What's new

South China Sea Forum

Last update 01:59 | 01/01/2017

French magazine carries special edition on East Sea

French magazine Francophonie Actualites recently released a special issue on the East Sea and the sovereignty of Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagos.


20170101015436-1.jpg



The first 77 pages focus on writings, speeches, and interviews concerning Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Truong Sa and Hoang Sa archipelagos.

The next part reviews the history of the East Sea and asserts Vietnam’s sovereignty over these islands using international data and documents.

There are also articles and speeches on the reasons for the current tension in the East Sea, the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the significance of the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) ruling in the Philippines’ suit against China, and assessments of and solutions for developments in the region.

VOV
 
.
Other countries can also do the same thing at SCS if they have also capabilities like China to realize their claim ... If not ...we have to accept it as our destiny as Malaysia did .. :-)
Do what you like but please don't bother other people.
 
.
Carrier-born aircrafts of Chinese military exercise on South China Sea

(CRI Online) 13:30, January 03, 2017



The fighter "Flying Shark" ready for takeoff on the deck of China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, during a training mission in the South China Sea on January 2, 2017. The carrier took part in a multi-tasking training exercise involving the Jian-15 aircraft and on board helicopters. [Photo: chinanews.com]



The "Flying Shark" jet fighter takes off from the deck on a signal given by a crew member. Refueling in the sky and air-defense confrontation were also part of the training exercise. [Photo: chinanews.com]



The formation led by the first Chinese aircraft carriers, the Liaoning, in the South China Sea for a training mission on January 2, 2017. [Photo: chinanews.com]



Aircraft on board the Liaoning, China's first aircraft carrier, in the South China Sea during a training mission on January 2, 2017. [Photo:CCTV]

FOREIGN201701031330000356552320821.jpg


An aerial view of the Liaoning, China's first aircraft carrier, in the South China Sea during a training mission on January 2, 2017. [Photo: t.people.com.cn]
 
.
He refuses to accept this fate thus he wishes the Americans to stick around in SCS, keep dreaming the Yankees will give Vietnam state of the art modern destroyers and having an arms race with China to become the next China. Plus he was trying to tell us some retired PLA general told some German newspaper Vietnam is the biggest threat to China and he actually believe it himself :rofl: But somewhere deep in his mind he knows China is and will always be the big boss of Asia. I can smell the fear in him from miles away, it's boring watching him trying to present Vietcongs as fearless fighting machine but not stupid enough to attack or wage war against China image here all the time. "We are brave but not stupid" :lol:
congrats. I see you are one of many loyal readers of my posts. too bad, the mods here delete my posts quicker than anyone can react. but ok, I will soften the tone a bit. stay tune my zhongguo friend.
 
.
Ownership is ultimately by consensus.

When there is a community, inevitably there will be contesting claims on things. Any thing. If you are by yourself in the wild, you can 'claim' anything you want and voila, it is yours. Except, not really. It is not yours until someone else come along and try to make a claim on that same thing and in one way or another, he was discouraged from continuing his claim on that thing.

How many times have people on this forum declared that North America belongs to the Natives and not to 'invading' white Europeans ?

Put aside the legalism for now. The fact that people make that statement, regardless of their hostility to the US, means exactly what have always been acknowledged, that ownership is ultimately by consensus. These people disagreed with the current situation that North America belongs to the 'Americans'. There is no consensus, in their minds.

The historical evidences that China brought on to claim the entirety of the SCS have been found unconvincing. There is no consensus, ergo, there is no ownership.

Your unsubstantial longwinded excuses, your perception of a concensus or nonexistence of it, nor your denial are relevant.

Our ownership does not disappear by your denial, no matter how many layers and facets you wrap arround your expression or justifcation of your denial.

Make this the premise of your arguments and I say nice try troll.

But it is his fault.

Your entire argument/defense of his post can and will be destroyed by the history of the event.

Hold it boy, your invented "stalking" narrative, doesn't excuse all those unrelated stupid arguments you already made that blew up, nor does it excuse your attempts to paraphrase him to rescue your failing argument. All your car related arguments/analogies you made to defend your biased position where detached from reality and just silly. Anyone with a some basic common sense can see that. Your paraphrasing attempts can be seen quote on quote in my previous posts. You cant just brush that away, with such a cheap dodge.

