South Africa, Brazil ready for A-Darter missile test

[Arsalan]

Agreed...but good political strategy can significantly help overcome those barriers and objections. The U214 and Erieye programs were no easy feat for our negotiators and lobbyists, but they pulled through.

the U214 seem to have gone down the drain sir..
that was a real loss...

 

[Arsalan]

A-Darter is a 5th generation WVRAAM, and it is great to hear that PAF is on the list of prime potential customers. South Africa's Denel also has a next-generation BVRAAM in development, it is officially called T-Darter...which is a bit interesting since we heard PAF use this term a lot. Perhaps this could indicate a connection?

the T-Darter, if PAF gets its hands onto it will also be a great sset.
PAF really need to diversify its arsenal and SA/Brazil weapons will help in this regard!
here is a news article about the next generation T-Darter missile:

Denel conceptualises new missile

BY LEON ENGELBRECHT , ITWEB SENIOR WRITER

[ Johannesburg, 14 April 2008 ] - Denel Dynamics, the smart weapons division of the state arms maker, is conceptualising a new high-performance radar-guided missile that, if it comes to fruition, will provide SA's fleet of Gripen advanced light fighter aircraft its main punch.

The advanced weapon will also have substantial export potential and could gain the country billions of rand in foreign exchange in addition to boosting the local ICT skills and know-how base.

The missile is known as the T Darter and is being designed to replace the R Darter (Radar Darter) currently in service with the SA Air Force (SAAF), where it is known as the V4. Cabinet, in 2003, decided to retire the V4 when the Cheetah fighter jet was withdrawn from service as the missile contained Israeli technology and required continued assistance from that country to remain operational.

Denel Dynamics CEO Jan Wessels says the T Darter will join their A Darter, currently under joint development with Brazil, under the wings of the Gripen, which has just started entering service with the SAAF. Last month SAAF started phasing out the Cheetah and the V4.

“T Darter is a concept radar-guided missile,” Wessels says. “We are [proposing to use] some of our existing technologies and [are] looking for partners for the rest. We will typically provide the nose of this missile, which is the radar and are looking for a partner for the ‘back end'” he says.

Other than the radar, the ‘front end' also includes a number of proprietary processors that guide the weapon to its intended target at ranges that can extend to over 60km – the striking distance of the V4.

for more details:
Denel conceptualises new missile | ITWeb

regards!

 

[Quwa]

is there new movement on the U214? - the issue is 'cash' which we dont have!

PakDef is saying that U-214 is still on...last couple years it was struck down by Zardari & co, but now it has returned.

 

[farhan_9909]

i think for jf-17 IRIS-T is better then this one

 

[Quwa]

i think for jf-17 IRIS-T is better then this one

IRIS-T and A-Darter are both 5th-generation WVRAAM. Even though IRIS-T may be better, the A-Darter will probably be less costly and easier to acquire with technology transfer. In the end, the A-Darter will be almost as good as IRIS-T, and Pakistan could have a secured line (if it produces them locally) of these missiles and equip them fleet-wide on JF-17 & FC-20 with a good HMD/S.

However, the PAF might be able to get IRIS-T for the F-16s.

 

[khurasaan1]

is there new movement on the U214? - the issue is 'cash' which we dont have!

Dont worry Alhamdolillah we alwayz have enough cash for any deal..and this deal will go through soon inshallah....

 

[khurasaan1]

the U214 seem to have gone down the drain sir..
that was a real loss...

Bro...Allah is helping Pak in strange way people cant even think about it ...dont worry keep faith in Allah and we will see miracles...we will never be in loss by anyway inshallah...just keep patience ....
Alhamdolillah.....Pak is going to rule the world

 

[Super Falcon]

Si A darter Missile is bettter than AIM 120 or what which is the best air to air missile

 

[Patriot]

Super Falcon A Darter is close to short and medium ranger missile while AIM120C5 which PAF operates is long range missile having huge range.A Darter is equivalent of AIM9X with off bore sight capability.

 

[rizhussain44]

Super Falcon A Darter is close to short and medium ranger missile while AIM120D which PAF operates is long range missile having huge range.A Darter is equivalent of AIM9X with off bore sight capability.

You mean AIM120C-5, right? I don't think we have AIM120D.

 

[Patriot]

yeah; sorry it's fixed.

 

[SBD-3]

I still think PAF should have invested some money in the project to ensure that we get the TOT to build them in house. If A darter is a 5th gen SRAAAM, then it would be good to have it on the thunder and even f16s. I hope they buy it with inhouse building rights.

