South China Sea Forum

[Viet]

My comment on Philippine Star.

Phl case vs China will fail - US expert | Philippine Star

you are a smart guy.

I believe Vietnam can continue copy from China. why not unite first Indochina and then later the whole SE Asia under Vietnamese banner? Second, Vietnam can close security agreements with America, Russia and Japan.

 

[Zero_wing]

Then what's your worry chinaman?

 

[Zero_wing]

Why did you guys let so many Chinese into your country? I mean it doesn't add up. China is not on good terms with you so why? India would never allow so many Chinese to set up shop and dominate our economy. I'm curious.

Because are open country we love people its our greatest streagth and weakness but this our chinese filipinos they are one of us so no problems here otherwise how the can they owned businesses without a large filipino business partner that must own 60% of the business under Philippine law so they are filipinos again dont let the chinaman imperial trash feed you with propaganda they just trying to create trouble here just like anyway else they have set their own sites in so ignore those stupid arrogant trash people.

 

[Martian2]

You guys seem to like trolling my posts. I'll just create a new thread.

 

[Martian2]

My comment on Philippine Star.

Phl case vs China will fail - US expert | Philippine Star

 

[Martian2]

The bottom line is that military power decides national boundaries.

UNCLOS is a waste of time.

Whoever has the military might will draw the map. It's that simple.

 

[Viet]

The bottom line is that military power decides national boundaries.

UNCLOS is a waste of time.

Whoever has the military might will draw the map. It's that simple.

so jungle´s law should prevail?

when and how do you want to start the war? don´t waste our time.

 

[Martian2]

It has always been might makes right.

How did NATO carve Kosovo from Serbia? Was it military force or at the United Nations. Hint: It wasn't the U.N.

How about Israel annexing chunk after chunk of Palestinian land? Same thing. It's Israeli military power.

How about Russian annexation of Georgian territory? Might makes right again.

How about Russian annexation of Crimea? Still military force.

How about probable Russian annexation of Ukraine? Still Russian military power.

Thus, military power has always decided territorial disputes.
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To answer your question, the territorial dispute between China and Vietnam will be decided by military force. I believe the result will be the Chinese annexation of Vietnam. I can't think of any other outcome.

 

[Srinivas]

The author is emphasizing on the fact that China may not obey UNCLOS and will try to negotiate bilaterally.

But legally Philippines has a strong case and Chinese have no basis in claiming the islands except some random sketches of Manchu time.

 

[Martian2]

Regarding ITLOS, the United States has refused to ratify UNCLOS. Thus, the United States does not recognize ITLOS.

Russia also does not recognize ITLOS.

The United States and Russia will not compromise their sovereignty and they have refused to recognize ITLOS. Similarly, China must not compromise its sovereignty and should ignore ITLOS.

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"News Analysis: Int'l tribunal not solution to South China Sea tensions

May 13, 2012 - The United States is among 34 nations that have not ratified the UNCLOS and therefore officially do not recognize it, he added. ... the Philippines does bring the case to the ITLOS, China is not obliged to appear in the tribunal, ..."
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"Russia refused arbitration proceedings on the Arctic Sunrise case

Oct 24, 2013 - Russia refuses to recognize the authority of the arbitration on the Arctic ... and the International Tribunal on the law of the sea that it does not ..."

 

[Srinivas]

But China is a signatory of UNCLOS which is an international Law. USA and Russia were not signatories.

UNCLOS is implemented world wide. On the basis of UNCLOS Philippines can challenge China, what do China have to counter Philippines???

Regarding ITLOS, the United States has refused to ratify UNCLOS. Thus, the United States does not recognize ITLOS.

Russia also does not recognize ITLOS.

The United States and Russia will not compromise their sovereignty and they have refused to recognize ITLOS. Similarly, China must not compromise its sovereignty and should ignore ITLOS.

----------
"News Analysis: Int'l tribunal not solution to South China Sea tensions

May 13, 2012 - The United States is among 34 nations that have not ratified the UNCLOS and therefore officially do not recognize it, he added. ... the Philippines does bring the case to the ITLOS, China is not obliged to appear in the tribunal, ..."
----------
"Russia refused arbitration proceedings on the Arctic Sunrise case

Oct 24, 2013 - Russia refuses to recognize the authority of the arbitration on the Arctic ... and the International Tribunal on the law of the sea that it does not ..."

UNCLOS explained: Why China’s claims in South China Sea are invalid
MANILA, Philippines — With a little over a month before the Philippines submits its written arguments to the international Permanent Court of Arbitration, Solicitor General Francis Jardeleza publicly spoke for the first time about the basis of the Philippines’ case against China’s claim to nearly the entire South China/West Philippine Sea.

“You need to have land before you can have rights to the sea. It’s as simple as that.You cannot just have rights to the sea without owning land,” Jardeleza said in a forum in the University of the Philippines (UP) law center, citing the basic principle of the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

China, in 2009, submitted to the UN its “nine-dash line” claim that covers the entire South China Sea, including parts of the Philippines’ western seaboard from the provinces of Ilocos Norte up to Palawan.

China’s claim, however, has been repeatedly called invalid and not in accordance with UNCLOS, which the Philippines ratified in 1986 and China in 1996.

Maritime features

The UNCLOS states three different types of maritime features that allow for the waters surrounding a country to be claimed as part of its territory.

The first are “Islands” defined as “a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water and above water at high tide,” Jardeleza said.

