South Africa, Brazil ready for A-Darter missile test

[Zarbe Momin]

How much Phiran-1 has bought Pakistan.

 

[novatoop]

Arms sales from Brazil to India (2010/07/03)​

|GOOGLE TRADUTOR|

During the official visit of Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik, commander of the Air Force of India, Brazil, and technology issues, academic and trade between the two countries' military organizations and / or local suppliers, may have been somehow addressed the issue thorny sales Mectron missiles to Pakistan, the government of New Delhi does not want to see realized, thus seeking a greater depth of businesses in the area of defense with Brazil.

The Indian concern is with the supply of different items, such as anti-missile radar MAR-1, which was acquired in 2008, with credit support from the Brazilian government, despite strong opposition from the Ministry of Strategic Affairs, 100 units were sold for 85 million euros, generating predictable diplomatic protests in India and the new air-air missile MAA-1B Piranha2 that the Pakistan Air Force could be the international launch customer. Pakistan has been, for example, the first military customer for the Phenom 100 executive jet from Embraer, which bought four.

It is noteworthy that the Mectron also produces anti-tank missiles MSS 1.2, in addition, together with Britanite produces guidance and guidance kits for conventional bombs.

The purpose of the purchases of weapons, which India wants not to become effective, which occurred on 8 and June 18, a C-130 PAF (Pakistan Air Force) took off from Sao Jose dos Campos, bound for Faisalabad, via Dakar, allegedly with about 10 tons of cargo shipped on each trip.

What is worth mentioning that between product sales and exchanges of materials for military production, foreign trade between Brazil and India could reach U.S. $ 10.000 billion, while with Pakistan would not exceed U.S. $ 500 million. Brazil, India and South Africa share a common political space, as emerging powers, often with very similar positions, including supporting each other to join the UN Security Council (Javier Bonilla).

Website: PLANOBRASIL

 

[Super Falcon]

A darters are one of the top notch missile can this missile be jammed or it can be stopped from chaff flares what type of anti jammers it has if it uses any or it is just keep tracking it targets untilll it has been destroyerd

 

[owais.usmani]

A-Darter successfully launched off SAAF Gripen​

​

The South African Air Force (SAAF) has successfully test-fired a Denel Dynamics A-Darter fifth-generation short-range imaging infra-red air-to-air missile at the company's Overberg test range east of Cape Town.

It is the latest step in the development of the R1 billion joint venture between South Africa and Brazil.

Gripen-builder SAAB says the test firing, the first, verified the integration between the missile and the aircraft. Gripen was chosen as the platform for these integration tests and has completed the them with outstanding results, said Ulf Nilsson, responsible for the Gripen program within the Aeronautics division at SAAB. "The test firing is an important milestone in the Gripen programme,” he adds. “The A-Darter missile is a collaboration and development project within the missile area between the local industry, Denel Dynamics, South Africa, and Brazil, where SAAB has a leading role for the integration of complex future missile systems".

Magnus Reineholm, SAAB project manager for the A-Darter integration added in a statement issued by the aircraft maker that the missile “and the Gripen aircraft have worked beyond our expectations and we are extremely pleased with the test firing results".

Denel Dynamics CE Jan Wessels says for his company, “as a supplier of advanced guided missile turn-key solutions, it is as important to develop technically advanced missiles as it is to ensure simplicity and ease of integration on multiple aircraft types, since our market focus is on a broad spectrum of potential customer aircraft choices. This attribute of the A-Darter missile is well demonstrated by the successful integration & clearance program on the highly advanced Gripen fighter, and bodes well for the A-Darter missile integration on a variety of further aircraft platforms.”

The SAAF is to fit the missile to its fleet of 24 workhorse BAE Systems Hawk Mk120 lead-in fighter trainers in addition to integrating it on to the 26 more sophisticated Saab Gripen C and D advanced lightweight fighter. Brazil wants the weapon for its FX-2 future fighter programme.

In April Wessels told defenceWeb the weapon, under development since March 2007 was on track and on target for delivery to the SAAF and the Brazilian Air Force from early 2013, now less than three years away. Wessels added training missiles will be delivered from 2012. In March the A-Darter completed its guided flight test. “That's where you first test it against a target,” Wessels explained in the April interview. “Now everything has to work as a system. What you now do is you have an actual infra-red target in the air, in this case a parachute flare... now you check if everything is working as a system,” he says.

