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South China Sea Forum

China's February 1948 nine-dash line map

Some of you may be wondering why it is perfectly legal for Taiwanese fishermen to fish southwards within 200 miles from Taiwan's coast, but it is illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish 200-miles westward toward the Spratly Islands.

The reason is due to China's February 1948 nine-dash line map. This Chinese map had been in existence for fifty years and no ASEAN government complained. Also, the Chinese sovereignty map predates 1982 UNCLOS and is grandfathered in under the historical exception.

Thus, it is perfectly legal for the Taiwanese fisherman to fish 164 miles south of Taiwan under UNCLOS.

It is also completely illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish in Chinese waters that trespass the 1948 Chinese nine dash-line map.

The two situations are completely different.

PQsbMXb.png

China's 1947 map depicting the "eleven-dotted-line"
 
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China's February 1948 nine-dash line map

Some of you may be wondering why it is perfectly legal for Taiwanese fishermen to fish southwards within 200 miles from Taiwan's coast, but it is illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish 200-miles westward toward the Spratly Islands.

The reason is due to China's February 1948 nine-dash line map. This Chinese map had been in existence for fifty years and no ASEAN government complained. Also, the Chinese sovereignty map predates 1982 UNCLOS and is grandfathered in under the historical exception.

Thus, it is perfectly legal for the Taiwanese fisherman to fish 164 miles south of Taiwan under UNCLOS.

It is also completely illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish in Chinese waters that trespass the 1948 Chinese nine dash-line map.

The two situations are completely different.

PQsbMXb.png

China's 1947 map depicting the "eleven-dotted-line"

China can produce any fake products if she want, including map, idiot Ah Q ! .:omghaha:
 
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So you were living in cave in USA, I know ... tsk tsk tsk ... :coffee:
China's February 1948 nine-dash line map

Some of you may be wondering why it is perfectly legal for Taiwanese fishermen to fish southwards within 200 miles from Taiwan's coast, but it is illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish 200-miles westward toward the Spratly Islands.

The reason is due to China's February 1948 nine-dash line map. This Chinese map had been in existence for fifty years and no ASEAN government complained. Also, the Chinese sovereignty map predates 1982 UNCLOS and is grandfathered in under the historical exception.

Thus, it is perfectly legal for the Taiwanese fisherman to fish 164 miles south of Taiwan under UNCLOS.

It is also completely illegal for Filipino fishermen to fish in Chinese waters that trespass the 1948 Chinese nine dash-line map.

The two situations are completely different.

China's 1947 map depicting the "eleven-dotted-line"
 
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So you were living in cave in USA, I know ... tsk tsk tsk ... :coffee:

Sir a moron is a moron this chinese think they are the master race i though that thing die out after the Nazi's die out but still some people are stupid enough not to learn from history
 
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Vietnam protests China’s fishing ban in East Sea


Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs on May 15 protested against China’s unilateral implementation of a ban on fishing in the East Sea.

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Luong Thanh Nghi made the protest while answering reporters’ queries on Vietnam’s response to China’s promulgation of the ban on fishing in the East Sea in 2013 from 12.00 AM, May 16 till 12.00 AM, August 1 which encompasses some portions of Vietnam’s waters.

“China’s unilateral implementation of the ban on fishing in the East Sea in 2013 which encompasses some portions of Vietnam’s waters violates Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago, its sovereign rights and jurisdiction over its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,” said Nghi.

He added that the ban goes against the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC).

“Vietnam opposes and declares China’s aforementioned unilateral decision null and void,” the spokesperson stressed.-VNA
Vietnam protests China
 
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India to raise stakes in South China Sea
Saubhadra Chatterji and Jayanth Jacob, Hindustan Times New Delhi, May 15, 2013

Despite Chinese unease about India’s growing energy ties with Vietnam, New Delhi is set to pump in $145.94 million in a gas field in the politically sensitive region.

Though this particular investment is not in an area where the Chinese have a territorial dispute with Vietnam, the Indian move does have strategic implications. The Union cabinet will consider this proposal on Thursday.

