South China Sea Forum

[TaiShang]

Friendly wash.

 

[cirr]

Friendly wash.

New long-range maritime surveillance plane could cover all of S China Sea: report

2017-06-22 09:16

Global Times Editor: Li Yan

The first medium-to-long-range maritime-surveillance plane under the Chinese State Oceanic Administration has started operation at the South China Sea Branch of the government department.

The B-5002 plane, whose wingspan is about 30 meters, is the biggest and fastest maritime-monitoring plane in China. It also holds the record for the longest distance in flight among all Chinese maritime-monitoring planes, which theoretically could cover the whole South China Sea, China Ocean News reported Tuesday.

According to the report, the plane will perform monitoring tasks in a variety of areas including maritime environment protection, sea island exploitation and maritime rights maintenance as well as maritime research and rescue.

The aircraft's operation will effectively enlarge the scope of China's maritime and aviation law enforcement, promoting law enforcement in the South China Sea to a higher standard, the report said.

The plane is manufactured by the AVIC Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Company LTD, modeled after the China-made Xinzhou-60 plane. It is equipped with some advanced hardware and software with a total value of nearly 100 million yuan ($14.6 million). It went into service on Monday.

http://www.ecns.cn/2017/06-22/262429.shtml

South China Sea research data to be digitized

2017-06-22 09:00

Global Times Editor: Li Yan

Photo shows a piece of rock sample from the seabed of South China Sea on April 2, 2017. (Photo/Xinhua)

China launched a project on Wednesday to digitize the information collected from the country's scientific research and investigations in the South China Sea, including the islands and reefs in the region.

The South China Sea Institute of Oceanography under the Chinese Academy of Sciences, announced the project at a conference in South China's Guangdong Province, the China News Service reported.

The project demonstrates China's actual sovereignty over this region, said Liu Feng, a Hainan-based expert on the South China Sea.

"Scientific research is also a method, besides political and economic measures, to safeguard our rights and interests in the region," Liu said.

The project will collect and digitize information including hydrometeorological data, marine chemical data and geologic-environmental data of the South China Sea and its affiliated islands and coral reefs, said the China News Service report.

It added that a comprehensive digital database will be built, and a series of books will be published when the project is finished.

Liu noted that "the project can compile all of our previous work into a system, which will support further research in the South China Sea."

A total of 193 research fellows and more than 10 Chinese research institutes and universities will take part in the project.

http://www.ecns.cn/2017/06-22/262411.shtml

 

[xiao qi]

I think you should read history from a neutral source, Chinese sources were leaked by dissidents to US and it's a more logical number 6000-9000 Chinese troops killed by guerrilla warfare. China also learnt from US not to fight in the jungles but concentrate in the urban areas. Bulk of Vietnamese forces were in Hanoi for defense, and Cambodia, low possibility to inflict heavy damage on China. The Vietnamese did not dare face China head on, they were counting on Chinese withdrawal. We were already reaching the gates of Hanoi literally, but the message was sent, and we withdrew to the relief of Vietnam. I don't think China would have attacked Hanoi, if they did, the casualties would be immense. If we did attack Hanoi, then it is possible for Chinese casualties to reach that high. Else, I think 6k - 9k seems logical and Vietnamese death are mostly militias(more like civilians) in around 50-60k.

Btw, don't misunderstand me, China has no intention to conquer or colonize Vietnam, we are already big enough, just give us back those islands you took after KMT withdrew. Before 1949, all those islands were literally under KMT control, they withdrew and you guys came in to take in. When Mao ask Vietnam why they did that when China supported Vietcong, you know what Vietnamese answered? They said China is already so big, why not spare a few rocks for Vietnam. You betrayed us! We sacrificed our soldiers and equipment to give you independence.

For Vietnam- Sino War : This is one battle among hundred battle in Vietnamese-Chinese war "The lack of military skills was illustrated by Chinese combat performance in the battle for Cao Ba Lanh, a strategic peak located 9 km from the border crossing at Hoành Mô: a regiment-sized Chinese force, after five hours staging numerous waves of mass formation attacks and the toll of 360 casualties, were eventually able to capture a height defended by a single Vietnamese platoon" So I agree for the number of 50-60k Vietnamese civil + soldiers died but the number of Chinese is higher the number you give many times.

