South Asian nations should work to alleviate poverty: PM Hasina to Pakistani High Commissioner

[bluesky]

Basically Bhutto was not ready to accept a Bengali being the head of the govt. in Pakistan for some reason and wanted it all for himself. I still don't get this "idhar hum, udhar tum" business....

I think you are too simplifying things between Bengali, Punjabi, Pathan or Sindhi, Baluch. The issue was the 6-point demand by the PAL party. This is what ZA Bhutto did not want to give because it would have caused more bifurcation in the west. This is what he and other politicians belonging to Muslim League and other parties thought at that time.

Perhaps, you are not aware that Khwaja Nazimuddin became the 2nd Governer General of Pakistan after the death of Quaid-e-Azam. He again became the PM of Pakistan.

Iskandar Mirza became also the President of Pakistan. He belonged to the House of Mir Zafar Ali Khan, the Nawab of Bengal.

In between, there are Muhammed Ali Bogra and Hussein Shahid Suhrawardy who became also the PM.

After east Pakistan seceded, Nurul Amin became also the PM of Pakistan.

 

[Bengal71]

Nobody sided with anyone in any attorocities.
A rebellion is quashed by any country of the world with force. Give me one example from anywhere in the world where the country's military went soft on an armed rebellion?
Pakistan army was no different.
Bihari people and many bengalis, later called and killed as "Rojakar" supported Pakistan army against an armed militancy, and weren't wrong.
It was an ideological support, not a practical one.
For Mukti Bahini, it didn't matter. They went on a killing spree as soon as Pakistan army surrendered.
They would stop people at random and make them say some Bengali language phrases , which only a native Bengali could pronounce correctly. If you didn't say it right , you were dead anyway, support for Pakistan army or not.
Some Bengali students did volunteer at road stops with Pakistan army, for random checks to stop weapons transport.
However now I regret that why our elders didn't pickup weapons and fight against Mukti Bahini.
They were killed anyway and made penny less, just for being against splitting the country. They should have fought and killed a few Mukti Bahini, before being killed themselves.
As for Pakistan army, thee wee many soldiers who got captured by Mukti Bahini, nine of them survived and met a horrible end.
This is an actual picture of Pakistani soldiers being tortured by Mukti Bahini . If Pakistani army quashing armed rebellion was an attorocity, so was this ?
View attachment 787734

I don't care about your reasoning about what was a 'rebellion' and whether it was legit to be quashed by means of a genocide.

I also don't support any atrocity committed against people of any variety whether Bengalis or Biharis. I also don't consider the Mukti bahini a party that was one the wrong side of history, bar a some violations committed by them. The Bihari people throughout the entire was sided with the Pak Army and assisted them in committing crimes against humanity against Bengalis, they themselves also committed those. So I don't want to do a one sided judgement of rebuking the mukti bahini, pak army and all their collaborators committed thousand times more crimes than mukti bahini did, in fact their crime is negligible.

 

[UKBengali]

Not entirely true.
Both sides benefited from mutual trade.
Raw materials produced in East Pakistan were bought by industrial base in West Pakistan. That was processed and manufactured then exported to foreign countries and also back to East Pakistan.
After 1971 , Bangladesh had to sell raw materials to India and other foreign countries, and buy back finished goods at higher prices than what they got from West Pakistan.
Likewise West Pakistan had to increase Agricultural output and import from other countries, and lost a finished goods market.

BD is the fastest growing large developing economy in the world with a GDP in excess of 350 billion US dollars compared to Pakistan's 300 billion US dollars. It has a population 20% less of Pakistan.

GDP per capita is expected to grow at 6% per year over the next 5 years while Pakistan is expected to do around 2-3%. If things stay this way then in 15-20 years BD will end up appreciably wealthier than Pakistan.

BD had no benefit from the trade between 1947-1971 as it was always one-sided in favour of Pakistan.

