South Korea President warns North Korea against Provaction

[NiceGuy]

The cause of the war had been laid out in the 1954 Geneva agreement.
We have the term "fall asleep on top of the victory" in Vietnamese you know?

Dude, it's Ngo Dinh Diệm who refused to carry out the Geneva Accords , not HCM.

The Geneva accords also provided for a national election to reunify the country in 1956, but this was rejected by Ngo Dinh Diem’s government and the United States.[38] The U.S government committed itself to contain the spread of communism in Asia beginning in 1950, when they funded 80 percent of the French effort. After Geneva, the U.S become the replacement for France as Republic of Vietnam’s chief sponsor and financial backer, but there was never a written treaty between the U.S. and South Vietnam.

Ho Chi Minh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Every one knew US didn't help VN in 1946 even when HCM dismissed communist party and request help from US.

 

[gambit]

Do you know the Vietnamese term "Viet Minh" stand for what? Viet Minh was not a minority group, Viet Minh was a group of all people who fight for Vietnam. Only Ho's communist party was a part of Viet Minh, nationalists and elite class were part of Viet Minh as well.

Yes, I do, đồng chí. If the Viet Minh was not a minority, then they would not need French support to kill off other Viet nationalist groups.

 

[NiceGuy]

Yes, I do, đồng chí. If the Viet Minh was not a minority, then they would not need French support to kill off other Viet nationalist groups.

I know you love the white @$$, but i'm quite supprise when you love China @$$ too , those men were Traitor bcz they followed ROC , Ngo Dinh Khoi was executed bcz he support Bao Dai king to keep his puppet throne.

In August 1945, Ho's Vietminh seized power and set up a provisional government in the wake of Japan's withdrawal from Vietnam.[34] This move violated a prior agreement between the member parties of the Viet Nam Cach Mang Dong Minh Hoi (Vietnamese Revolutionary League), which included the VNQDD as well as the Vietminh, and Ho was pressured to broaden his government's appeal by including the VNQDD (now led by Nguyen Tuong Tam).[35] The Vietminh announced that they would abolish the mandarin governance system and hold national elections with universal suffrage in two hold. The VNQDD objected to this, fearing that the communists would perpetrate electoral fraud.[36]

After the seizure of power, hundreds of VNQDD members returned from China, only to be killed at the border by the Vietminh.[35] Nevertheless, the VNQDD arrived in northern Vietnam with arms and supplies from the KMT, in addition to its prestige as a Vietnamese nationalist organisation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Nam_Quoc_Dan_Dang

 

[gambit]

I know you love the white @$$, but i'm quite supprise when you love China @$$ too , those men were Traitor bcz they followed ROC , Ngo Dinh Khoi was executed bcz he support Bao Dai king to keep his puppet throne.

Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is funny. Considering how Ho and Sainteny were friends enough that Ho spent time in France being in meetings with French officials negotiating Viet Nam's fate, may be Ho should have been executed as a traitor. This is why I do not consider you a smart person and generally ignore you.

 

[Star√ation]

Yes, I do, đồng chí. If the Viet Minh was not a minority, then they would not need French support to kill off other Viet nationalist groups.

Viet Minh, in full Viet Nam Doc Lap Dong Minh Hoi, English League for the Independence of Vietnam, organization that led the struggle for Vietnamese independence from French rule. The Viet Minh was formed in China in May 1941 by Ho Chi Minh. Although led primarily by Communists, the Viet Minh operated as a national front organization open to persons of various political persuasions.

Viet Minh (Vietnamese revolutionary organization) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Ho did not only used the French to suppress his opponent but basically, he used French Forces to suppress pro-China groups, then he used Chinese Forces to suppress pro-France groups. That was nothing but to prove he was a political genius.
Rather than have a debate about Viet Minh, I suggest you'd better concentrate on issues how Ho did betray his non-communist Viet Minh fellowmen after he took control of North Vietnam in 1954.

 

[gambit]

Viet Minh (Vietnamese revolutionary organization) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Ho did not only used the French to suppress his opponent but basically, he used French Forces to suppress pro-China groups, then he used Chinese Forces to suppress pro-France groups. That was nothing but to prove he was a political genius.
Rather than have a debate about Viet Minh, I suggest you'd better concentrate on issues how Ho did betray his non-communist Viet Minh fellowmen after he took control of North Vietnam in 1954.

It proved he was a murderous back stabbing cutthroat willing to spill Viet blood in the name of communism, specifically Chinese communism, than he cared for Viet Nam.

 

[Star√ation]

That is funny. Considering how Ho and Sainteny were friends enough that Ho spent time in France being in meetings with French officials negotiating Viet Nam's fate, may be Ho should have been executed as a traitor. This is why I do not consider you a smart person and generally ignore you.