The Indian investment is aimed at raising the stake of ONGC’s foreign arm OVL in the joint venture for gas field 06.1 in Nam Con Son basin off Vietnam’s south coast. Currently, OVL owns 45% stake while BP (British Petroleum) has 35% and PetroVietnam owns the remaining 20% share.

With BP exiting from the venture to raise money to offset the loss incurred in the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, OVL is eyeing the controlling stake in the venture. In fact, New Delhi had already used its diplomatic clout with Vietnam to ensure that OVL gets the chance to buy BP’s shares. Under Chinese pressure, Vietnam is keen to have as many foreign companies as possible in its energy sector, most of which are in the contested South China Sea.

Apart from two offshore gas fields, the venture also runs a pipeline and a power project.

In the past, China had raised serious objections to OVL’s participation in oil blocks 127 and 128 in South China Sea off Vietnam coast. While China claimed sovereignty in these areas, Vietnam cited its sovereignty rights over Blocks 127 and 128 according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, 1982.

“This particular gas block is not in a disputed area. We have been there for a while and this project is giving us good returns as well. It makes immense business sense to stay there and no political reasons are attached to the move,” an official, familiar with the development, said.

There are many potentially oil and gas-rich islands on the South China Sea, which are facing territorial disputes.

India to raise stakes in South China Sea - Hindustan Times
 
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Kalayaan island posts fastest vote
By Jaime Laude (The Philippine Star)

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MANILA, Philippines - Voting on Kalayaan island in the hotly contested Spratly archipelago was over in just six hours, the fastest ever recorded in the country’s history.

First Lieutenant Cherryl Tindog, Western Command (Wescom) spokesperson, said voting on the island, which is part of Palawan, started at 7 a.m. yesterday and ended at 1 p.m., with all 288 registered voters casting their ballots.

“The polls on the island started as scheduled and remained peaceful. The provincial Comelec (Commission on Elections) had announced earlier that the election in Kalayaan was expected to finish earlier than the rest of the province,” Tindog said.

Election paraphernalia were flown to the island before the May 13 elections and registered voters based at the Kalayaan’s satellite office in Puerto Princesa flew home to vote yesterday.

Tindog said they were awaiting results of the three-cornered political contest for mayor.

Aside from incumbent Mayor Eugenio Bito-onon, Puerto Princesa City-based businessman Noel Osorio and Rosendo Mantes, a retired military man, are contesting the mayoralty post in the island town located in the middle of territorial conflict among Spratlys-claimant countries, like China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei.

Kalayaan island posts fastest vote | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com
 
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Feel sorry for Philippine fishing-men, but now they know what's "play with China". Unfortunate they were not join with Vietnam and Malaysia in 2009, but want alone to deal with China .

In a disputed reef, Philippines sees face of Chinese domination

Scarborough Shoal, a mecca for fishermen, is claimed by both countries, and the fight over it and other territory in the South China Sea threatens to entangle the U.S.

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Luz Farones Macario, the wife of a fisherman, now sells meat at the market in Masinloc, Philippines, because the Chinese declared a fishing ban at Scarborough Shoal. (Barbara Demick /Los Angeles Times / May 9, 2013)


By Barbara Demick, Los Angeles Times

May 14, 2013, 6:43 p.m.

MASINLOC, Philippines — The fishermen were sailing the azure waters off the Philippine coast when Richard Caneda saw the morning sunlight glinting off a vessel "bigger than the biggest ship in the Philippine navy."

Caneda could see a red Chinese flag. The words "Chinese Maritime Surveillance" were written on the ship's side.

The ship came close enough that Caneda could see crew members on deck making hand gestures as though to shoo away a fly. Caneda, who had moved from the fishing boat to a tiny skiff to haul in nets left out overnight, soon saw a large gun mounted on the ship's deck pivoting directly toward him. A helicopter whirred overhead.

The fishermen fled, leaving their nets and catch behind.

"We were scared. We were angry. We were frustrated. That is our livelihood," Caneda, 34, a now-unemployed father of three who lives in a shantytown in Masinloc, said of the November encounter.