Neither are his actually pretty common sense arguments "destroyed" by alleging completely new aspects to the story to invalidate his arguments relevance. It's clear you went along with the anaolgy and tried to beat him and then me with his own arguments and dragging the analogy along up to the Baidu nonsense where it just blew up when you started talking like someone who lives in the mountains. Now you try to change the premises and imply the entire anaolgy could not be applied in first place because the situation was different? Thats not argueing anymore. That's just wiggling in a grave you dug yourself. Get over it, you blew it.

Now your biased and ignorant narrative is not becoming any more valid by calling it "history of the event". The whole stalking narrative is at best a spin on the fact that this is was a regular Chinese partrol boat and if anyone it was the U.S. ships lingering and stalking around Chinese islands and ships, not vice versa. The rest plain and simple unproven allegations from the provocateur and defensive cheerleaders forging excuses.

But then would you agree that the U.S. navy "civilian" ship knew or as "professionals" should have been aware they where provoking China with their missbehavior? Or will you deny that even after claiming they knew they where allegedly followed by Chinese authorities because of their obvious suspiscious behavior around and in Chinese administered waters where common sense would expect them not to do that without expecting consequences and appropiate measures? Something tells me you won't.

Authority, just like ownership, is ultimately by consensus. Either you submit to overwhelming force or you vote. In the end, you will have a leader. Consensus.

The immediate community neither submitted nor voted China to be the authority figure regarding the SCS. They submitted to UNCLOS and that convention denied China's claim to the entirety of the SCS.

You played dumb asked for the authority. You got it.
Its up to you to deny it. But don't pretend you don't know now.

Again your, as you refer to yourself with "the community", denial does not change our ownership. Common sense say if it belongs to China and or China exercises authority over it, China is the authority you should consult if you want to send your toy drones into Chinese administered waters. Whether you feign ignorance, lack common sense or pretend to be dumb, the authorities are going to deal with any disrespect of our customs and laws as they see fit either way.

Again China does not care about your biased U.S. propaganda reinterpretation of UNCLOS cases nor anyone else beyond the facts its just more platitudes to roll your eyes over, no matter where and how you try to slip it into your arguments pretending you are talking about facts rather than biased missleading U.S. opinion pieces. China respects only the provisions on UNCLOS it agreed uppon that do not conflict with these claims nor these concrete actions (not denying we **** up and step over it sometimes like anyone else) not your opinion pieces.

Where did I even implied such ?
Its explained right in the next sentence.

Even now, you continues to evade the fact that the event happened far away from China, unless the Philippines belongs to China.
By "far away from China" you mean of course the fact that it happen close those Chinas islands and in Chinese administered waters. You can go on dodging that the fact all day, this isn't a mainstream land of the free roaming sheep blog, its a forum where people understand the context. You desperate attempts to keep spinning it to the U.S. propaganda narrative that is trying to paint a false picture in the head of ignorants, is kind of futile with people that know the geographic situation.

We are now approaching the circle where the Vietnamese trolls keep repeating ignorant talking points over and over again it seems.
 
Last edited:
.
Do what you like but please don't bother other people.

Our Prime Minister Najib Razak and his Malays party UMNO is very-very smart .. Based on his realistic and pragmatic approach ..If we have no capabilities to fight with China .. It would be better for Malaysia to be a "Slave" to China as long as Malaysia can survive as a Malay State .. ....:-)
 
.
Your unsubstantial longwinded excuses, your perception of a concensus or nonexistence of it, nor your denial are relevant.

Our ownership does not disappear by your denial, no matter how many layers and facets you wrap arround your expression or justifcation of your denial.
Yes, it does.

Here is an excellent analysis on why China's claim to the entirety of the SCS is deemed absurd in both historical and legal perspectives. Third paragraph.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/historical-fiction-china’s-south-china-sea-claims
China’s claim to the Spratlys on the basis of history runs aground on the fact that the region’s past empires did not exercise sovereignty.
This means past Chinese empires were actually suzerain powers, not sovereign powers, over territories that these empires controlled.

...in its territorial disputes with neighboring India, Burma, and Vietnam, Beijing always took the position that its land boundaries were never defined, demarcated, and delimited. But now, when it comes to islands, shoals, and reefs in the South China Sea, Beijing claims otherwise. In other words, China’s claim that its land boundaries were historically never defined and delimited stands in sharp contrast with the stance that China’s maritime boundaries were always clearly defined and delimited.
China's multiple claims regarding other territorial disputes contradicts each other. This undermines the validity of her claim to the entirety of the SCS.