Yup, your Vietnamese historical knowledge is very good.
So I ask you one question: Le Chieu Thong is a traitor since he has a deal with Qing Emperor Qianlong.
Was Nguyen Hue a traitor as well, since he sent delegates to China to make a deal for Vietnam's fate with Qianlong too?

Allright, so let's talk about fate. What was the final fate for Vietnam after Ho do that? An independence state, a state free of French.
So far, so good. So who care what Ho did talk with the French. Whether he bowed to the French, lick the French ***, who care?

And what about the fate of Vietnam when it's up to Diem? 500.000 US troops stormed into Vietnam, mass murdered Vietnamese, drop millions tons of Orange Agent upon our head.

Do you know this, this is the fate of 3 million Vietnamese people today thanks to Uncle Sam's efforts. It's 3, 3 millions, THREE MILLIONS.

 

[Star√ation]

It proved he was a murderous back stabbing cutthroat willing to spill Viet blood in the name of communism, specifically Chinese communism, than he cared for Viet Nam.

You did not understand. In the time of war, people are allowed to have certain degree for brutality, inhumanity. Like the U.S with the Iraq and Afghanistan war. When U.S army went to war, no one care how many enemies U.S soldier killed, how they behaved...
But, after the war, such act like the Abu Ghraib incident was unacceptable.
It's the same for Ho in pre-1954 (war time) and post-1954 (peace time in the North Vietnam).

 

[NiceGuy]

That is funny. Considering how Ho and Sainteny were friends enough that Ho spent time in France being in meetings with French officials negotiating Viet Nam's fate, may be Ho should have been executed as a traitor. This is why I do not consider you a smart person and generally ignore you.

Ho govt. was too weak to negotiate with France about Viet Nam's fate. France troop already in S.VN without Ho's invitation.

You did not understand. In the time of war, people are allowed to have certain degree for brutality, inhumanity. Like the U.S with the Iraq and Afghanistan war. When U.S army went to war, no one care how many enemies U.S soldier killed, how they behaved...
But, after the war, such act like the Abu Ghraib incident was unacceptable.
It's the same for Ho in pre-1954 (war time) and post-1954 (peace time in the North Vietnam).

You know, we don't need him to understand, we just need to show him the Truth. His white boss is shaking hand with VN now , and he's just an outdated pawn that no longer in use .

Shaking hand with white boss like FaceBook CEO, we can earn billions $ , but if shaking hand with him, I think we even need to give him money , so he can affort to go to hospital for mental treatmen

 

[gambit]

Yup, your Vietnamese historical knowledge is very good.
So I ask you one question: Le Chieu Thong is a traitor since he has a deal with Qing Emperor Qianlong.
Was Nguyen Hue a traitor as well, since he sent delegates to China to make a deal for Vietnam's fate with Qianlong too?

Yes. According to YOUR convenient logic that anyone who opposed Ho and sought a foreign alliance was a 'traitor'. That mean Ho himself was a traitor since he allied himself with the Chinese and let them ran rampant throughout North Viet Nam, abusing and killing Viets with impunity, just like how he allowed French troops to kill other Viet nationalists with impunity. Only when they were done that independence from France mattered.

Allright, so let's talk about fate. What was the final fate for Vietnam after Ho do that? An independence state, a state free of French.

Was that the only way? Am willing to bet you did not know of the UN trusteeship option proposed by the Americans.

So far, so good. So who care what Ho did talk with the French. Whether he bowed to the French, lick the French ***, who care?

Then why do you care if the Americans were involved?

And what about the fate of Vietnam when it's up to Diem? 500.000 US troops stormed into Vietnam, mass murdered Vietnamese, drop millions tons of Orange Agent upon our head.

Did the US 'stormed' into South Viet Nam just to kill Vietnamese? Or was it for something else?

Do you know this, this is the fate of 3 million Vietnamese people today thanks to Uncle Sam's efforts. It's 3, 3 millions, THREE MILLIONS.

Posting those horrific images will not do away what you wanted us to accept for Ho, which is the excuse that war allowed certain latitude, from slaughtering fellow Viets to carpet bombings. Remember, am going by YOUR arguments.

The monarchy type of rule for Viet Nam was effectively over by WW II's end. At best, the monarchy would have been a figurehead with the Prime Ministership or Premiership being the executive for the country. There was no need to bring in Communist China into Viet Nam but the moment Ho engaged in foreign alliances he opened wide the door for others to do the same. For that, Ho and the Viet Minh shares the equal blame for those horrific images.

 

[NiceGuy]

Yes. According to YOUR convenient logic that anyone who opposed Ho and sought a foreign alliance was a 'traitor'. That mean Ho himself was a traitor since he allied himself with the Chinese and let them ran rampant throughout North Viet Nam, abusing and killing Viets with impunity, just like how he allowed French troops to kill other Viet nationalists with impunity. Only when they were done that independence from France mattered.