If sources are to be believed, there was reason for which China considered Vietnam ungrateful. From as early as 1949 to 1977, China was, alongside the Soviet Union, a major supporter of Vietnam in its unification war. China's assistance from 1949 to 1955 was instrumental in Vietnamese war against France, turning Vietnamese guerrilla into a regular army.

From 1955 to 1977, China assisted Vietnam in developing the country while fighting the Americans in the south. Below is a figure I came across and included in my thesis.

The amount of support was massive considering that from 1966 China entered a state of national crisis (i.e. Cultural Revolution & famines). Such support during such dire time was important to the Vietnamese struggle.

So, in a way Vietnam owed China a lot. As such, China was confident that Vietnam would support it in its bid to compete with Russia (Xin, 2009). Instead, Vietnam was hellbent on unifying the country and could care less about the bickering between China and Russia. It instead wanted to stay as neutral as possible. So at this stage it stood out of the fight, and China did not really like it.

Also, Vietnam was extraordinarily active in Indochina (Chanda, 1986). It was the center of communist movement in Indochina and, by right, its leaders believed it was to have predominance in the region. China was not particularly happy with Vietnam's operations in Lao and Cambodia, and this was also a source of friction between the two countries in the 1955 - 1975.

So, to China Vietnam was not the most amicable "brother". But Vietnam had reasons to view China in a negative way, too. First, China, during Vietnam War, normalized relations with the United States, casting doubt on their commitment to help Vietnam. Leaders in Vietnam saw this as a compromise that did not bode well for Vietnam and the communist countries. It should be noted that China did this not long after their conflict with Russia, another communist state, so it was not strange to Vietnamese leaders to think that China was double-dealing behind their back.

Second, China did not assist Vietnam in solving the ethnic Chinese issue in Vietnam. Most of these people, who lived in southern Vietnam, resisted attempts to register them as Vietnamese citizens and even requested assistance from China. The Vietnamese government saw this as a betrayal, and took harsh measures. Likely they thought that China was only making the matter worse for Vietnam. The amount of ethnic Chinese forcibly returned to China took a toll of China's economy, so the Chinese resented the Vietnamese from that point.

Third and most gravely, China assisted the Pol Pot who blatantly attacked Vietnam. The Khmer already became intimate to China and China gave them a lot of weapons for "aid". Then they bought the fight to the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese requested the Chinese to be the arbiter, but China declined. Shortly after, China also stopped all aid to Vietnam. To them that was necessary to rebuild China, but the Vietnamese saw this as an attempt by China to sever all ties with Vietnam.

The last straw was the Khmer made an all-out assault in 1979. In retaliation, Vietnam invaded Cambodia in two weeks, and shortly after China invaded Vietnam in two months. The decisions to open fire put an end to China-Vietnam relations for the next decade.

I think the war between China and Vietnam was the result of both countries' leaders' arrogance and misjudgment of each other's policies and actions. The United States, the ethnic Chinese and the Khmer were only the fuel that added more to the already blazing flame. I don't think any country was entirely at fault but their actions resulted a decade of hostility and current animosity between the two countries.

For SCS :

Bao dai letter reaffirmed Vietnam’s sovereignty over Paracel archipelagos - 1939

Vietnamese saluting the flag at (Pattle), Paracel Islands

Ancient statue built by Vietnamese in the south-west of the Paracels.

Asia in Praecipuas Ipsius Partes Distributa by Van der AA - 1594

Insulae Indiae Orientalis by Jodocus Hondius - 1632

Map of Replublic of Vietnam that show the Paracel and Spratly archipelagoes are under South Viet Nam’s sovereignty , why South Vietnam ? Because it lay under 17th parallel , it temporarily divided Vietnam along the 17th parallel.

