ukraine in August.

The AN32 aircraft is integral to the daily operations of the IAF, transporting troops, materiel and dropping rations and stores at high altitude posts as well as being deployed for search and rescue during natural disasters.

But Ukraine’s continuing troubles with Russia are now threatening to hit the Indian military hard. The IAF has taken the first blow.

The upgrade of the aircraft is stuck because Russia has refused to supply some of the components that are to be fitted in the aircraft.

Under a 2009 agreement between the Indian Air Force and Kiev-based SpetsTechnoExport, the Ukrainian firm was contracted to give the workhorse of the IAF’s transport fleet a “total technical life extension” that would keep the aircraft flying beyond 2025.

The upgraded aircraft, designated the AN32RE, were to be given a modified cockpit, newer avionics and noise and vibration reducing technologies. Forty of the aircraft were to be modernised in Ukraine and the remaining in India.

According to the original schedule, the upgrades in Ukraine were to be completed by March this year. Kiev requested and was permitted to alter the schedule to August. Now, Ukraine has missed that deadline as well.

The AN32s were procured by India in the 1980s. The upgrade programme, initially estimated to cost $400 million, involves a refit of major systems as well as strengthening the airframes.

In a written reply in Parliament in 2009, the then defence minister had said: “The project includes calendar life extension up to 40 years, overhaul and re-equipment of AN32 aircraft. There were no conditionalities at the time of acquisition of AN32 with the Russian government.”

When the AN32s were first contracted, Ukraine was a Soviet republic. An estimated 30 per cent of the former Soviet Republic’s military industrial complex was based in Ukraine. Since the dismantling of the Soviet Union, India has continued to depend on Ukraine not only for its Antonov aircraft but also for the supply of engines for the Indian Navy’s Delhi-class warships (destroyers).

Stand-off in Ukraine hits IAF fleet refit

 

[The Unnamed]

Did it hit IAF today ? There is a major revamp needed in IAF IA and IN brass. in that order. All the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear. Sometimes forces know best isn't so. Were these guys sleeping the last whole year ?

A fulll time defense minister of Jaitleyji. or modiji keeps defense for 3 years.

 

[sancho]

Did it hit IAF today ? There is a major revamp needed in IAF IA and IN brass. in that order. All the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear. Sometimes forces know best isn't so. Were these guys sleeping the last whole year ?

A fulll time defense minister of Jaitleyji. or modiji keeps defense for 3 years.

To be fair though, the upgrade contracts for the AN32 were done before the conflict started, so that's that's nobody's fault in India. However, it only increases the importance of the Avro replacement and to speed up MTA developments. Not to mention that any offer of Antonov in the Avro replacement should have very low chances now.

 

[halfilhal]

It is manageable and should not be any news. This country takes decades to buy anything new. I doubt it will even sigh for a year delay in refit.

 

[The Unnamed]

To be fair though, the upgrade contracts for the AN32 were done before the conflict started, so that's that's nobody's fault in India. However, it only increases the importance of the Avro replacement and to speed up MTA developments. Not to mention that any offer of Antonov in the Avro replacement should have very low chances now.

this is how they setup for situations for high pricee off the shelf foreign maal as emergency two years from now.

anthony ruined alone ? no. but he let the corrupt sit deep into establishment.

there are so many things wrong on so many levels. in this case. particularly.

let itt go..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Did it hit IAF today ? There is a major revamp needed in IAF IA and IN brass. in that order. All the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear. Sometimes forces know best isn't so. Were these guys sleeping the last whole year ?

A fulll time defense minister of Jaitleyji. or modiji keeps defense for 3 years.

this is how they setup for situations for high pricee off the shelf foreign maal as emergency two years from now.

anthony ruined alone ? no. but he let the corrupt sit deep into establishment.

there are so many things wrong on so many levels. in this case. particularly.

let itt go..

Ranting and raving but with little understanding of what you are talking about. This refit program was signed in 2009- FIVE years before the current hostilities existed. Are you trying to make out the GoI could have predicted this current crisis?

At the time this was signed it made perfect sense and we still don't have a definitive situation. From the article it appears that the upgrade process for this last batch of 5 has run into issues because of a lack of certain parts from Russia, now I'm pretty confident that the IAF HQ/HAL could make an order directly to Russia for these parts and install them in India themselves (the remaining 60 or so AN-32s are to be upgraded in India anyway). The Indian Military are a practical and resourceful bunch, don't start crying just yet...