...sovereignty is a post-imperial notion ascribed to nation-states, not ancient empires
If China claims to be a sovereign nation-state under modern day's political status and geographical boundaries, then China cannot, with any degree of validity, to be able to transfer past suzerain authority to modern day's territories.

China's ownership claim to the entirety of the SCS is essentially smoke.

Hold it boy, your invented "stalking" narrative,...
Hold it, boy. There is no invention here.

Credit to Stratfor. Here is the map of where the theft occurred.

hBH8C1h.jpg


The location is nowhere off China's coast or within or near China's territorial waters, other than the already denied interpretation that the SCS is China's property.

The distance means the Chinese ship pretty much stalked the Bowditch. Wait until the right time when the Bowditch was vulnerable, the stole the UUV in clear view when the unarmed civilian crew could do nothing to resist.

The Chinese ship knew who was the owner of the UUV. It was theft.

But then would you agree that the U.S. navy "civilian" ship knew or as "professionals" should have been aware they where provoking China with their missbehavior? Or will you deny that even after claiming they knew they where allegedly followed by Chinese authorities because of their obvious suspiscious behavior around and in Chinese administered waters where common sense would expect them not to do that without expecting consequences and appropiate measures? Something tells me you won't.
So essentially, you are saying that China will do whatever she want anyway. Never mind that Chinese authority over the SCS is in dispute. Whatever anyone do inside these disputed waters, China can take it as 'provocation', even when the ship is clearly unarmed and civilian status.

Back in '01, the Bowditch had an armed escort and China did nothing.

The SCS does not belong to China. Whatever the USN does in the SCS is within legal rights of all countries, whether they have business traversing the sea or not.

Common sense say if it belongs to China and or China exercises authority over it, China is the authority you should consult if you want to send your toy drones into Chinese administered waters.
That is true. That would be common sense. But only if there is consensus that the SCS belongs to China, which there is no such consensus. Start shooting at the ships who can shoot back and find out.
 
.
Time for some pics of CCG vessels

CCG 3174 and CCG 3171
095442hp5erbmlc6crmclc.jpg


CCG 46301
095432oa1d156kmvv9d9n2.jpg


CCG 46302
095423fyldjyyddqdy2eqj.jpg


CCG 46112
095427sp2j48323z8vjupj.jpg


CCG 31303
095437prjrbiff4i6pnui9.jpg


CCG XXXXX
095419n50xisisiilbqzbl.jpg


Tip of the iceberg...Sausage making has just started...Let's have fun in the SCS for 100 years...:lol::D

CCG 2304
124047f8zxe8yacydx1fhy.jpg


CCG 3901
132359kzm0toewp1fpzvuk.jpg
 
. .
See, now the SCS issue is all quiet and dandy. Told you guys right, the International Court rulings will change nothing...China will just ignore it.

It's all about power...
No one ever -- EVER -- believed, not even an atom's worth of hope, that China will agree to any external judgement. Nevertheless, China has to go thru the motions anyway to maintain the facade that China is a responsible power. We all agree with you that Chinese control of the SCS will be thru military power, not by legal consent. Since China elected to go thru these motions, we are obliged to do the same. We enlist historians and legal experts to present our case to China knowing full well that China will these papers as toilet papers.

But in the end, no matter how much China claim ownership, the SCS will remain free for everyone and the US will ensure it.
 
.
Yes, it does.
.

No it does not. We all know you have your opinions and making excuses for them, from biased interpretation of the legal situation to attempts to change history with their fresh convenient interpretations. Some putting up a more professional, some less.

But the layer of exuses to justify it are irrelevant, our ownership does not disappear by your denial.

Make this the premise of your arguments and I say nice try troll.

Hold it, boy. There is no invention here.
.

Until you find something better than a map that just illustrates my positon about the missleading "Subic Bay" propaganda spin and does not even touch on your invented "stalking" narrative and its allegations against the Chinese patrol boat, which obviously just tries to distract from the reality of the suspiscious and provocative behavior by the U.S. vessels themself, like the Subic Bay spin tries to distract from the realy relevant geographic Chinese landmarks, yes it remains your invention.