The test followed a series of programme flight tests where the missile had to fly a series of pre-determined routes, or circuits, “and it is very extreme, left, right up down, all the difficult manoeuvres. But it doesn't engage a target. You are exercising its manoeuvrability. Can it pull the G's etcetera. That was done by February,” Wessels adds.

“In parallel the so-called integration missiles that went to Saab. So they have in Sweden already integrated the missile with the structure of the aircraft, the mechanical integration of the missile with the aircraft and with the avionics, which is very complex on the Gripen. They conducted a series of flight tests where they flew with this missile in extreme angles of attack up to 12G, (12 times standard earth gravity) and up to 13 700m in altitude to ensure the aircraft wasn't damaged.” The firing of the missile off the aircraft will be tested as a separate activity but it is these days fairly predictable.

“The rest of the programme is now qualification and industrialisation. So the real technology has all been solved. On a programme like this those were the risks. On a fifth generation missile like this there were many things we had never done. They have all now been ticked off. Now we can increase the reliability and maturity of the system.”



A-Darter successfully launched off SAAF Gripen

 

[Nishan_101]

Huraah!! You have done it man

 

[fatman17]

MIDDLE EAST/AFRICA
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2010


Jane's Defence Weekly


South Africa tests A-Darter missile

Helmoed-Römer Heitman JDW Correspondent - Cape Town

The first air launch of the Denel Dynamics A-Darter air-to-air missile was carried out on 17 June at Denel's Overberg Test Range near Cape Town.

The 'separation test" was carried out by Saab using a South African Air Force (SAAF) Gripen from the Test Flight and Development Centre at Overberg Air Force Base under a contract with the SAAF.

The results of the test firing have been evaluated and were "beyond our expectations", according to Magnus Reineholm, Saab's project manager for the Gripen/A-Darter integration.

Denel Dynamics Chief Executive Officer Jan Wessels told Jane's that the purpose of the test was to verify that the A-Darter is "safe to carry and release under all flight conditions - no flutter or vibration, no wayward departure from the rail - and that it is fully integrated with the complex Saab Gripen avionics and weapons bus and control systems".

He added: "All the significant, potential show-stopping technical hurdles have been crossed successfully according to the original programme schedule." Key among them are "the super-agile airframe and its flight controls, the imaging infrared seeker and its signal processing and the integration with modern aircraft avionics systems".

"The programme is now transitioning towards industrialisation for cost-effective production in South Africa and Brazil as well as integration and certification on a number of aircraft. The Gripen is the first, to be followed soon by the F-5BR in Brazil and the Hawk in South Africa and later the F-X2 in Brazil," he said.

The "good progress with the programme" has brought "a number of potential export opportunities to third parties" that are "being developed with the active support of both the South African and Brazilian defence ministries", said Wessels. These are countries that are keen to acquire a fifth-generation missile "from a fellow developing country rather than from the traditional developed economies", he said.

The next step for the A-Darter project will be a guided firing from the Gripen, which will be handled by Denel Dynamics and the SAAF.

 

[exmechman]

Hi Everybody
I am no longer part of the South African arms industry and can obviously not reveal anything that is not in the public domain. I think however that I might be able to give some insight in relation to some of the questions posed in this thread.

Some background:
South Africa and the South African Defence Force (SADF/SANDF) has over the last 40 year learnt some hard lessons in relation to trusting or relying on world powers like USA, Briton, France and China. This means South Africa has moved to a system where the industry avoids using foreign components where ever possible to ensure that we can market our products without restrictions or political strings attached.

Addressing questions:
1. The A-Darter is very much on track. The SANDF should be receiving the first training missies later in 2011 and upgrade from Iris-T to A-Darter during 2012.
2. Rooivalk exports primarily failed because it was developed with Eurocopter engines and with the intention to use Hellfire missiles. This meant that whenever Rooivalk competed against USA Apache or Eurocopter Tiger, they would just refuse to supply engines or Hellfire. South Africa thus had to develop its own version of Hellfire called Makopa (with greater range than Hellfire)
3. There are no relationship between the South African armaments industry and India. Politically the two governments often agree because we are very strongly non-aligned with any of the world powers. Some years ago we tendered for an Indian artillery contract, a dispute developed regarding anti material rifles that lead to India banning South Africa form all military sales to India which caused Denel to be in serious financial trouble as they heavily invested in the development of an artillery system for India, subsequently South Africa have also not purchased any military equipment form India for instance Brahmos that they tried to sell to us.
4. The armaments industry in South Africa receives a very small portion of their income from the government and are therefore dependant on exports. This means we sell to any country that is not under UN weapons sanctions. This include countries such as Zimbabwe, Libya, Algeria and Jordan to which countries like the USA would not be willing to sell high quality armaments. Countries like USA, Russia and France will often sell products to counties like Egypt or Iraq that appears to be the same but the armour used or the radar performance is degraded. South Africa is not a world power and does not fight foreign wars so exports receive the same product that the SANDF does and there are never any political strings attached, it is just business.
5. There have been no announcements on T-Darter in the last 2 years and Denel and the SANDF is saying nothing and also did not import anything. The R-Darter (similar to Israel Derby with >60km range) has been taken out of service and no announcement has been made on its replacement. SANDF will definitely not purchase something that is not better than the product they decommissioned. Denel definitely has the expertise; the question is whether someone is willing to pay for it, it all depends on money. My guess is SANDF will choose between the MBDA Meteor and T-Darter depending on cost.
I hope this has helped to clear up some of the questions.

