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South China Sea Forum

As always Indonesia is call upon to fix the problems :cool:. While the rest of "them" bickers like old fishwives.
China closer to South China Sea Code of Conduct, Marty says
Bagus BT Saragih, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Headlines | Fri, May 03 2013, 9:43 AM

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Money talks: China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi (right) addresses the press in Jakarta on Thursday, while Coordinating Economic Minister Hatta Rajasa looks on. (JP/R. Berto Wedhatama)

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi met with his Indonesian counterpart Marty Natalegawa in Jakarta on Thursday as part of his six-day ASEAN tour, a move believed to be part of China’s attempt to regain its diplomatic grip within the Southeast Asian grouping.

At the joint press conference held after the meeting, Marty applauded his Chinese counterpart saying the Asian superpower had shown indication that it agreed to pursue a peaceful solution to the territorial disputes in the resource-rich South China Sea.

“Mr. Wang Yi and I have just agreed to push the discussion of the South China Sea CoC [Code of Conduct] through the ASEAN-China Working Group mechanism,” Marty said.

Wang, echoed Marty’s statement, saying China would always support efforts to settle disputes in the South China Sea through consultation with relevant countries.

“China will do its best to maintain peace and stability in the area. This will not change,” he said. “China’s relationship with Indonesia is one of our most important international ties because it covers very wide fields.”

Indonesia, the biggest economy in Southeast Asia, was the second country visited by Wang after Thailand in this first foreign trip since his appointment in March. His next destinations are Singapore and Brunei Darussalam.

Wang’s decision to visit ASEAN countries first led analysts to posit that China is concerned with renewing its relationship with Southeast Asian nations, particularly with influential powers like Indonesia.

Wang’s tour to ASEAN countries resembled the so-called “shuttle diplomacy” carried out by Marty, immediately after the ASEAN Ministerial Meeting in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, in July 2012, failed to issue a joint communiqué for the first time in the grouping’s 45-year history.

Then ASEAN’s chair, Cambodia, which was considered by many as an ally to China, refused to have the South China Sea issue mentioned in the communiqué.

Marty then volunteered to be a troubleshooter by visiting his counterparts in the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia and Singapore, which resulted in ASEAN’s Six-Point Principles on the South China Sea.

Wang’s current trip was made following the ASEAN 22nd summit in Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei Darussalam, last month, which many considered to be a success particularly on the issue of the territorial disputes.

Observers said ASEAN managed to come together in the summit, and moved on from the Phnom Penh fiasco.

Hikmahanto Juwana, an international law expert from the University of Indonesia, said China would always rely on Indonesia to deal with ASEAN.

“Indonesia has always been important to China, not only because it is the biggest economy in the region, but also because Indonesia is not one of the South China Sea claimants. Its power and neutrality has always made all relevant parties to give attention to any of Indonesia’s moves,” Hikmahanto said.

Later on Thursday, Wang also held a meeting with Coordinating Economic Minister Hatta Rajasa. The two discussed plans to expand trade and investment between the two countries.

According to the Trade Ministry, Indonesia-China trade volume in 2012 reached US$51 billion with a deficit of $7.7 billion at the Indonesian side. The volume represented a 21.4 percent increase from $49 billion in 2011.

In the conference, Wang also disclosed about China’s plan to open a consular service in Denpasar, Bali.
 
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Its applaud-able that the Philippines chose the continuity of its foreign policy prefers diplomacy to forward military policy. It is to the best interest of affected parties in the South China Sea to maintain the freedom of navigation at the same time respect the territorial waters of affected nations as proscribed by UNCLOS.
I agree. Also, territorial claims are clearly defined under International Law.

Both Philippines and China are signatory to the law. So, let the court determine what rightfully belongs to each country.:tup:
 
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I hope Philippines gains more traction in this case. Beijing's urgent move to visit four ASEAN countries proves that they are shaking their boots. After all, they know China will lose in a fair court. No amount of rationale can explain away blatant robbery.
 