Republic of Vietnam stele on the Spratly Islands with Republic of Vietnam naval officer beside

Most clear map i can found so people can zoom-in is : The Complete Map of the Unified Great Nam 1834

It show group of islands - draws symbolically

For effective management of island and sea areas, particularly Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, the Nguyen Lords founded Bac Hai flotilla with sailors selected from Tu Chinh village in Binh Thuan province and Canh Duong commune. Those who join the flotilla would be granted permits by the Nguyen Lords and exempted from poll tax or river-crossing charges. It is recorded in historical documents that Bac Hai flotilla operated in a fairly large sea area belonging to southern and southern central provinces of Vietnam, patrolling Con Dao (Poulo Condor) island and others islands in Ha Tien sea bordering on the present-day gulf of Thailand.

In addition to Bac Hai flotilla, the Nguyen Lords also founded Hoang Sa flotilla to conduct marine patrol and control, exploit marine products and collect ship-wrecked cargoes floating to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa areas. Hoang Sa flotilla was carefully prepared for every long voyage, first obtaining the permission of the Nguyen Lords, then preparing vessels and food. Historian Phan Huy Chu wrote in “Lich Trieu Hien Chuong Loai Chi” (Classified Rules of Dynasties):

“Hoang Sa flotilla was set up by the Nguyen Lords with 70 crewmembers chosen from An Vinh village (Ly Son of Quang Ngai) on a rotational basis. In the third month of every year, by order of the Nguyen Lords, the men sailed on five small vessels, bringing with them enough food for six months, and reached these islands after three full days. There, they were free to catch fishes for food and collect plenty of precious items. In the eighth month, the sailors returned to the mainland through Thuan An estuary, then they came to Phu Xuan citadel to hand over items they have collected.

 

[Han Patriot]

For Vietnam- Sino War : This is one battle among hundred battle in Vietnamese-Chinese war "The lack of military skills was illustrated by Chinese combat performance in the battle for Cao Ba Lanh, a strategic peak located 9 km from the border crossing at Hoành Mô: a regiment-sized Chinese force, after five hours staging numerous waves of mass formation attacks and the toll of 360 casualties, were eventually able to capture a height defended by a single Vietnamese platoon" So I agree for the number of 50-60k Vietnamese civil + soldiers died but the number of Chinese is higher the number you give many times.

If sources are to be believed, there was reason for which China considered Vietnam ungrateful. From as early as 1949 to 1977, China was, alongside the Soviet Union, a major supporter of Vietnam in its unification war. China's assistance from 1949 to 1955 was instrumental in Vietnamese war against France, turning Vietnamese guerrilla into a regular army.

From 1955 to 1977, China assisted Vietnam in developing the country while fighting the Americans in the south. Below is a figure I came across and included in my thesis.

The amount of support was massive considering that from 1966 China entered a state of national crisis (i.e. Cultural Revolution & famines). Such support during such dire time was important to the Vietnamese struggle.

So, in a way Vietnam owed China a lot. As such, China was confident that Vietnam would support it in its bid to compete with Russia (Xin, 2009). Instead, Vietnam was hellbent on unifying the country and could care less about the bickering between China and Russia. It instead wanted to stay as neutral as possible. So at this stage it stood out of the fight, and China did not really like it.

Also, Vietnam was extraordinarily active in Indochina (Chanda, 1986). It was the center of communist movement in Indochina and, by right, its leaders believed it was to have predominance in the region. China was not particularly happy with Vietnam's operations in Lao and Cambodia, and this was also a source of friction between the two countries in the 1955 - 1975.

So, to China Vietnam was not the most amicable "brother". But Vietnam had reasons to view China in a negative way, too. First, China, during Vietnam War, normalized relations with the United States, casting doubt on their commitment to help Vietnam. Leaders in Vietnam saw this as a compromise that did not bode well for Vietnam and the communist countries. It should be noted that China did this not long after their conflict with Russia, another communist state, so it was not strange to Vietnamese leaders to think that China was double-dealing behind their back.

Second, China did not assist Vietnam in solving the ethnic Chinese issue in Vietnam. Most of these people, who lived in southern Vietnam, resisted attempts to register them as Vietnamese citizens and even requested assistance from China. The Vietnamese government saw this as a betrayal, and took harsh measures. Likely they thought that China was only making the matter worse for Vietnam. The amount of ethnic Chinese forcibly returned to China took a toll of China's economy, so the Chinese resented the Vietnamese from that point.