 

[misterme2]

i thought India was involved in the project....didn't they sign an agreement with Brazil and SA for missile development?

 

[exmechman]

i thought India was involved in the project....didn't they sign an agreement with Brazil and SA for missile development?

To the best of my knowledge the military agreement between South Africa, Brazil and India is limited to joint Navy exercises, sending observers to each others military exercises and making training available for military personnel, the strongest focus however is on the naval security of the South Indian ocean and the South Atlantic with South Africa obviously geographically at the convergence of the two. As far as the sale and development of military equipment is concerned the relationship between South Africa and Brazil is very good and there is talk about multiple projects between the two countries. In 2000 SA and India signed an agreement but a dispute arose in relation to the sale of anti-material rifles in 2005 which caused India to ban South Africa from all military sales to India, there has been political talks to resolve the dispute between SA and India but the last thing I herd during 2010 the dispute that started in 2005 was still unresolved. There are however strong commercial trade between SA and India amounting to $7,5 billion per year.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Thank You Hon Sir for the information. We in Pakistan are very grateful to the help we have received from our South African friends. As i am sure you are aware, our Air Force has work closely with Denel and procured Precision Guided Munitions and R Darter from Denel. PAF is involved in negotiations with Denel for the A Darter, as we have been a customer of Denel for a very long time i am sure it should not be a problem.

 

[Karem]

#52 from exmechman cannot go unchallenged. Despite your protestation - You "read" like a serving Denel marketing man, you post with subjective content, scrambling for Denel credibility & business.

Sir Respectfully, allow me to elucidate and in some cases rectify some content of your post:

1. Upgrade from IRIS T to A Darter? Interesting opinion - downgrade is a more appropriate description. Do you honestly believe that IRIS T is not being upgraded as we type? I am pretty sure if Pakistan could have selected IRIS T and political impasses re Pakistan resolved - IRIS T would have been their first choice. Consider this:

Avibras chief executive Sami Hassuani believes an initial 100-200 units could be sold to international users, with Pakistan viewed as a prime candidate.

Total of 100 - 200 A-Darter versus thousands from the IRIS T consortium to host of countries including South Africa. Do quantities of missiles not speak volumes?? Wikipedia IRIS T.

2. The problem with Rooivalk as conveyed by VERY able Denel people is South Africa (Pty) Ltd. Where would South Africa be in a few decades after sale of Rooivalk (any military hardware for that matter). After Australian, Turkey, Maylasian etc marketing endeavours, the consideration (amongst others) was the existence and reliability of the selling entity - "Would Denel still exist and under whose tenure"? I do not have to remind you as to the number of attempts to sell Denel and the difficulties in trying to come to some sensible compromise. Denel is still being heavily funded by taxpayers. Your commentary re Mokopa is valid. Solid missile.

3. Re business with India - Denel tried to rip India off BIG time and as a result - India cancelled the potential business. Does one honestly believe that a buying nation never vets prices being submitted in an RFP?

In December 2005, Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee revealed that India’s Ministry of Defence had issued a Request for Information (RFI) regarding all wheeled 155mm/52-caliber self-propelled artillery systems currently available on the international market. Indian artillery officials complained that Denel (as sole-source contractor) had elevated the unit price of each G6 Renoster to about $5.5 million, about $1.78 million above the weapon system’s usual unit price.

Further complicating matters were Indian allegations of corruption on the part of Denel. In May 2005, the Indian defense minister suspended all negotiations and business with Denel, pending an investigation by the Indian Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI). The suspension order and investigation left Denel’s participation in the Indian Army’s 155mm self-propelled howitzer program twisting in the wind.