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I hope Philippines gains more traction in this case. Beijing's urgent move to visit four ASEAN countries proves that they are shaking their boots. After all, they know China will lose in a fair court. No amount of rationale can explain away blatant robbery.
When someone refuses to go to court, it is because they are either guilty, or their case is weak or just fiction
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Well even a five year old child can easily see China's claim as ridiculous. They know they will embarrass themselves trying to defend their ludicrous nine-dash idiot line claim
 
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ASEAN Summit in Brunei Finds More Common Ground
By Luke Hunt

May 2, 2013

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At the latest summit of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) in Brunei leaders provided a refreshing change to the infighting and bickering which characterized the 12 months since April 2012 when Cambodia – with some dabbling from China – was host.

Divisions remained, however, and agreements on touchy subjects like how to handle overlapping claims and best deal with Beijing in the South China Sea were as elusive as ever.

Beijing could not resist having another shot at The Philippines, issuing a critical statement on Manila’s push for an international verdict on disputed islands and demanding the withdrawal of all personnel and closure of facilities from islands that it said Manila was occupying.

According to Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario, ASEAN is ready to deal with China as a bloc on the issue. However, China wants bilateral negotiations with ASEAN members only and refuses to have the dispute heard in an international court.

“I think the next step belongs to China,” del Rosario said at a post ASEAN briefing.

Despite the territorial disputes, trade between ASEAN countries and China continues to boom and in Southeast Asia’s favor with Beijing running a trade deficit of $23 billion in 2012, up 37 percent from the previous year. This in itself is putting pressure on ASEAN leaders to find a peaceful solution to the diplomatic and sometimes military standoffs in the South China Sea.

Once again, there was little insight offered on what shape the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) might take once it is launched at the end of 2015, although talk of seamless trade among the ten members and their trading partners gave some meaningful food for thought. Whatever shape the AEC ultimately takes, it is becoming increasingly obvious that the group will belong to big business leaders with the right political connections who can take advantage of removing tariffs and laws that impede cross-border traffic.

Leaders insisted the launch of the AEC was on schedule with 77 percent of the work now done. They declared that May 9 will be the start date for negotiations on a vast free trade area with key partners China, India, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

There was also push towards admitting East Timor as the trading bloc’s 11th member, although ASEAN Secretary General Le Luong Minh indicated this is still some time off.

By Summit’s end the relief was palpable that ASEAN had managed to avoid a repeat of last year’s public squabbling and put on a business-like performance with a unified front to the 600 million people who make up the bloc. If nothing else, this must give organizers something to smile about.

ASEAN Summit in Brunei Finds More Common Ground | ASEAN Beat




Asean upbeat on sea code
But PH to pursue case vs China filed in UN tribunal
By TJ A. Burgonio
Philippine Daily Inquirer

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BANDAR SERI BEGAWAN—President Aquino emerged from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) summit on Thursday upbeat about the prospects of a maritime code of conduct with China to minimize the risk of conflict in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

But even with an Asean agreement to engage China in talks for good behavior at sea, Aquino has made it clear that Manila is not going to withdraw its arbitration case in the United Nations even if Beijing withdraws its surveillance ships from Philippine territory in the West Philippine Sea.

A code of conduct is intended to prevent conflicting territorial claims in the sea from erupting into violence, but the case the Aquino administration has brought to the UN arbitral tribunal aims to force China to recognize the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone.

Everybody happy

Aquino said the Philippines filed the notification and claim in the United Nations precisely to clarify its maritime borders with China under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).

Aquino and other Asean leaders adjourned the two-day summit on Thursday with an agreement to engage China in talks for a code of conduct, a complete departure from last year’s summits in Phnom Penh.

“We’re very happy. The President was very happy. The delegation was very happy,” said Cabinet Secretary Rene Almendras, who joined the President, Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario and Trade Secretary Gregory Domingo at the leaders’ Retreat Session.

After the session at the palatial Prime Minister’s Office (PMO), the Philippine officials came away with the impression that Asean was “definitely united,” Almendras said in a chance interview before the presidential delegation motored to the airport for the flight back to Manila.