Islands, such as Luzon, entitles the country that owns it to a 12 nautical mile (approximately 22 kilometers) territorial sea from the coastline with which it has full sovereignty. A country can exclude foreign entities from its territorial sea.

The island is also entitled to a 200 nm (approximately 370 km) exclusive economic zone (EEZ), which gives the country the sole right to exploit the resources within it such as fish and also mineral and oil reserves, if any.

The second are “rocks or reefs” that are mostly below water but have rocky protrusions above water during high tide. The important point under UNCLOS states that a maritime feature is a rock if “it cannot sustain human habitation or economic life on its own,” Jardeleza said.

Such mostly submerged features are entitled to only a 12 nm territorial sea and no EEZ. Examples of such are Bajo de Masinloc, also known as Panatag shoal or Scarborough shoal, which lies 120 nm off the coast of Zambales province.

The shoal is a submerged coral reef with a rocky protrusion that is three meters above the water during high tide. It cannot be classified as an island because it cannot sustain economic activity or humans on its own, Jardeleza said.

The third type of maritime features called “low tide elevation” are submerged rocks and reefs that are not visible above water. This type of maritime feature is not entitled to any territorial sea or EEZ.

Contested Island groups

There are two island groups, Paracel Islands and Spratlys Islands, and one shoal, Scarborough, in South China Sea/West Philippine Sea that are the subject of maritime disputes between several countries.

The Paracel Islands is disputed by Vietnam and China only. The Philippines has no interest in it because it is far from the country’s EEZ.

Scarborough shoal off the coast of Zambales lies within the Philippines (EEZ) but has been exclusively under the control of the Chinese since the 2012 standoff.

The most controversial is the Spratly Group of Islands that is claimed by China, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

Spratly Islands is composed of more than 140 maritime features of which only 40 are above water some of the time [and of that 40] only 20 are above water at high tide, according toJardeleza.

“The claim of the Philippines in the arbitration is that none of the features occupied or controlled by China is entitled to a 200 nm EEZ,” he said.

“You don’t have to be a rocket scientist, the [nine-dash line] claim violates UNCLOS. The most that China can claim should only be 200 nm outside of Hainan,” Jardeleza said.

Eight features under protest

The case submitted by the Philippines to the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) concerns eight maritime features that are currently under the control of China.

The first four are low tide elevations that are completely submerged: Mischief Reef, which is 130 nm from Palawan, Kennan Reef (180 nm), Gaven Reef (205 nm) and Subi Reef (230nm).

“These are all below water at high tide. They’re not entitled to anything. No territorial sea, no EEZ. But all of these four are physically occupied by China,” Jardeleza said.

China has constructed concrete structures on the reefs including helicopter landing pads over the years since 1995 but that does not give them entitlements to the seas around it.

The other four are rocks or reefs that are, at most, entitled to only 12 nm. These are Scarborough shoal, 120 nm from Luzon, Johnson reef 180 (nm from Palawan), Cuarteron reef (240nm from Palawan) and Fiery Cross reef (255 nm from Palawan).

“The position of the Philippines is [China's] nine-dash line is invalid. It violates UNCLOS. The four reefs that are below water all the time are entitled to no rights and the four are rocks which would only have 12 nautical miles,” Jardeleza said.



Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/99689/unclos-explained-why-chinas-claims-in-south-china-sea-are-invalid#ixzz2xonwBCT4
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[BoQ77]

Don't spread lies. This is real China.

View attachment 23119

Do you really think Merkel would be stupid that way?

Do you means Actually Merkel gave this map to Xi ? the Japan and China map ?
No She did give Xi the proper China map without Senkaku islands, without Tibet, Xinjiang, without any islands of SCS ...

 

[Nike]

How about giving all the South Chinese Sea islands and islets to Indonesia, it will solve the problems between Phil and China. No Islands no Problems for you two

 

[Jlaw]

Not encough, negotiating with Philippine is wasting time, Only force can solve it, get it back or not, one shot.

There are certain things Cpc can do to pacify the Philippines but they will not do because I think it will hurt China's economy more than Phillipines because China has trade surplus with them? CPC leadership are too greedy and lack the will to do anything too drastic.

Why did you guys let so many Chinese into your country? I mean it doesn't add up. China is not on good terms with you so why? India would never allow so many Chinese to set up shop and dominate our economy. I'm curious.

Chinese have been trading and cultural exchanges with Philippines for centuries. It is not something that just happens overnight. In the days gone by, my ancestors were not weaklings. If the phillipines refused at that time, they would have launch a military campaign against them. What can phillipines do at that time but to oblige.

 

[Zero_wing]

Henderson Brooks Report is not official? LOL, and you are officially a retard.



LOL, you are just a typical retarded coward. I guess that makes you a Hindutva.

Wow thats civilized stupid arrogant jerk

There are certain things Cpc can do to pacify the Philippines but they will not do because I think it will hurt China's economy more than Phillipines because China has trade surplus with them? CPC leadership are too greedy and lack the will to do anything too drastic.



Chinese have been trading and cultural exchanges with Philippines for centuries. It is not something that just happens overnight. In the days gone by, my ancestors were not weaklings. If the phillipines refused at that time, they would have launch a military campaign against them. What can phillipines do at that time but to oblige.

One we are not like taking kindgons and adding them in your own see that is how china was made made of blood of conqured people and your ancestors never claim anything this new and made up you guys were trading goods i guess they never taught you that in maoist schools so stop poluting the web with your nonsese