South China Sea Forum

[Kyle Sun]

make it 1000 : 0 .

We do not care about such childish game.

 

[somsak]

Focus on your work. Everything else is distraction. Silk Road and Yuan Internationalization is Chinas goal. Focus on that

 

[Kyle Sun]

Focus on your work. Everything else is distraction. Silk Road and Yuan Internationalization is Chinas goal. Focus on that

Especially RMB internationalization.

Saddam got hanged because he claimed iraq would do international settlement with euro in oil trade.

Shameless US GOV made a lie of WMD.

 

[Zsari]

Even if China had sovereignty over Spratleys and Paracels, it would still mean only 12 nmi territorial waters. A 200nmi EEZ has NOTHING to do with sovereignty/territory, and the right to close waters to others. Hence the claim SCS in its entirtey is Chinese territory is ... ludicrous.

China has yet to declare its EEZ. Of all the islansd in the Spratly chain, there is a single island that is fully qualified for EEZ, and that is the Taiping island which is currently controlled by ROC. So until PRC/ROC resolve their difference, China will most definitely hold back on such a declaration. Right now China is just sticking to the 9 dash line which is a mirror of the 10 dash line published by ROC without giving much detail.

 

[TaiShang]

They can be disputed, but the ground reality is China is on those islands and building them continuously, but this is not my point. By the provoking action of the US, it is confirmed that everyone is taking 12 miles seriously, and itself is a huge gain for China.

Build-up in peace time because in war time you might need them.

China needs a bit more time, hence, it needs not let the status quo to be dramatically changed.

Most of the world does not give a crap about this freedom of navigation concern of the US as most of the world knows that the greatest threat to the world peace is the US itself.

Let alone most of the world, even ASEAN does not give a crap about this sudden US love for FON.

This, in fact, reminds people of some past nasty memories -- such as bringing democracy to Iraq and Libya.

Most of the world has seen China as their largest trade partner whose goods arrive in their ports through sea lanes.

This is a pure great power struggle which involves some graceful act on part of the two while the minions (JP-VN-PH, to be exact) are let out to do the barking and the little nasty stuff.

Focus on your work. Everything else is distraction. Silk Road and Yuan Internationalization is Chinas goal. Focus on that

Exactly. We in fact treat these US adventurisms as minor distractions. Hence, you will not see high officials commenting on that. We are busy with stuff like this:

Denmark signs AIIB agreement - China.org.cn

 

[Dungeness]

Build-up in peace time because in war time you might need them.

China needs a bit more time, hence, it needs not let the status quo to be dramatically changed.

Most of the world does not give a crap about this freedom of navigation concern of the US as most of the world knows that the greatest threat to the world peace is the US itself.

Let alone most of the world, even ASEAN does not give a crap about this sudden US love for FON.

This, in fact, reminds people of some past nasty memories -- such as bringing democracy to Iraq and Libya.

Most of the world has seen China as their largest trade partner whose goods arrive in their ports through sea lanes.

This is a pure great power struggle which involves some graceful act on part of the two while the minions (JP-VN-PH, to be exact) are let out to do the barking and the little nasty stuff.



Exactly. We in fact treat these US adventurisms as minor distractions. Hence, you will not see high officials commenting on that. We are busy with stuff like this:

Denmark signs AIIB agreement - China.org.cn

Well, US is 18 months too later now if they were serious about FON, and it is just face saving gesture that even themselves know it means jack to the ground reality. What I really don't understand is why in the world Japanese and Vietnamese here are up and down like they just hit a jackpot.

US already said that they will conduct similar FON operations around Vietnam and Philippine occupied islands in the near future. So what Vietnam has gained exactly that made them so happy?

 

[TaiShang]

It has nothing to do with playing nice or naughty. There is no written rule defining the freedom of navigation. It is however used as a red herring by the US that any Chinese objection to its conducting military exercise and espionage mission in its near shore is branded as against the freedom of navigation.

And yes you can say everyone plays by the same rule, that if US can conduct military drills in China's EEZ, then China can as well vice versa, but China doesn't want to conduct military drill anywhere near the US, nor does it want the US to so so in its own backyard. So it naturally wants to better define the rule in its favor. And how is China going to convince the US to accept that? It can't. So the only thing it can do is to deter and disrupt US action that it deems unfavorable, so as to become the norm, or an unwritten rule, just like the current interpretation on the "freedom of navigation". Until it is the US interest to better define or change the rule, that's the best China can and will do.

In a sense, it is an attempt to change conventions, which corresponds well with China's growing capabilities and influence.

As long as it is possible to abstain from directly engaging the US, China will do that; and will set up its own alternative norms, like it attempts to do with the AIIB.

But, the maritime plane, given how widespread the US presence is, is one area that a confrontation is unavoidable as to the norms and rules of coexistence.

The competition and struggle will continue in a foreseeable future as the two sides will not back down easily.

 

[hoangsa]

USS Lassen US ship is patrolled closed to reclaimation works where Chinese robbed our Reefs, man made Island is never recognized by rules of international law.

Le Ba Hung, oversea Vietnamese, commander of USS Lassen warship.