Third and most gravely, China assisted the Pol Pot who blatantly attacked Vietnam. The Khmer already became intimate to China and China gave them a lot of weapons for "aid". Then they bought the fight to the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese requested the Chinese to be the arbiter, but China declined. Shortly after, China also stopped all aid to Vietnam. To them that was necessary to rebuild China, but the Vietnamese saw this as an attempt by China to sever all ties with Vietnam.

The last straw was the Khmer made an all-out assault in 1979. In retaliation, Vietnam invaded Cambodia in two weeks, and shortly after China invaded Vietnam in two months. The decisions to open fire put an end to China-Vietnam relations for the next decade.

I think the war between China and Vietnam was the result of both countries' leaders' arrogance and misjudgment of each other's policies and actions. The United States, the ethnic Chinese and the Khmer were only the fuel that added more to the already blazing flame. I don't think any country was entirely at fault but their actions resulted a decade of hostility and current animosity between the two countries.

For SCS :

Bao dai letter reaffirmed Vietnam’s sovereignty over Paracel archipelagos - 1939

Vietnamese saluting the flag at (Pattle), Paracel Islands

Ancient statue built by Vietnamese in the south-west of the Paracels.

Asia in Praecipuas Ipsius Partes Distributa by Van der AA - 1594

Insulae Indiae Orientalis by Jodocus Hondius - 1632

Map of Replublic of Vietnam that show the Paracel and Spratly archipelagoes are under South Viet Nam’s sovereignty , why South Vietnam ? Because it lay under 17th parallel , it temporarily divided Vietnam along the 17th parallel.

Republic of Vietnam stele on the Spratly Islands with Republic of Vietnam naval officer beside

Most clear map i can found so people can zoom-in is : The Complete Map of the Unified Great Nam 1834

It show group of islands - draws symbolically

For effective management of island and sea areas, particularly Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes, the Nguyen Lords founded Bac Hai flotilla with sailors selected from Tu Chinh village in Binh Thuan province and Canh Duong commune. Those who join the flotilla would be granted permits by the Nguyen Lords and exempted from poll tax or river-crossing charges. It is recorded in historical documents that Bac Hai flotilla operated in a fairly large sea area belonging to southern and southern central provinces of Vietnam, patrolling Con Dao (Poulo Condor) island and others islands in Ha Tien sea bordering on the present-day gulf of Thailand.

In addition to Bac Hai flotilla, the Nguyen Lords also founded Hoang Sa flotilla to conduct marine patrol and control, exploit marine products and collect ship-wrecked cargoes floating to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa areas. Hoang Sa flotilla was carefully prepared for every long voyage, first obtaining the permission of the Nguyen Lords, then preparing vessels and food. Historian Phan Huy Chu wrote in “Lich Trieu Hien Chuong Loai Chi” (Classified Rules of Dynasties):

“Hoang Sa flotilla was set up by the Nguyen Lords with 70 crewmembers chosen from An Vinh village (Ly Son of Quang Ngai) on a rotational basis. In the third month of every year, by order of the Nguyen Lords, the men sailed on five small vessels, bringing with them enough food for six months, and reached these islands after three full days. There, they were free to catch fishes for food and collect plenty of precious items. In the eighth month, the sailors returned to the mainland through Thuan An estuary, then they came to Phu Xuan citadel to hand over items they have collected.

I agree most of the things you said except for the casualty numbers. To me China held those islands before Vietnamese independence circa KMT era in the 30s - 49, but geographically speaking it should have belonged to Vietnam/Philippines. But due to Chinese policy of safeguarding every inch of Chinese soil, we have no choice but to reclaim it.

 

[TaiShang]

Philippine slams outside interference in South China Sea dispute
(People's Daily Online) 16:54, August 09, 2017

Philippine Foreign Secretary Alan Peter Cayetano on Tuesday warned countries outside of the South China Sea, denouncing their interference in the disputed water.

The remarks come on the heel of a joint statement issued by the U.S., Japan, and Australia on Aug.7 calling on China and the Philippines to abide by the 2016 arbitration ruling on South China Sea.