“It was a very good meeting. It was very productive,” he said inside the cavernous stone and marble building Brunei’s Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah had ordered built for the annual two-day summit. “You realize that the effectivity of Asean is based on its centrality.”

Engaging China

Bolkiah, chairman of Asean this year, said the region’s leaders looked forward to a “continued engagement” with China in implementing the 2002 Declaration of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) between Asean and China.

“We tasked our ministers to continue to work actively with China on the way forward for the early conclusion of a code of conduct in the South China Sea on the basis of consensus,” he said in a press conference, reading from a prepared statement.

Asean hoped to forge a binding code of conduct with China to replace the DOC, which has failed to stop clashes in the disputed waters. China has balked at this, arguing the time is not ripe yet and preferring to deal with individual claimants.

The Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam, as well as China and Taiwan have overlapping claims over islands, atolls and islets in the West Philippine Sea believed to be sitting atop vast oil and gas reserves.

The sea is also home to sea lanes through which a third of global trade passes every year.

Consensus

“The consensus is that Asean would move forward and try to work with China to make it happen,” Del Rosario said in an interview.

Thailand, which has the role of Asean coordinator with China, proposed a meeting among Asean foreign ministers ahead of an Asean-China meeting expected in August to forge solidarity on the code of conduct, Del Rosario said.

“I think there is a meeting between Asean and China sometime in the second half [of the year]. What Thailand has done is that they called a meeting prior to that among Asean foreign ministers so we can establish solidarity in approaching that problem,” Del Rosario said.

According to Del Rosario, the Asean leaders tackled the “expeditious conclusion of the code of conduct,” and had a discussion “on getting everyone in accord with the full implementation of the DOC.”

Asean endured unprecedented infighting last year as the Philippines and Vietnam failed to persuade the bloc to send a united message of concern to China.

Cambodia, a close China ally that held the rotating chair of Asean in 2012, blocked the efforts of the Philippines and Vietnam.

Pleased

Philippine President Benigno Aquino said after Wednesday’s dinner he was pleased Brunei’s Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah had made the South China Sea issue a top priority at the summit, and that Asean had rebuilt some unity on the issue.

“Everybody is interested in having a peaceful resolution and also in voicing … concern that there have been increasing disputes,” Aquino told reporters.

“We should really be thankful that the whole of the Asean is willing to discuss this instead of putting it on the backburner.”

In last year’s meetings in Phnom Penh, Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen reportedly stalled moves by the leaders of the claimant-nations to get the conflict mentioned in a postsummit joint statement.

Aquino rebuked Hun Sen in the second meeting in Phnom Penh last year for claiming that the regional bloc had reached a consensus against internationalizing the issue.

Going nowhere

Analysts said Asean’s calls for China to agree on a legally binding code of conduct for the sea would likely lead nowhere.
Asean and China first agreed to work on a code in 2002, but the Asian economic superpower has since refused to discuss it further.

“China was never enthusiastic about a code of conduct, as it does not want to sign an agreement that will constrain its sovereignty-building activities,” Ian Storey, a senior fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, said.

But Aquino said he was happy that Asean leaders had at least united in trying to ensure the disputes over territory in the sea did not “become bloody.”

“So there is unity of purpose and one can always be hopeful that will lead to something more concrete,” he said.

The Philippines and China remain in a standoff at Panatag Shoal (Scarborough Shoal) off Zambales province, with Beijing keeping allegedly armed vessels in the area despite an agreement last June for the two countries to withdraw their ships to ease tensions in the disputed waters.

With China insisting on claiming the area within the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone, Manila brought the dispute to the United Nations last month for arbitration.

No case withdrawal

On Wednesday, Mr. Aquino told reporters that the Philippines will not drop its case against China even if Beijing pulls out its surveillance ships from Panatag Shoal.

“That can’t be withdrawn,” Mr. Aquino said. Any deal for withdrawal will be susceptible to a “change in mood” later on, he said.
The President stressed that Manila filed the case in the United Nations to clarify its borders with China under the Unclos.