Obama is very smart to send this war Lassen ship with her great Commander to challenge big mouth Chinese. So what ? What can you do ? Only bully small poor fishing boat.

US said : "...a small fishing ship or a strong destroyer all have the same right on the international sea..." and US acted to make it happen. Bravo US. Chinese said A and they do B. Nowaday, it is really crazy to listen Chinese. In fact when I read newspapaper, what Chinese say, even Xi Jinping, I usually ignor because they just talk for fun, never do or do totally differently. Poor them.

 

[TaiShang]

The main goal for the Pinoys and these Viets have always been: US will stop China's land reclamations and constructions. If the only thing the US does is sending recon planes or ships for patrol what has actually been achieved? None of these objectives , other than yup we Americans can come and go as we please in International waters.

The above animals go nuts jumping with joy for such an accomplishment. Point taken, now we get back to work once again. What is the US gonna do once we launch our Southern ADIZ? Or what are the Viets expecting the Americans gonna do on their behalf?

ADIZ over SCS? Nothing more than what they did with ADIZ over ECS.

It is usually like this:

1. China changes the reality on the ground.
2. Small countries get sad and angry.
3. US pulls a stunt that is inconclusive and has nothing to do with the new reality on the ground
4. Small countries get super excited.
5. The stunts is over. The US goes back where it comes from.
6. Small powers slowly forget about it.
7. China changes another reality on the ground.
8. Small countries get sad and angry.
9. ...

So long as it buys us time, our construction and build-up continues, I am fine with this -- US harasses, China responses back, dispatches some vessels, the US gets lost until the next time.

It is couple of months between these incidents, which is good enough a window of opportunity to build carriers on the SCS.

 

[Dungeness]

Islands were drawn closer to our mainland, to demonstrate that Islands do belong to us, Vietnam.

It would have saved both of us a lot of troubles if you could actually pull all those islands closer to Vietnam.

 

[terranMarine]

ADIZ over SCS? Nothing more than what they did with ADIZ over ECS.

It is usually like this:

1. China changes the reality on the ground.
2. Small countries get sad and angry.
3. US pulls a stunt that is inconclusive and has nothing to do with the new reality on the ground
4. Small countries get super excited.
5. The stunts is over. The US goes back where it comes from.
6. Small powers slowly forget about it.
7. China changes another reality on the ground.
8. Small countries get sad and angry.
9. ...

So long as it buys us time, our construction and build-up continues, I am fine with this US harasses, China responses back, dispatches some vessels, the US gets lost until the next time.

It is couple of months between these incidents, which is good enough a window of opportunity to build stationary carriers on the SCS.

And this is how we play weiqi, US can only repeat the same move over and over again while China gain more grounds as time goes by.

 

[Solomon2]

China is the first claimant to the region in the modern era when nation like Philippine and Vietnam were still colonies of the west. Especially compare to Philippine whose border is well defined under the Paris Treaty between Spain and the US that excludes it from any of the islands in the South China Sea, Chinese claim are much stronger.
Beyond that, there is the Japanese occupation, which by Treaty of Taipei with ROC it has relinquished all control over the islands in SCS. And further back, the Chinese-Vietnamese Boundary convention in 1887 signed with the French also confirmed Qing's ownership of the Spratly and Paracel islands.

I don't think this is China's position, that it is "first claimant." Rather, China's position is that these areas are China's and that other claims don't exist. This makes resolving the issue impossible - which, in my opinion, is what the CCP wants right now.

 

[TaiShang]

And this is how we play weiqi, US can only repeat the same move over and over again while China gain more grounds as time goes by.

The point is never let the frog know that the water is heating up to the level of incapacitating it.

I see this recent US move as a strategic one to take the extra air that was culminated over time inside some VN-JP-PH right wingers/nationalists. Sort of a safe-valve.

As a great power of commitments and hard alliances, the US has to do that from time to time.

But, when it comes to real action, the US often falls short of actual delivery in the face of a great power/near equal.

The best historical case is what has been going on in Syria. I am not even bringing up the Ukraine, Iranian nuclear or DPRK issues.

 

[xunzi]

sure continue installing defences, but these islands are of symbolic value only, in a serious conflict they would be quickly resurfaced. Think of them as stationary carriers. Useful against those without the means to retaliate.

We will speed up our build up. No need to make a big deal out of nothing especially it is our territory. Why can't we build in our territory? It makes no sense to anyone looking at this.. Those islands will be useful to gather intelligence in time of war against all kinds of enemy. There are indeed a good stationary carriers that are unsinkable.

 

[Dungeness]

China was ruled by Manchus before. You lost your independence from 1644 to 1912. Nine dashed claim of China in 1948 is to late and baseless.

In the past the distance is relative. There is enough to demonstrated that Hoang Sa and Truong Sa is territory of Vietnam.



When our Emperor Minh Mang ruled Vietnam, Chinese were slaves of Manchurian. Minh Mang is descent of Nguyen Kim, he is Kinh Vietnamese.

Nguyễn Kim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We mark Hainan island as Vietnem on the map, is it enough to demonstrate Vietnam belong to China?