In response to the accusation, Cayetno said the Philippines is sovereign and independent and will not be instructed by other nations when it comes to the South China Sea issue. The Secretary also noted that the Philippines will decide what is best for the country’s national interest.

Though the U.S., Japan, and Australia are not claimants in the South China Sea, they have been constantly vocal on the dispute, calling for so-called “Freedom of Navigation” to satisfy their own needs.

Countries in the region, on the other hand, have reached certain consensus on the issue. The foreign ministers of the Association of Southeastern Asian Nations (ASEAN) issued a joint communiqué on Sunday, in which they took note of the improving situation in the South China Sea over the past year, agreeing that promoting peace, stability, and prosperity in the region will benefit all parties.

 

[IblinI]

 

[Taygibay]

What designation will that new carrier carry? 004A型航空母艦 ?
And its tonnage must be humongous!


Have a nice day, Tay.

 

[TaiShang]

New Chinese fighter pilots conduct solo night flight over South China Sea
(People's Daily Online) 15:23, August 23, 2017

(Photo/CCTV)

China's newest fighter pilots of a naval aviation division of the South China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) successfully conducted their first solo night flight drill over the South China Sea, CCTV news reported on Aug.22.

The new pilots conducted competitive training exercises, including multi-fighter cooperative air combat, intercepts, and searching for and attacking targets at night over the South China Sea.

(Photo/CCTV)

"Night flights are important for round-the-clock combat missions. By making full use of the complicated natural battlefield environment of the South China Sea, we hope to build an air force composed of competent fighter pilots," said Cui Meng, battalion chief of the naval aviation division.

The Chinese Navy training plan was based on research of night flights. The Navy also formulated a special implementation program and response measures in case of extraordinary circumstances ahead of the drill.

 

[JSCh]

Smart microgrid-based desalination systems installed in Sansha
By Sun Wenyu (People's Daily Online) 18:40, August 25, 2017

(Photo/Science and Technology Daily)​

Smart microgrid-based desalination systems have been installed in Sansha, China's southernmost city. The system, employing wind power and solar energy, can produce high-quality drinking water out of sea water.

Desalination used to be a high energy-consuming industry. Statistics show that by using conventional energy, it would take 46,600 kilowatt hours to desalinate 10,000 tons of sea water, the equivalent to 18.8 tons of coal and 46.4 tons of carbon dioxide emissions.

In order to have an economical and stable desalination system off the national grid, Jiangsu Fenghai New Energy Seawater Desalination Development Co., Ltd. explored a unique technology that combines a large-capacity generator and small-capacity energy storage system, successfully breaking the energy bottleneck.

The company established China's first 10,000-ton wind-power demonstration project of sea water desalination in Jiangsu province in May 2014, applying an advanced energy management system and a series of storage converters to adjust the load. By doing this, the company found an effective solution to desalinate sea water using new energy.

"Now the demonstration project can desalinate 10,000 tons of sea water per day, including 1,000 tons of vessel water, 8,200 tons of municipal water, and 800 tons of purified water," said Wang Jiafu, research and development manager of the company.

Later, the company upgraded the 10,000-ton device, transforming the mega project into one that could be applied on small islands.

According to Wang, the company reduced the size of the device and packed it into a container which could be operated off the national power grid. "It's like a computer, ready for use once connected with wires and tubes," Wang explained.

In addition, the container-style system's anti-corrosion and high-temperature resistance technologies make it typhoon proof. The device could enable people to survive on any isolated island.

 

[cochine]

Last update 15:58 | 24/08/2017
0


Vietnam objects to Taiwan’s live-fire drill in Truong Sa
Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang has voiced Vietnam’s strong opposition to Taiwan’s live-fire drill on Ba Binh (Itu Aba) Island, part of the Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago, and asked the Chinese territory not to repeat similar actions.

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang



Responding to reporters’ question about the recent live-fire drill of Taiwan, she said on August 24 that: “Vietnam has sufficient legal foundation and historical evidence testifying to its sovereignty over Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa archipelagos.”

Taiwan’s live-fire drills in the sea area surrounding Ba Binh Island of Vietnam’s Truong Sa archipelago for many times seriously violated Vietnam’s territorial sovereignty over this archipelago, threatened peace, stability, safety, and security of navigation, caused tensions and complicated the situation in the East Sea, she said.