ROC invaded VN in 1945, occupied Itu-aba a VN islands untill now , so Viets who follows ROC were Traitors.

HCM made friend with PRC ,there were NO China soldiers in N.VN and No Chinese killing VNese at that time and VN-China were friends untill 1979.

 

[NiceGuy]

Pls read the link below, from page 29 to page 30, and you can see Who offered France troop to station in North VietNam first. It's clearly was a Deal between Chiang Kai-shek and France .

The French troop porposed to Chiang Kai-shek that their relinquish the old French concession in Shanghai and other Chinese ports in exchange for allowing French troop to replace the Chinese forces north of the 16th parallel .After Chiang accepted the offer , Lu Han's army departed early in 1946 . Ho then was faces with prospect of French ruturn to Northern VN, and some of Ho collaborators urged him to order the VMLA to fight. Instead, he decided to try negotiation first and to resort to war only as last resort

America's war in Vietnam: a short ... - Larry H. Addington - Google Books

 

[gambit]

Pls read the link below, from page 29 to page 30, and you can see Who offered France troop to station in North VietNam first. It's clearly was a Deal between Chiang Kai-shek and France .

America's war in Vietnam: a short ... - Larry H. Addington - Google Books

I usually ignore you but this time I am going to educate you a little bit on war.

At the end of any war where there is an unconditional surrender, the losing side must give up authority to the victor in every locations, at home or abroad, when there is an agent from the victor available to take authority. That mean a sergeant from the victor can take authority away from a general of the losing side when necessary.

When Imperial Japan surrendered unconditionally, the Emperor ordered all Japanese units everywhere, at home and abroad, to give up authority to the nearest available Allied agent. If such an agent is not available, then they are authorized to keep their weapons to keep authority to maintain local order until relieved by such an agent. The goal is to maintain order and to have as clean a transition of control from one figure to another as possible. There were no American intention to give Indochina back to France, only that the Allies needed to sent representatives to Japanese controlled areas as soon as possible. That is why for northern Viet Nam, that agent was China in the form of Chiang Kai-shek. For southern Viet Nam, it was the British. So when France managed to wheedle back into southern Viet Nam it was because of a collusion between the British and the French. Then of course France would try to gain access to northern Viet Nam as well but since northern Viet Nam was under Chinese control, France had to try to negotiate with Chiang Kai-shek.

This is not the same thing as one Viet group negotiating with a colonial power in order to gain control of the country. This is why I do not consider you to be a smart person and usually ignore you.

 

[NiceGuy]

I usually ignore you but this time I am going to educate you a little bit on war.

At the end of any war where there is an unconditional surrender, the losing side must give up authority to the victor in every locations, at home or abroad, when there is an agent from the victor available to take authority. That mean a sergeant from the victor can take authority away from a general of the losing side when necessary.

When Imperial Japan surrendered unconditionally, the Emperor ordered all Japanese units everywhere, at home and abroad, to give up authority to the nearest available Allied agent. If such an agent is not available, then they are authorized to keep their weapons to keep authority to maintain local order until relieved by such an agent. The goal is to maintain order and to have as clean a transition of control from one figure to another as possible. There were no American intention to give Indochina back to France, only that the Allies needed to sent representatives to Japanese controlled areas as soon as possible. That is why for northern Viet Nam, that agent was China in the form of Chiang Kai-shek. For southern Viet Nam, it was the British. So when France managed to wheedle back into southern Viet Nam it was because of a collusion between the British and the French. Then of course France would try to gain access to northern Viet Nam as well but since northern Viet Nam was under Chinese control, France had to try to negotiate with Chiang Kai-shek.

This is not the same thing as one Viet group negotiating with a colonial power in order to gain control of the country. This is why I do not consider you to be a smart person and usually ignore you.

1. HCM liberated VN before Japan surrender to Allies, as a free nations VN have the right to decide what to do, we don't need to follow Allies rules. Any forces come to VN without Vn govt. agreement can consider as Invader.

2. Chiang Kai-shek offered France troop to station in North VietNam first, not Ho Chi Minh.

 

[Star√ation]

Ho govt. was too weak to negotiate with France about Viet Nam's fate. France troop already in S.VN without Ho's invitation.

You know, we don't need him to understand, we just need to show him the Truth. His white boss is shaking hand with VN now , and he's just an outdated pawn that no longer in use .

Shaking hand with white boss like FaceBook CEO, we can earn billions $ , but if shaking hand with him, I think we even need to give him money , so he can affort to go to hospital for mental treatmen

Stop yelling about FB's CEO, only kids like you don't see it as a shame. Visiting Vietnam was just merely a trip for his holidays and you guys have your heart thumping like being visited by an Emperor.

BTW, what's the matter with Gambit, the "white boss" and the "pawn"?