The map underlines the close proximity to the Chinese islands and how deep they reach into the Chinese administered waters with their ever increasing distances to some inceasingly irrelevant location that just served as a diversion from the beginning. It destroys the "in Subic Bay" spin you try to push, the "about 50 miles near Subic Bay"spin and the "about 100 miles near Subic Bay" spin and mabe tommorows 150 miles spin, when you know whats right on the other side ofit, if you are not already inside. And we all do know. The close proximity to Chinese islands and administered waters confirms their provocative approach to us, not vice versa. This is evidence the U.S. ship and their toy drone where intentionally trying to disrepect our law and customs and provoke a reaction in spite of a regular patrol already observing their suspicious behavior. Whether they play the victim now because showing off failed or that was they goal from the start.

I just told you we know the geographic context. The U.S. propaganda "Subic Bay" spin you cling to only works on ignorant people and thats what its aimed at. Not Chinese. Fooling "free thinking" sheep at home with a farce.

So we are back to the justified reaction by the Chinese navy doing its job and fishing out your suspiscious clutter from Chinese administered waters, while you guys are whining about it.

If you want to argue you can act like a brute and disrespect the laws and customs and authorities by flashing guns at them, so be it. Don't assume it will always works out as you wish.

So essentially, you are saying that China will do whatever she want anyway. Never mind that Chinese authority over the SCS is in dispute. Whatever anyone do inside these disputed waters, China can take it as 'provocation', even when the ship is clearly unarmed and civilian status.
.

No thats essentially you deliberately saying something completely different and stupid and disregarding everything I actually said probably because its sounds too much like common sense and inconveniently in favour of the Chinese camp.

I repeat it for probably the fourth time, respect our customs and laws when you send clearly concealed unflagged submerged toys into our administered waters or you will face consquences as according to those customs and laws, just like when you deal with any other country especially when you are on the watchlist for being povocative problem children that keep testing our patience. A "civilian" sticker on your not really military icbm speeding at us or your not really military appropiated submerged drone lurking around in our waters or not real military navy vessels tiptoeing around Chinese islands and yelling not to provoke anyone or violating anyones sovereignty, will not protect you from lawfull and appropiate consqueuences.

All something the U.S. navy force knew about, when they decided to go along with their provocation. We are not to blame for your host countries irresponsibilities.
 
Last edited:
.
our ownership does not disappear by your denial.
Yes, it does. Poof...!!!

...yes it remains your invention.
The true invention is somehow China 'owns' the entirety of the SCS.

There is no way China is going to convince Asia that the SCS belongs to China, even by historical evidences, which were flimsy to start. The rest of your argument regarding laws and customs rests upon this (false) premise and will be, and have been, discarded.

Since China is determined to make possession, or rather to take possession, by force, the US will have no problems meeting China on that arena. For now, the Chinese populace can take pride that the PLAN apparently embarrassed the US, but in the long run, the PLAN will remain as nothing more than a schoolyard bully easily deterred by someone willing to stand up for what is right for Asia, namely the freedom to navigate the SCS without harassment. That someone is US and we will make good on that front.
 
.
Yes, it does. Poof...!!!

The rest of your argument regarding laws and customs rests upon this (false) premise and will be, and have been, discarded.
Thanks for finally making it clear your entire case boils down to your denial of our ownership that has no relevance to us and the laws and orders we respect, after we took out all all the deliberate missleading omissions, your inventions and spins that rest on ignorance and this (false) premise, and your entire filmsy excuses where just another farce to monkey around that, because your blanket denial is far too easy to dismiss for its irrelevance and too unconvincing to pose as a "rationale" to insult and blame China. So we have another unproductive non-argument settled, since as you know your mere denial never invalidated our ownership. I told you right from the very start it doesn't.

The U.S. is always welcome to drop its provocations and start acting respectful, professional and cooperative for a change and enjoy all the freddom of navigation by non-violators and non-aggressors protected by PLAN in the SCS.
 
Last edited:
.
See, now the SCS issue is all quiet and dandy. Told you guys right, the International Court rulings will change nothing...China will just ignore it.

It's all about power...

Just the 17th casualty of a kangaroo court that even the US does not respect.

Meanwhile in the SCS...

China reinforces its scientific development program by adding new technologies and safety-security measures such as the now developing floating nuclear energy vessel and ensuring regional safety from piracy and other non-state and rogue-state actors (such as the US).