“What we’re after here is clarification for both parties,” he said. “I don’t want to heighten the tension by demanding that they respond to this. This is a process. We have to go to all the avenues open for all of us to finally come up with something that is definitive: what are your entitlements, what are your obligations.”

Manila filed the case, asking the United Nations to compel Beijing to respect the Philippines’ rights to exclusively explore and exploit resources within its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf, as provided for in the Unclos.

The Philippines ratified the Unclos in 1984 and China in 1996. But the two countries have conflicting interpretations of the provisions, especially on the scope of the 22-kilometer exclusive economic zone.—With a report from AFP
 
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As always Indonesia is call upon to fix the problems :cool:. While the rest of "them" bickers like old fishwives.
Either you are naive or blind, probably both. Chinese FM repeated at the meeting the f... BS: the SC Sea is theirs and indisputed. I wonder why are you so proud of Indonesia? Don´t you see that China just fools you?
 
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Action on the ground speaks louder! Gazprom along with PetroVietnam will tap the gas deposits in the SC Sea. And for some internet Chinese here on the forum, who are interested, Gazprom will drill within your 9-dash-line.



Gazprom to Drill Vietnam Offshore Gas in June


16:33 18/04/2013
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MOSCOW, April 18 (RIA Novosti) – Russian energy giant Gazprom plans to start gas production off Vietnam’s coast in June, Gazprom Deputy CEO Vitaly Markelov said on Thursday.

In 2012, Gazprom received stakes in developing Blocks 05-2 and 05-3 in the southeastern part of the South China Sea. Two gas condensate fields have been opened in the blocks, Moc Tinh (05-3) and Hai Tchach (05-2 and 05-3) with reserves estimated at 55.6 billion cubic meters of gas and 25 million tons of gas condensate.

The deposits are located some 320 km from the Vung Tau coast area. The Nam Con Son underwater gas pipeline is in close proximity to the blocks. The deposits are 100-135 meters deep water.

“It is planned to build 16 exploitation wells to develop the deposits. Currently, the project is at the deposit development infrastructure stage. Work continues to build the fourth exploitation well at the WHP-MT1 extracting platform (the Moc Tinh deposit).

Gas extraction is expected to start in June 2013,” Markelov told Gazprom magazine.
 
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Either you are naive or blind, probably both. Chinese FM repeated at the meeting the f... BS: the SC Sea is theirs and indisputed. I wonder why are you so proud of Indonesia? Don´t you see that China just fools you?

How are we being fooled exactly? Care to explain how :) What have you done exactly to remedy the issues in hand. At least Indonesia done something to get the Chinese side to agree on a code of conduct.
 
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When someone refuses to go to court, it is because they are either guilty, or their case is weak or just fiction
n71ua1.gif


Well even a five year old child can easily see China's claim as ridiculous. They know they will embarrass themselves trying to defend their ludicrous nine-dash idiot line claim

Absolutely. In a court of law, a party that fails to attend court will be defeated , in addition it is considered contempt. The Philippines maintains the moral high ground in this situation and holds on to its position by shear principle. This is the very reason why it has received unprecedented international support from the United States, the European Union as well as most of ASEAN and why China has received condemnation.
 
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How are we being fooled exactly? Care to explain how :) What have you done exactly to remedy the issues in hand. At least Indonesia done something to get the Chinese side to agree on a code of conduct.
Don´t you see that China plays the classical game "devide and conquer"? Why did you fail to see the trap that all are only cheap rhetorics of China on new "code of conduct", on peaceful negotiation, on everything just to fool the audience?

Open your eyes! Look at the current situation on Japan, Philippines and India. Looks as if China wants to recognise Vietnamese claim in the SC Sea, and takes more aggressive moves on others as compensation. Take care on your country Indonesia. You will be the next victim!
 
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Don´t you see that China plays the classical game "devide and conquer"? Why did you fail to see the trap that all are only cheap rhetorics of China on new "code of conduct", on peaceful negotiation, on everything just to fool the audience?