 

[The Unnamed]

Ranting and raving but with little understanding of what you are talking about. This refit program was signed in 2009- FIVE years before the current hostilities existed. Are you trying to make out the GoI could have predicted this current crisis?

At the time this was signed it made perfect sense and we still don't have a definitive situation. From the article it appears that the upgrade process for this last batch of 5 has run into issues because of a lack of certain parts from Russia, now I'm pretty confident that the IAF HQ/HAL could make an order directly to Russia for these parts and install them in India themselves (the remaining 60 or so AN-32s are to be upgraded in India anyway). The Indian Military are a practical and resourceful bunch, don't start crying just yet...

IAF did not anticipate this ? when did the crrimea standoff start ? werrre there no options then ? absolutely none. i am still in prevention stage.

what choice do we have ? what changes do we have to make due to unavailability of those antonovs ? ccan we make this in russia ?? how long will it take ? how much ?

how much to make it here ? all these studies should have been done by IAF one year back and a plan A and B in place on paper.

today they realise that in this war, they have to take a side and make the other one unhappy hence lose some anyway.

i can sit in my armchair and think that india should have to let go of the ukrainian side in the long term atleast in the russian side of arms and armaments. not just thisantonov..all such items.


do we have a plan ? i am asking a valid question. and I beg my pardon if that ruffles a few feathers.

 

[Abingdonboy]

IAF did not anticipate this ? when did the crrimea standoff start ? werrre there no options then ? absolutely none. i am still in prevention stage.

The deal was signed 5 years back, the Crimea standoff happened earlier this year. No one could have anticipated the current situation 5 years back- impossible.

what choice do we have ? what changes do we have to make due to unavailability of those antonovs ? ccan we make this in russia ?? how long will it take ? how much ?

Antonov is a UKRANIAN company so how can Russia undertake OEM-certified upgrades on a Ukranian plane?

how much to make it here ? all these studies should have been done by IAF one year back and a plan A and B in place on paper.

What could the IAF do? To wait and watch and see how these hostilies affected their ongoing defence deal (if at all) was the best strategy. Jumping to the worst case scenario and being over alarmist would not have helped anyone. And I don't know if you know it or not but this plan seemed to be working initially- the previous batch of AN-32REs flew back to India fully upgraded earlier this year when the crisis was unfolding.

today they realise that in this war, they have to take a side and make the other one unhappy hence lose some anyway.

India has no reason to take sides, this is not a war that concerns them- taking sides would be pointless and is not how India operates on the world stage.

do we have a plan ? i am asking a valid question. and I beg my pardon if that ruffles a few feathers.

I've already outlined what is likely to happen i.e. the work on these last 5 is done in India in addition to the 60+ that are set to be upgraded to the RE standard in India anyway.

 

[nomi007]

why indian are not upgrading them in home with the help of Israel or Russians

 

[Abingdonboy]

why indian are not upgrading them in home with the help of Israel or Russians

It's a Ukranian plane (Antonov) when any country upgrades a plane they will have to consult the OEM unless there are exceptional circumstances that precluded this.

 

[The Unnamed]

The deal was signed 5 years back, the Crimea standoff happened earlier this year. No one could have anticipated the current situation 5 years back- impossible.


Antonov is a UKRANIAN company so how can Russia undertake OEM-certified upgrades on a Ukranian plane?



What could the IAF do? To wait and watch and see how these hostilies affected their ongoing defence deal (if at all) was the best strategy. Jumping to the worst case scenario and being over alarmist would not have helped anyone. And I don't know if you know it or not but this plan seemed to be working initially- the previous batch of AN-32REs flew back to India fully upgraded earlier this year when the crisis was unfolding.


India has no reason to take sides, this is not a war that concerns them- taking sides would be pointless and is not how India operates on the world stage.



I've already outlined what is likely to happen i.e. the work on these last 5 is done in India in addition to the 60+ that are set to be upgraded to the RE standard in India anyway.

5 years obviously they cant. but the last one year they could have done a lot.

why am i saying all this ?

ukraine is officially or unofficially joining nato camp. what ukrain has ? there has to be a lot of ip conflict with russian state companies. state. it cant make it alone. for the forseeable future, ukrainians are not gonna give ukraine to russia cause it has nato behind it. russian soldiers pulled back ? take 2 days to get them back in ukraine border in the next 3-6-12-24 months.

why is it important to know this ? that is why S&Ps and Moody's exist. IAF should not panic today...they need to take the lead here. now they will find a willing MoD, chalk out a long term contingency plan along with mod about all arms from ukraine. anything from there. a realistic plan which is pre planned.

this is stategy dude, IAF's forte.