Hence we have this fresh development (Please note, alleged by the US state-embedded regime media):

***

China's missile deployment in South China Sea completely reasonable: expert

By Sun Wenyu (People's Daily Online) January 04, 2017


FOREIGN201701041324000142967984810.jpg

HQ-9 ground-to-air missile. [File photo]


Chinese military expert Yin Zhuo told CCTV that China's military deployment in the South China Sea is completely reasonable, in light of the powerful naval force of the U.S. in the region.

He made his remarks after American media outlet Fox News quoted the U.S. intelligence community, saying that China has sent hundreds of surface-to-air missiles from the mainland to the South China Sea. Fox News reported that China has deployed more than 500 missiles on South China Sea islands, including CSA-6B and HQ-9 missiles, as well as the anti-ballistic missile interceptor HQ-26.

A U.S. official said these locations are “only temporary” and anticipated that the missiles would soon be deployed to the Nansha Islands and Yongxing Island. Some people believe China will form a comprehensive air defense system once it deploys CSA-6B, HQ-9 and HQ-26 in the South China Sea, increasing its power to cope with U.S. forces in the region.

Yin noted that the speculation by Western media makes no sense at all, since the U.S. has maintained powerful forces in the region, including bombers and aircraft carriers. He said neither the U.S. nor surrounding countries are the targets of the missile, adding that they won't be launched unless China's sovereignty over these islands and reefs are violated.

Yin said the U.S. is the one who truly threatens regional stability, though Western media has been spreading the theory of the so-called China threat. The situation in the South China Sea has been stable since the U.S. presidential election. However, some countries are still pushing issues, hoping the U.S. will maintain its Asia-Pacific Rebalance strategy.

China will never give up its core interest in the South China Sea, stressed Yin.

"We will never start a fight as long as others remain peaceful, but we'll fight back when our interests are violated or endangered," he added.
 
.
Last update 10:06 | 09/12/2016

All nations must adhere to 1982 UNCLOS: Ambassador

All countries, regardless of big or small, must have goodwill and responsibility to comply with regulations in the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (1982 UNCLOS), Vietnamese Ambassador Nguyen Phuong Nga has said at a plenum of the UN General Assembly.


20161209095853-4.jpeg



Vietnamese Ambassador Nguyen Phuong Nga



The UN General Assembly convened a plenary meeting at the UN’s headquarters in New York, the US, on December 7 with a focus on Agenda Item 73, themed “Oceans and the law of the sea”.

Participants in the event included representatives of UN member states, the International Seabed Authority (ISA), and the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).

They discussed the UN General Assembly’s draft resolutions on oceans and the law of the sea, sustainable fisheries, and the World Tuna Day. They also looked into reports by the UN Secretary-General on issues pertaining to oceans and the law of the sea.

In her speech, Ambassador Nga, head of Vietnam’s Permanent Mission to the UN, lauded recent efforts by the UN General Assembly and subordinate agencies, especially those to attain the outcomes of the 17th meeting of the UN Open-ended Informal Consultative Process on Oceans and the Law of the Sea, the 26th meeting of States Parties to the UNCLOS, and meetings of the preparatory committee on the conservation and sustainable use of marine biological diversity of areas beyond national jurisdiction.

Vietnam also highly values the success of the ISA’s 22nd session, efforts to consider reports of the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, and activities of the ITLOS and other dispute settlement mechanisms to interpret and apply the 1982 UNCLOS, she noted.

She affirmed that this Convention is the most important legal document stipulating all ocean and sea-related activities, and is also a comprehensive and effective framework to peacefully resolve disputes. It contributes to peace and security while ensuring safety, security and freedom of navigation and overflight at sea.

As one of the first nations to sign and ratify the UNCLOS, Vietnam has continually adhered to the Convention’s regulations, respected rights and legitimate interests of other countries, and actively engaged in activities held within the Convention’s framework, Nga added.

Regarding complex developments in the East Sea, the diplomat stressed that Vietnam calls on all relevant parties to exercise self-restraint, settle disputes by peaceful means on the basis of international law, including UNCLOS, respect diplomatic and legal processes, implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), and expeditiously finalise a Code of Conduct (COC) in the waters.

VNA
 
.
Back
Top Bottom