It happened near the reef known as Scarborough Shoal, 130 miles off the coast of the Philippines' largest island, Luzon, and barely 200 miles from Manila, the Philippine capital. Claimed by both China and the Philippines, the mostly underwater reef has come to represent the dangers of Chinese expansionism.

"Scarborough today — tomorrow the world," read banners at an anti-China demonstration last year in Manila.

In its quest to become a maritime power and to tap potential undersea oil and gas reserves, China is asserting sovereignty over various islands, rocks and reefs dangerously close to the shores of Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines.

Beijing and Taipei, Taiwan, condemned the Philippines on Friday for the shooting death of an unarmed 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman in the disputed waters of the South China Sea. Philippine authorities said a coast guard ship fired on the Taiwanese vessel a day earlier in an area to the north of Luzon, but only in an attempt to disable the engine to prevent being rammed.

On Wednesday, the Philippines issued an official apology in a response to a midnight deadline set by Taiwan, which had threatened economic retaliation.

Along with Japan's Senkaku islands (known as Diaoyu to the Chinese), the Scarborough Shoal is the area's most hotly contested territory, the scene of dozens of too-close calls during the last year.

For more than a year, Chinese ships have patrolled Scarborough Shoal, chasing away Philippine fisherman and maintaining what Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario calls "a de facto occupation."

Despite pledges of neutrality from Washington, the dispute could easily entangle the United States, resurrecting Cold War alliances and putting to the test the Obama administration's so-called pivot toward Asia.

For most of the 20th century, the U.S. Navy had its largest overseas base at nearby Subic Bay in the Philippines, and the Navy used to conduct firing exercises at Scarborough Shoal. Feeling that the Americans had worn out their welcome, Manila asked the Navy to leave in 1992. But last year, a few U.S. vessels were readmitted on a rotating basis, and Filipinos increasingly are expressing regret about the American departure.

"If the Americans were still at Subic Bay, the Chinese wouldn't dare do this to us," Caneda said.

In January, the Philippines asked a United Nations tribunal to determine the status of the reef. But the process could take years, and China has indicated it will not abide by the decision.

In the meantime, the Philippines finds itself outgunned, outmaneuvered and outspent. The Chinese have run a rope across the mouth of a lagoon inside the triangular-shaped shoal, where Filipinos have fished for generations, and in recent weeks have declared a 15-mile fishing ban around the reef.

The dispute has devastated the fragile economy of the fishing communities in coastal Luzon. The shoal used to attract so many fishing boats that at night with their lights shining, it looked like an illuminated city at sea.

Fishermen say the shoal was where they went to get the biggest and best fish: Spanish mackerel, Pacific cod, tuna and lapu lapu, a giant grouper. A 25-man ship could bring back $17,000 worth of fish in a single trip.

"The income from fishing is cut in half," said Julius Sumaling, a fishing boat captain who says it's not worth the gas anymore to go out with his ship, the San Pedro, now docked south of Masinloc, a town of 51,000 on the coast.

Joseph Morate, who sells squid at the main market in Masinloc, said he took his 15-year-old daughter out of school because he could no longer afford the $4 a day in transportation costs and needed her to baby-sit younger children.

"All I have to sell is squid because the Chinese are chasing us away from the quality fish," Morate said.

At the main market, many of the white tile tables where fish used to be displayed are now mostly empty or used by vendors selling meat.

Luz Farones Macario, whose husband runs one of the biggest fishing fleets in Masinloc, with three large boats, now sells frozen chicken legs, ham and sausage.

"All of these aisles were full of fish. Now, no more," she said. "Why are the Chinese being so selfish when there is so much fish in the sea?"

According to Filipinos, the generations of fishing at the shoal were interrupted only when the reef was used as a firing range. It is more than 500 miles from the southern tip of China's southernmost island, Hainan.

Beijing, however, has produced records showing that the territory was explored and charted as far back as 1279 by the 13th century astronomer Guo Shoujing, who surveyed the region for the emperor Kublai Khan.

China has produced a U-shaped map that gives it sovereignty over almost all the South China Sea up to the borders of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia.

