Speech by a Hazara man in front of Lal Masjid

[That Guy]

That's the thing; when they were killing soviets they were "mujahideen" for us. But now they're evil for bombing Kabul all of a sudden. Most of the anti-soviet mujahideen joined the northern alliance. The Taliban are new guys. Most of the anti-soviet fighting took place in the north. And Hekmatyar whom we supported did the same; bomb Kabul to the ground.

So just as evil, I'm glad we agree on that much. One more thing, they didn't just join the northern alliance to form some sort of national unity, that would be preposterous. Before the Taliban movement began, and after the fall of the communist government, the different mujahideen factions started infighting. The Taliban exist as a result of this. The Taliban were a direct threat to the rule of these warlords, including mahsood, that is why they banded together. In fact, a lot of the same warlords that were accused of atrocities such as mass rape and murder are still working for the current afghan government. Like I said, no such thing as a lesser evil.

We can see how far sighted the deciders of our "national interests" were. Fazlullah is not hosted by Afghan intelligence or RAW. Instead he's hosted by Afghan Taliban, who are the de-facto rulers of Kunar.

If you think that afghan Intel doesn't support the ttp, I suggest that you read up on history. Afghanistan has, since the beginning of Pakistan's birth, hosted anti-Pakistan militants; the ttp is one of their recent projects. In fact, it was Afghanistan that started this proxy war with Pakistan in the 50s.

But regardless, it doesn't matter whom is supporting the ttp, the goal remains the same, win over the local population, and capture/kill fazlullah and his band of child killers.

 

[ghoul]

So just as evil, I'm glad we agree on that much. One more thing, they didn't just join the northern alliance to form some sort of national unity, that would be preposterous. Before the Taliban movement began, and after the fall of the communist government, the different mujahideen factions started infighting. The Taliban exist as a result of this. The Taliban were a direct threat to the rule of these warlords, including mahsood, that is why they banded together. In fact, a lot of the same warlords that were accused of atrocities such as mass rape and murder are still working for the current afghan government. Like I said, no such thing as a lesser evil.


If you think that afghan Intel doesn't support the ttp, I suggest that you read up on history. Afghanistan has, since the beginning of Pakistan's birth, hosted anti-Pakistan militants; the ttp is one of their recent projects. In fact, it was Afghanistan that started this proxy war with Pakistan in the 50s.

But regardless, it doesn't matter whom is supporting the ttp, the goal remains the same, win over the local population, and capture/kill fazlullah and his band of child killers.

1. Taliban are also what is called a "war lord". The "mujahideen" were all warlords to begin with. I don't see any difference. Taliban fighters also committed mass rapes in Mazar-e-Sharif. Not to mention the home invasions of Hazaras and slitting their throats. The first Dasht-e-Lelli massacre was done by the Taliban.

Mujahideen factions started infighting because Hekmatyar was threatened by the fact that Massoud's men-Tajiks- took over Kabul. Under all this Islami rhetoric lies deep seated ethnic tensions and complexes. I wonder how people get fooled by these racial supremacists using Islam as their justification. A munafiq always uses religion as his weapon, and Taliban are munafiqeen to begin with.

2. Afghan intelligence did support Fazlullah, but only for revenge. According to Afghans, Pakistan supports the Taliban. So what's the point?

3. Afghanis were shown their "aukaat" by Z.A.Bhutto, when he closed Afghanistan's access to Karachi. Their economy was impacted badly and their king came back to his feet. Hence they are now thinking an Iranian port of Chabbar would get them out of their dependence on Pakistan.

4. TTP wasn't made by Afghan intelligence. Thousands of "Pakistanis" were fighting in Afghanistan during the 90s, which Pakistani establishment allowed unhindered. These returning fighters soon made the TTP. The TTP in Swat was active as far back as early 90s, when it was known as TNSM. TTP and Afghan Taliban are more or less brothers in arms despite what dogs like Hameed Gul would tell you.

 

[That Guy]

1. Taliban are also what is called a "war lord". The "mujahideen" were all warlords to begin with. I don't see any difference. Taliban fighters also committed mass rapes in Mazar-e-Sharif. Not to mention the home invasions of Hazaras and slitting their throats. The first Dasht-e-Lelli massacre was done by the Taliban.

Mujahideen factions started infighting because Hekmatyar was threatened by the fact that Massoud's men-Tajiks- took over Kabul. Under all this Islami rhetoric lies deep seated ethnic tensions and complexes. I wonder how people get fooled by these racial supremacists using Islam as their justification. A munafiq always uses religion as his weapon, and Taliban are munafiqeen to begin with.

So again, both are equally evil, and this narrative of lesser of two evils is false. You've once again made mu point for me.

2. Afghan intelligence did support Fazlullah, but only for revenge. According to Afghans, Pakistan supports the Taliban. So what's the point?

The Afghans can say whatever they want, it doesn't change historical fact. They started this mess, not Pakistan; the afghans have little justification to complain.

3. Afghanis were shown their "aukaat" by Z.A.Bhutto, when he closed Afghanistan's access to Karachi. Their economy was impacted badly and their king came back to his feet. Hence they are now thinking an Iranian port of Chabbar would get them out of their dependence on Pakistan.

If I recall, it was Ayub Khan that closed off the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan during the 50s. They used naval and air power to keep their economy running. Even if Chabbar opens, Afghanistan will still suffer economically, if Pakistan decides to close the border once again. This was done precisely because Afghanistan insisted on training and supporting terrorists.

4. TTP wasn't made by Afghan intelligence. Thousands of "Pakistanis" were fighting in Afghanistan during the 90s, which Pakistani establishment allowed unhindered. These returning fighters soon made the TTP. The TTP in Swat was active as far back as early 90s, when it was known as TNSM. TTP and Afghan Taliban are more or less brothers in arms despite what dogs like Hameed Gul would tell you.

No where did I say that afghan Intel created the ttp, I said it supported the ttp. You don't have tell me about the history of the group, I'm quite familiar. One would have to be purposefully blind to ignore the connection between the ttp and elements within the afghan top leadership and the NDI; just like the elements of the ISI and the Afghan Taliban.