An independent BD in 1947 could easily have been as prosperous as Malaysia now. It is a unitary secular country that focuses on mainly social and economic development, unlike Pakistan and India with their different ethnic groups and focus on religion(Islam and Hinduism) and land.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

An independent BD in 1947 could easily have been as prosperous as Malaysia now. It is a unitary secular country that focuses on mainly social and economic development, unlike Pakistan and India with their different ethnic groups and focus on religion(Islam and Hinduism) and land.

BD should be way ahead of its neighbours, not marginally better. No insurgency , civil war , tension between different groups (not on the level of the two states mentioned above +Burma). There is potential , but the advantages are not being exploited

 

[UKBengali]

BD should be way ahead of its neighbours, not marginally better. No insurgency , civil war , tension between different groups (not on the level of the two states mentioned above +Burma). There is potential , but the advantages are not being exploited

Well the 1970s was recovery from the exploitation of 1947-1971, the devastation of the 1971 civil war and Pakistan's scorched earth policy during the war. Development only started proper in the 1980s with the setting up of the garments industry.

Average BD GDP growth by decade:

1980s: 4%
1990s: 5%
2000s: 6%
2010s: 7%
2020s: Hopefully BD manages 8% but 7% as forecast would still be decent.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

There was massive anti-Pakistan propaganda sponsored by Indian govt. as expected. But the army folks who fought in the war have compiled sector by sector histories replete with detail. In the final analysis, despite the schemes of Bhutto and the rantings/ravings of Niazi ("Mai is haramzad kaum ki nasal badal dunga"), this was an unwinnable war of attrition for Pakistan, from logistics viewpoint alone.

The launching of Operation searchlight in Dhaka in 25th March '71 was a very, very bad decision. Tanks and Army troops were deployed and they mowed down civilians with abandon, even ignorant rickshaw pullers trying to make a living in the curfew. The optics were really bad and India gained from this. The war culminated in December 1971 with the Indian Army stripping Bangladesh of any war booty and loot they could unbolt from the infra. There are concrete footage of Indian Army carting away even water faucets, not to mention valuable industrial machinery and of course arms.

The Indian influence did not subside until General Ziaur-Rahman appeared on the political scene sometime after the assassination of the Sheikh Mujib family. He established SAARC and made amends with Pakistan by bringing foreign policy to an even keel and not so dependent on Indian whims.

After Hasina came back, she did make 1971 her 'platform' but soft-pedaled making it all about her dynasty, fearing she'd get overthrown in a coup again. She also played down her allegiance to India publicly - however we all know how anti-Pakistani she still is, which I'd say is personal to some level.

For those who lost loved ones in 1971, memories of that time are still strong (as in Pakistan), however I'd dare say that majority of people in Bangladesh see 1971 as a major folly of Pakistan military (and leadership) and a gain for India, both militarily and commercially.

To this day, Indians are gaining faida from Bangladesh at the rate of about $60 Billion yearly, despite treating our nation and our interests like $hit.

Ultimately, Bangladesh and Pakistan are natural allies due to mutual need, aligned geopolitically as a counterpoint against India. This is not just a military viewpoint, it is also a strategic and financial one. Add the China equation, and all cries calling for India-alignment in Bangladesh become pointless.

The sooner most intelligent people in Pakistan and Bangladesh realize it (and work toward normalize relations between both nations), the better it is.

I remember imran Sakar leader of a nationalist movement who held mass rallies across Dhaka wanting his leaders to expel the Pak diplomatic mission.

 

[Aesterix]

I don't care about your reasoning about what was a 'rebellion' and whether it was legit to be quashed by means of a genocide.

I also don't support any atrocity committed against people of any variety whether Bengalis or Biharis. I also don't consider the Mukti bahini a party that was one the wrong side of history, bar a some violations committed by them. The Bihari people throughout the entire was sided with the Pak Army and assisted them in committing crimes against humanity against Bengalis, they themselves also committed those. So I don't want to do a one sided judgement of rebuking the mukti bahini, pak army and all their collaborators committed thousand times more crimes than mukti bahini did, in fact their crime is negligible.

And I don't care what you wrote. There was no genocide carried out In East Pakistan by Pakistan army. Mukti Bahini killed far more Bengalis than PA, after branding them Rojakar.