Open your eyes! Look at the current situation on Japan, Philippines and India. Looks as if China wants to recognise Vietnamese claim in the SC Sea, and takes more aggressive moves on others as compensation. Take care on your country Indonesia. You will be the next victim!

You should write this down & be a novelist :D. Not everything someone do is cloak&dagger. All side prefer a peaceful negotiation & all side want to benefit from the negotiation. Such as drilling right, fishing right & etc.

You are Fear mongering right now, can't you present more realistic claim like cornering the ASEAN market with newly caught fish from SCS or the SCS oil will be monopolized by China. Those are more realistic claim than what you're offering. What insurance does the Chinese will try to take Indonesia? Our trade exceed $51 billions. It won't be on their best interest to tick us off, think about it, we are currently a Neutral power they can count on, but if they decide to "take us" instead of a Neutral power they will get a Hostile one & even if they try to "make us their next victim" we can unilaterally increase tariff on them, hold any cargoes bound to China or we can ask the US to aid us against the Chinese & many more. Don't try the first & the second one though, it will cause horrendous damage to the Economy.
 
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Either you are naive or blind, probably both. Chinese FM repeated at the meeting the f... BS: the SC Sea is theirs and indisputed. I wonder why are you so proud of Indonesia? Don´t you see that China just fools you?
Well, China was want fool all of us about SCS, for sure. But Would Indonesia be fool. I don't think so, let wait...
How are we being fooled exactly? Care to explain how :) What have you done exactly to remedy the issues in hand. At least Indonesia done something to get the Chinese side to agree on a code of conduct.
Everyone has their own way.
Maybe You didn't see, but Vietnam was most trying side to solve SCS issue. We were the side has disputed with China more than any country. If Vietnam was stepped back when China was pressing us, so why did they must have negotiation with us (ASEAN) when they can gain almost things they claim !?
Even when Filippine has US as ally, they still must step back at first because they know they will loses if they played hard with China. They didn't know about China and not prepared anything to face with this wolf.
Don´t you see that China plays the classical game "devide and conquer"? Why did you fail to see the trap that all are only cheap rhetorics of China on new "code of conduct", on peaceful negotiation, on everything just to fool the audience?

Open your eyes! Look at the current situation on Japan, Philippines and India. Looks as if China wants to recognise Vietnamese claim in the SC Sea, and takes more aggressive moves on others as compensation. Take care on your country Indonesia. You will be the next victim!
China want play that game for sure, they also want press us to accept their claims and win this battle but not shoot a bullet.
We also like that.

Both side want peace but has different mean, their aggressive and threaten to make us accept their claims, so just claim and to unite.
 
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HongWu : what kind of Chinese redneck trash are you?

Seriously, you're no better than American neo-con trash or Japanese ``we never invaded anyone during WW2`` trash... go back to your cave.

He has been banned many times since I known this forums. The reasons for him always are racist words or comments that against humanity. If you read more comments of him you will recognize he is a new fascist!
 
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Don´t you see that China plays the classical game "devide and conquer"? Why did you fail to see the trap that all are only cheap rhetorics of China on new "code of conduct", on peaceful negotiation, on everything just to fool the audience?

Open your eyes! Look at the current situation on Japan, Philippines and India. Looks as if China wants to recognise Vietnamese claim in the SC Sea, and takes more aggressive moves on others as compensation. Take care on your country Indonesia. You will be the next victim!

@Viet+: don't care too much for this guy Reashot Xigwin he is chinese living in Indoneseia.
 
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Our trade exceed $51 billions. It won't be on their best interest to tick us off, think about it, we are currently a Neutral power they can count on, but if they decide to "take us" instead of a Neutral power they will get a Hostile one & even if they try to "make us their next victim" we can unilaterally increase tariff on them, hold any cargoes bound to China or we can ask the US to aid us against the Chinese & many more. Don't try the first & the second one though, it will cause horrendous damage to the Economy.
what can u do if US refuse to aid u against China,and even US aid Aussie to invade u instead ?

Dont hope China can aid u against US-Aussie.
 
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