Shen Dingli, an international relations expert at Shanghai's Fudan University, says the Philippines did not actively assert its claim to the shoal until 1992.

"For a long time, China has claimed all rocks in the entire South China Sea," Shen said, speaking at an international conference last week in Seoul. "Prior to 1992, the Philippines made no official disagreement, so we view it as a virtual admission of China's claim."

The Chinese have also denied using force, saying the ships it dispatches belong only to China Marine Surveillance and the Fisheries Law Enforcement Command, civilian agencies that are not supposed to carry weapons. Photographs in Chinese state media, however, clearly show some of the marine surveillance ships with guns mounted on their decks.

Experts in maritime law say part of the issue is that China is a much older country than its neighbors, with a more meticulous system of record-keeping.

"The Philippines didn't even have a central government until Spanish colonial times," said Carlyle Thayer, professor emeritus at the Australian Defense Force Academy. "The local Malay people didn't keep records the way the Chinese did.

"But the fact that you have records doesn't extinguish the rights of the native people," Thayer said.

The name Scarborough comes from a boat that was shipwrecked there in 1784. Filipinos also call it the Bajo de Masinloc — a name that dates to Spanish colonial times — while the Chinese have named it Huangyan, or "Yellow Rock."

By many accounts, the reef was a favorite fishing spot for numerous groups for years, and relations were friendly enough that fishermen often bartered goods — Chinese liquor and instant noodles for Philippine mangoes and papaya.

The current spat dates to April 11, 2012, when Chinese fishermen were accused of poaching giant clams and sharks, protected species. The Philippines sent a naval ship to arrest the Chinese fishermen, who in turn radioed for help from China Marine Surveillance.

After a two-month standoff, a deal was brokered by the United States for both sides to withdraw from the shoal.

The Chinese never left.

In a disputed reef, Philippines sees face of Chinese domination - latimes.com
 
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^ the Philippines need to booster their defenses, especially in regard to surface ship forces. They need to build bigger marine surveillance ships to counter PRC threat. Japan can be a big help in this area. The Philippines should buy coastal defense systems, preferably from Russia since the West did not put emphasis in this area. Missile ships have to be purchase, air force need more capable planes and anti-ship missiles.

All of these need to be done fast, the enemy is at the gate now. That Scarborough Reefs is just few hundred km away from Subic Port. That's why China disregarded international law to capture the reefs. Their main target is to set up a radar base to monitor this Port.
 
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^ the Philippines need to booster their defenses, especially in regard to surface ship forces. They need to build bigger marine surveillance ships to counter PRC threat. Japan can be a big help in this area. The Philippines should buy coastal defense systems, preferably from Russia since the West did not put emphasis in this area. Missile ships have to be purchase, air force need more capable planes and anti-ship missiles.

All of these need to be done fast, the enemy is at the gate now. That Scarborough Reefs is just few hundred km away from Subic Port. That's why China disregarded international law to capture the reefs. Their main target is to set up a radar base to monitor this Port.

Don't worry our ships from Japan will becoming with our planes from Korea and Italy as well and after that 3 years from now our new ship from Korea and our new helicopters from Italy so its ok let them have a few ours of fun but as the filipino saying goes may araw rin sila!
 
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Don't worry our ships from Japan will becoming with our planes from Korea and Italy as well and after that 3 years from now our new ship from Korea and our new helicopters from Italy so its ok let them have a few ours of fun but as the filipino saying goes may araw rin sila!
I hope that your government pull enough political courage into defense. It has been a concern from some of my Filipino's friends that corruptions might hinder money for national security.

Btw, have you thought about coastal defense missiles? Those will be very effective weapons against off-shore attacks from You-Know-Who.
 
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Taiwanese air power and its effect on South China Sea

Taiwan has Asia's second-largest air force (after China)

The Taiwanese Air Force has 326 fourth-generation fighters, which is larger than the Japanese Air Force with 273 fourth-generation fighters.

If you ask me, "how did Taiwan end up with such a large air force?" My best guess is that the United States pressures Taiwan to keep buying military equipment. Taiwan has a large forex and relatively low national debt (42% of GDP). The United States expects purchases of roughly $10 billion every three years.