Same could be said about Rooivak chopper which was suspended by SA. It was about 140 Million USD project. A 50-50 Meant Pakistan only 70 Million. But there must be a few things which dictate one's priorities, like Pakistan. FC-1 had a greater sales potential (Also a big order from PAF alone) which would lower its per unit cost as well but same would not be the case with Rooivak as PA would not need 100 Choopers (or Even 60). And furthermore, It is not the case that Pakistan would Jump into every JV even if it has money....You would remember that China Officially invited Pakistan to Join JFT same is the case with AK and other JVs. Even Russia officially invited India. So if SA did not invite Pakistan, This meant that they had their own priorities.

MAA1A is a bit out of date , but I suspect we bought it for some in house tinkering and start point to establish a base to build some more advanced ones in house. I suspect Piranha2s may well end up in our arsenal perhaps built in house.
Araz

IMO PAF would have acquired them for its Mirages as Brazilian AF was using it with their Mirages and the new missile would replace these missiles....I think PAF has done a very economical Shopping. These Missiles would come handy in an contingency even if not put in active service.

 

[araz]

Same could be said about Rooivak chopper which was suspended by SA. It was about 140 Million USD project. A 50-50 Meant Pakistan only 70 Million. But there must be a few things which dictate one's priorities, like Pakistan. FC-1 had a greater sales potential (Also a big order from PAF alone) which would lower its per unit cost as well but same would not be the case with Rooivak as PA would not need 100 Choopers (or Even 60). And furthermore, It is not the case that Pakistan would Jump into every JV even if it has money....You would remember that China Officially invited Pakistan to Join JFT same is the case with AK and other JVs. Even Russia officially invited India. So if SA did not invite Pakistan, This meant that they had their own priorities.

IMO PAF would have acquired them for its Mirages as Brazilian AF was using it with their Mirages and the new missile would replace these missiles....I think PAF has done a very economical Shopping. These Missiles would come handy in an contingency even if not put in active service.

Hasnain
Thank you for your post.As to the first para, as an ibnterested party PAF should have approached Denel and offered a deal they could not have refused.The same is the case with Rooviak.We had a need of 80 -90 platforms and the chopper would have come in handy with a joint venture programme.The irony is that there were no moves made and PAF just sat by.If you remember both projects were in severe need of cash injection.What we do not know is what was the assessment of PAF and PA regarding the 2 projects.I cant say if PA/PAF thought the technical difficulties might be problematic to over come.
The acquisition of MAR1 is another issue.We have technological transfer associated with it .You may well be right but I think the reason was old tech can be sold more readily and will help PAF establish a base from where it can progress.There are a lot of goodies coming and having baseline technology could mean benefit from a higher tech weapon to indegenize it.
Araz

 

[SBD-3]

The acquisition of MAR1 is another issue.We have technological transfer associated with it .You may well be right but I think the reason was old tech can be sold more readily and will help PAF establish a base from where it can progress.There are a lot of goodies coming and having baseline technology could mean benefit from a higher tech weapon to indegenize it.
Araz

I think Deal here is about Mectron MAA-1 Piranha which is an AAm comparable to AIM-9B SW.....But this is somewhat Identical to Marta 530 inservice with Mirages and Since Brazil is now interested in MAA-1B Piranha II and A-Darter so PAF would have picked these up in very low cost....just consider the same shopping from France...PAF has indeed made a smart move...
Regarding MAR-1....it is equal to US Shrike AGM but MAR-1 is an improvement over old Shrike as it out ranges the original one official range is 20 KM but actual range is according to Brazilian sources...significantly greater than this....anyways PAF would love to welcome a ARM into its production hut

 

[Arsalan]

Hasnain
Thank you for your post.As to the first para, as an ibnterested party PAF should have approached Denel and offered a deal they could not have refused.The same is the case with Rooviak.We had a need of 80 -90 platforms and the chopper would have come in handy with a joint venture programme.The irony is that there were no moves made and PAF just sat by.If you remember both projects were in severe need of cash injection.What we do not know is what was the assessment of PAF and PA regarding the 2 projects.I cant say if PA/PAF thought the technical difficulties might be problematic to over come.
The acquisition of MAR1 is another issue.We have technological transfer associated with it .You may well be right but I think the reason was old tech can be sold more readily and will help PAF establish a base from where it can progress.There are a lot of goodies coming and having baseline technology could mean benefit from a higher tech weapon to indegenize it.
Araz

Araz,
i think PA is opting to purchase with limited maintainance facility/authority some 40 odd choppers!
they are not willing to invest on ToT when they only look to accquire only 40 platforms!
PA is operating some 40 Cobras with option that some more can be accquired from US in WOT funds. with this all that is required is some two to three squadrons of latest generation choppers, either it be the SA Rooviak, turkish T-129 or the chines WZ-10 for high end/technology edge role!
for this limited number, setting up an in-house facility, investing on ToT must have been a costly option thus PA opted not to go for it...

that is only my personal view anyone may disagree!

regadrs!