BD is the fastest growing large developing economy in the world with a GDP in excess of 350 billion US dollars compared to Pakistan's 300 billion US dollars. It has a population 20% less of Pakistan.

GDP per capita is expected to grow at 6% per year over the next 5 years while Pakistan is expected to do around 2-3%. If things stay this way then in 15-20 years BD will end up appreciably wealthier than Pakistan.

BD had no benefit from the trade between 1947-1971 as it was always one-sided in favour of Pakistan.

An independent BD in 1947 could easily have been as prosperous as Malaysia now. It is a unitary secular country that focuses on mainly social and economic development, unlike Pakistan and India with their different ethnic groups and focus on religion(Islam and Hinduism) and land.

Yeah, before throwing all the blame on Pakistan. Look where is Malaysia in corruption and where is Bangladesh.
Likewise Malaysia is not reliant on any country.
Bangladesh is a vassal state of India since 1971.
If just numbers are seen then India is a first world country. Numbers don't always depict the actual situation on the ground.

 

[UKBengali]

Yeah, before throwing all the blame on Pakistan. Look where is Malaysia in corruption and where is Bangladesh.
Likewise Malaysia is not reliant on any country.
Bangladesh is a vassal state of India since 1971.
If just numbers are seen then India is a first world country. Numbers don't always depict the actual situation on the ground.

BD has some blame for it's poverty now but a lot can be attributed to Pakistan. Union with Pakistan put BD back by many decades economically.

Yes Pakistanis are overall a little richer than Pakistan due to "accumulated wealth" but this will change over the course of this decade as BD'shis will soon have higher living standards.

The below are real:

BD GDP per capita: 2,100 US dollars compared to 1,500 US dollars for Pakistan. Remember just 15 years ago Pakistan had twice the GDP per capita of BD.

BD GDP per capita growth: 6% a year forecast for next 5 years compared to 2-3% expected for Pakistan. Remember those of us who got criticised when we said that CPEC is not a magic wand to turn around Pakistan's economy as it needed major social and infrastructure reform as well.

BD foreign reserves: 50 billion US dollars compared to 25 billion US dollars for Pakistan.

The above is real and happening and it shows BD galloping while Pakistan walks. You do not have to be a mathematician to work out what the massive gap there would be between BD and Pakistan in 15-20 years if this trend continues.

Look, we are not here to blame current Pakistanis for what happened at least 50 years ago but BD'shis do expect this dark episode to be acknowledged and not white-washed.

 

[Aesterix]

BD has some blame for it's poverty now but a lot can be attributed to Pakistan. Union with Pakistan put BD back by many decades economically.

Yes Pakistanis are overall a little richer than Pakistan due to "accumulated wealth" but this will change over the course of this decade as BD'shis will soon have higher living standards.

The below are real:

BD GDP per capita: 2,100 US dollars compared to 1,500 US dollars for Pakistan. Remember just 15 years ago Pakistan had twice the GDP per capita of BD.

BD GDP per capita growth: 6% a year forecast for next 5 years compared to 2-3% expected for Pakistan. Remember those of us who got criticised when we said that CPEC is not a magic wand to turn around Pakistan's economy as it needed major social and infrastructure reform as well.

BD foreign reserves: 50 billion US dollars compared to 25 billion US dollars for Pakistan.

The above is real and happening and it shows BD galloping while Pakistan walks. You do not have to be a mathematician to work out what the massive gap there would be between BD and Pakistan in 15-20 years if this trend continues.

 

[UKBengali]

Yes there were atrocities committed by BD'shis and that needs to be condemned.

 

[SkyWolf]

There was massive anti-Pakistan propaganda sponsored by Indian govt. as expected. But the army folks who fought in the war have compiled sector by sector histories replete with detail. In the final analysis, despite the schemes of Bhutto and the rantings/ravings of Niazi ("Mai is haramzad kaum ki nasal badal dunga"), this was an unwinnable war of attrition for Pakistan, from logistics viewpoint alone.