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Taiwanese pilots (including F-16) have trained at Luke Air Force base in Arizona for 55 years

Luke Air Force Base - Fact Sheet (Printable) : 56TH OPERATIONS GROUP

"Training foreign pilots is not new to Luke Air Force Base. The first foreign students to train in the "Valley of the Sun" were Chinese pilots during World War II. In February 1942, the first Chinese pilots were trained in the P-40 Warhawk, P-47 Thunderbolt and eventually the P-51 Mustang. These pilots had a major impact in the defense of China. Many of these pilots became members of a Taiwan squadron designated 21st Fighter Squadron "Blackjacks." The Blackjacks were one of the most successful squadrons during the war and were unmatched in their aerial victories against Japanese forces. Concurrently, the U.S. 21st Fighter Squadron was in the China theater attacking Japanese forces with the P-40 Warhawk and P-51 Mustang. It is in recognition of the exploits of both of these squadrons that the 21st Fighter Squadron "Gamblers" was activated at Luke 21st Fighter Squadron began training Taiwan pilots in February 1997, 55 years to the month that the first Chinese pilots began training here at Luke."

F-16 Air Forces - United States of America :: F-16.net

dnof3SW.jpg

Two F-16A Block 20 aircraft on a training mission over the Arizonan desert, seen from the backseat of an F-16B Block 20. These aircraft are operated by the 21st FS 'Gamblers' at Luke AFB on behalf of the Republic of China and are used to train RoCAF pilots [ROCAF photo]

"Foreign Air Forces

Two F-16A block 20 aircraft on a training mission over the Arizonan desert, seen from the backseat of an F-16B Block 20. These aircraft are operated by the 21st FS 'Gamblers' at Luke AFB on behalf of the Republic of China and are used to train RoCAF pilots

Luke AFB is also host to a number of (semi-)permanent detachments from foreign airforces. These detachments provide training for F-16 pilots from their respective airforces, working in close cooperation with USAF instructors and profiting from the training facilities at Luke. More permanent detachments often get a dedicated USAF squadron designation. The first country to do so was Singapore. In the early nineties, the RSAF based a number of ex-Thunderbirds aircraft at Luke AFB for training purposes. Ever since then, the RSAF has maintained a permanent detachment at Luke, which uses the 425th FS "Black Widows" designation. Currenty, this detachment is equipped with the latest block 52 aircraft. The second country to receive pilot training was Taiwan. A number of Taiwanese F-16 block 20 aircraft were dispatched to the 21st FS "Gamblers" at Luke AFB for this purpose. Other international customers are trained at the Air National Guard facilities at Tucson. Singapore also maintains a detachment with the ACC's 27th FW at Cannon AFB, New Mexico."

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Taiwan owns Taiping Island and can affect Vietnamese coast or western Philippines

Taiwan owns the largest island (e.g. Taiping Island) and airfield in the South China Sea.

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Taiwan's South China Sea Taiping Island runway

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A long time ago, Taiwan was the most industrialized of the South China Sea claimants and claimed Taiping Island first.

Taiwan is an old industrialized country. Taiwan's nominal per-capita GDP exceeded Portugal's in 2012. By 2014, according to the IMF, Taiwan's nominal per-capita GDP will exceed Greece.

Taiping Island | Wikipedia

"Taiping Island is the largest of the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea,[1] and the only one where fresh water is available.[citation needed] The island is elliptical in shape being 1.4 km in length and 0.4 km in width. It is part of the Tizard Bank (Zheng He Reefs; 鄭和群礁), one of seven reefs in the Spratly Islands near the centre of the South China Sea. The Taiping Island Airport is the most prominent artificial feature on the island.

The island is administered by the Republic of China (Taiwan), as part of Cijin, Kaohsiung. It is also claimed by the People's Republic of China, the Philippines and Vietnam. The distance from Kaohsiung to Taiping Island is about 1,600 km (990 mi). The nearby Zhongzhou Reef is also under the possession of the ROC."
 
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