“Once again, Vietnam resolutely objects and requests Taiwan not to repeat similar actions,” the spokesperson noted.

VNA

 

[cochine]

Vietnam protests over Chinese live-fire drill in seized island
By Staff reporters September 5, 2017 | 08:54 pm GMT+7
The objection came just several days after Hanoi bristled at Beijing’s military exercises in the Gulf of Tonkin.
China's announced live-fire drill on the Paracel archipelago in the troubled South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea, is a serious violation of Hanoi's territorial sovereignty, the Vietnamese foreign ministry said in a statement late Tuesday.

“Vietnam strongly opposes this action and demands that China respect Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa archipelago and cease and refrain from repeating acts” that threaten peace and stability in the East Sea and the region, Le Thi Thu Hang, Vietnam’s foreign ministry spokesperson, said, employing the Vietnamese name for the Paracels, the island chain China took from Vietnam by force in 1974.

"We will resolutely protect our sovereignty and our legitimate rights and interests in the East Sea through peaceful measures that are in accordance with international laws," Hang said.

The Maritime Safety Administration of China’s southern province of Hainan, which oversees the East Sea, announced that military drills would take place south of the province and east of Vietnam from August 29 until September 4, Reuters reported. That would include live-fire drills around the Paracel Islands until Sunday, according to the newswire.

Last Thursday, Vietnam also said it was deeply concerned about the Chinese exercises in the Gulf of Tonkin area, at the north end of the East Sea. Vietnam and China agreed on an equal split of the maritime boundary of the Gulf of Tonkin in 2000.

“The drills themselves are not unusual,” Gregory Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said.

“China does several military drills in the South China Sea each year, including frequently in the Gulf of Tonkin and around the Paracels. And Vietnam protests them anytime they occur in waters that Hanoi considers to be disputed," Poling said.

But "the language of the objection from Vietnam highlights that tensions are high right now.”

China invaded the Paracel Islands in 1974, as American forces withdrew from the region, abandoning a naval unit of the then U.S.-backed Republic of Vietnam to a brief but bloody assault.

Vietnam's behemoth northern neighbor has illegally occupied the islands ever since; re-unified Vietnam has never relinquished its sovereignty over the Paracel Islands.

http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...live-fire-drill-in-seized-island-3637348.html

 

[grey boy 2]

Check this out, stunning, unbelievable evolution of our "Unsinkable Aircraft-Carrier" in a 5 years span
砥砺奋进的五年：南沙永暑礁旧貌换新颜震撼世界

 

[sinait]

Check this out, stunning, unbelievable evolution of our "Unsinkable Aircraft-Carrier" in a 5 years span
砥砺奋进的五年：南沙永暑礁旧貌换新颜震撼世界

It literally does look like a gigantic aircraft carrier.
Magnificent !!!
Mo Tak Teng.
.

 

[grey boy 2]

It literally does look like a gigantic aircraft carrier.
Magnificent !!!
Mo Tak Teng.
.

My take:Ho lung gink LOL

 

[samsara]

Check this out, stunning, unbelievable evolution of our "Unsinkable Aircraft-Carrier" in a 5 years span
砥砺奋进的五年：南沙永暑礁旧貌换新颜震撼世界

What captivating pictures... truly beautiful !!!

And the Yongshu Island 永暑岛, part of the Nansha Islands, is very strategically located in the middle of the South China Sea, with good airport can hold large plane and have many other facilities such as hospital, water desalination, vegetable gardening, mobile cellular coverage, lighthouse and even some object of interests for domestic tourists. This island is crucial in ensuring the safety of the China's maritime trade sea lane sailing through the South China Sea.

The Yongshu Island 永暑岛 is the left leg at this triangular mark with large airports.

It literally does look like a gigantic aircraft carrier.
Magnificent !!!
Mo Tak Teng.
.

Even bigger than Ford-class CV? some parties seeing these latest pics may cry baby out of envy

What designation will that new carrier carry? 004A型航空母艦 ?
And its tonnage must be humongous!


Have a nice day, Tay.

EVEN WAY LARGER than FORD-Class CV ha ha ha