The launching of Operation searchlight in Dhaka in 25th March '71 was a very, very bad decision. Tanks and Army troops were deployed and they mowed down civilians with abandon, even ignorant rickshaw pullers trying to make a living in the curfew. The optics were really bad and India gained from this. The war culminated in December 1971 with the Indian Army stripping Bangladesh of any war booty and loot they could unbolt from the infra. There are concrete footage of Indian Army carting away even water faucets, not to mention valuable industrial machinery and of course arms.

The Indian influence did not subside until General Ziaur-Rahman appeared on the political scene sometime after the assassination of the Sheikh Mujib family. He established SAARC and made amends with Pakistan by bringing foreign policy to an even keel and not so dependent on Indian whims.

After Hasina came back, she did make 1971 her 'platform' but soft-pedaled making it all about her dynasty, fearing she'd get overthrown in a coup again. She also played down her allegiance to India publicly - however we all know how anti-Pakistani she still is, which I'd say is personal to some level.

For those who lost loved ones in 1971, memories of that time are still strong (as in Pakistan), however I'd dare say that majority of people in Bangladesh see 1971 as a major folly of Pakistan military (and leadership) and a gain for India, both militarily and commercially.

To this day, Indians are gaining faida from Bangladesh at the rate of about $60 Billion yearly, despite treating our nation and our interests like $hit.

Ultimately, Bangladesh and Pakistan are natural allies due to mutual need, aligned geopolitically as a counterpoint against India. This is not just a military viewpoint, it is also a strategic and financial one. Add the China equation, and all cries calling for India-alignment in Bangladesh become pointless.

The sooner most intelligent people in Pakistan and Bangladesh realize it (and work toward normalize relations between both nations), the better it is.

Bilal is one of the most even-keeled, intelligent contributor on pdf. Zabardast.

 

[Bilal9]

Bilal is one of the most even-keeled, intelligent contributor on pdf. Zabardast.

Shukria Bhaisaab. I don't deserve these accolades. You are too kind.

 

[UKBengali]

Ok guys,

I admit I got involved in derailing this thread but all S Asians nations are a mess in terms of poverty alleviation. Even Sri Lanka has hit the buffers as it's growth proved unsustainable.

If S Asian nations put politics to one side and focus on creating a mutually beneficial trading relationships then this would up economic growth in all countries.

 

[Aesterix]

Yes there were atrocities committed by BD'shis and that needs to be condemned.

I don't know where you live in UK.
I am in Manchester and here a place called Hyde has a large Bangladeshi diaspora .
I go to juma prayer sometimes in Bangladeshis mosque.
Occasionally someone talks about 1971 and I reply back . They seem to know nothing about Bhola cyclone, Mukti Bahini attorocities, 1973 74 famine.
Your history is not being taught to you in its true form.

Plus nobody knows that Sheikh mujeeb wasn't the founder of BD. It was Major Zia ur Rahman

When zia took over Chittagong radio and announced freedom, he had no contact with Sheikh mujeeb as he was in prison ai Mianwali , west Pakistan.

 

[Saiful Islam]

I don't know where you live in UK.
I am in Manchester and here a place called Hyde has a large Bangladeshi diaspora .
I go to juma prayer sometimes in Bangladeshis mosque.
Occasionally someone talks about and I reply back . They seem to know nothing about Bhola cyclone, Mukti Bahini attorocities, 1973 74 famine.
Your history is not being taught to you in its true form.

Plus nobody knows that Sheikh mujeeb wasn't the founder of BD. It was Major Zia ur Rahman

When zia took over Chittagong radio and announced freedom, he had no contact with Sheikh mujeeb as he was in prison ai Mianwali , west Pakistan.

In Hyde you are asking Sylhetis about Bhola (which arguably didn't impact their lives as it happened in the south of the country and where Sylhetis are concerned, all is about Sylhet).
So don't expect much of them. They were probably taught till class 5/6/7 and immediately came to the west. Although again it's news to me that they wouldn't know about the Bhola Cyclone.

The reason why we don't know about Mukti Bahini atrocities is the bahini factions differed region by region. So no, not all factions committed atrocities and it's news to many of us, as they were homegrown, normal people, mainly 16/17 years old at the time.