South Africa is a member of BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China & South Africa).

Pretoria sought BRIC membership over 2010 and the process for formal admission began as early as August 2010. South Africa was officially admitted as a BRIC nation on December 24, 2010 after being invited by China and the other BRIC countries to join the group.

How does one live with ones conscience being a member of the alliance yet "prostitute" oneself by selling to a country that has acknowledged differences with its neighbour? If I were Pakistan - I would be VERY concerned about the pressure India could apply to South Africa to stop the sale of weaponry to Pakistan.

4.

The armaments industry in South Africa receives a very small portion of their income from the government and are therefore dependant on exports.

What rubbish! That is blatant disinformation!

To the readers of this site, read about the ongoing bail outs the SA Tax Payer has to render to Denel and some affiliates - here is a link to a Government department press release August 2010.

w w w .dpe.gov.za/parliamentary-948 (Remove spaces in www).

30 August 2010.

Denel may be in line for another government bailout as the state-owned manufacturer of defence, aerospace and security products continues to rack up losses.
Talib Sadik, Denel's chief executive, on Friday said the group carried a debt of R1.9 billion, resulting in a R130 million interest burden in the year to March, and the group's balance sheet was weak.

Sir - you have discredited yourself - I certainly won't and don't take you seriously at all.

 

[exmechman]

In response to Karem #56

Dear sir, I do not usually post on this website and only did so to answer questions that were posted and I am really not interested in having an emotional and meaningless argument. I will therefore only respond once to your statements.

I was a member of the South African National Defence Force, I have since been in the business of providing training. I have never worked for Denel, but I am proud of my countries achievements and I am also well aware of its shortcomings.

1. South African Air Force currently use IRIS-T yet decided to fund the A-Darter development and will from 2012 be using A-Darter. If anyone thinks that the air force will waist their precious money on the development and purchase of a missile to downgrade has no understanding and quite frankly is insulting to the intelligence of the South African and Brazilian Air Force. Sales are also not an indication of quality, politics determine sales, USA purchase USA missiles, Russia buys Russian missiles, EU purchases EU missiles etc. The sale of arms systems also limit the weapons that can be used on them due to integration and the terms of sale agreements.

2. I have already addressed this issue and do not feel the need to do so again.

3. I have already addressed this point, and know the information to be accurate. The artillery system developed for India was the T6 which is a fully automated 155mm turret further developed from the G6-52 with features such as multiple rounds simultaneous impact that was integrated on an Indian Arjun tank body. India then claimed officials was bribed on a bid for anti material rifles leading to the blacklisting of Denel.
In relation to the BRICS and prostitution comment the following; Dear sir, it is time to grow up, BRICS is an economic grouping and does not include any military elements. Two of its members Russia and China in fact compete directly against each other in the market place to sell arms, and just like RSA is free to sell arms to Pakistan or any other country if it so wishes. This is the real world and how relationships between countries work, countries work together where it is in their mutual benefit and competes where it is in their national interest. Just like USA would not sell us Hellfire but now drives in MRAP vehicles we sell to them.

4. I have never said that Denel has not received any Government assistance. What I said is that Denel is dependant on exports to survive as local sales make up a small percentage of its total sales. I will include a small quote from an article, it dates form 2005 when Denel was in its worst position:

Denel's annual report revealed that its domestic market now only accounted for 42% ($760m) of its income. By comparison, 93% of American weapons manufacturer General Dynamics sales were local. BAE systems in the United Kingdom sold 78% of its goods at home. "Denel has largely lost its captive domestic funding base and no longer has the minimum domestic market demand to remain an independent contractor,"

Full article at w w w.fin24.com/Companies/Denel-situation-unsustainable-20051018

This situation forced Denel to focus on the export market, as part of that strategy it sold shareholding in some of its subsidiaries to large multinational arms manufacturers such as the 50 % sale of the munitions section to the German Rheinmetall Group, which is why it is now known as Rheinmetall Denel Munitions.

This strategy is proving to be successful as these relationships gave Denel access to markets in the EU that would not be possible without EU partners. As I previously indicated sales are determined by politics not the quality of your product. Subsequently military exports have risen from $760 million in 2005 to $1245 million in 2010. The Denel dept that you refer to of R1,9 bn equates to $284 million. Denel is owned by the state and was fully funded by the state until 1994, thereafter the state substantially decreased its purchases form Denel for the military and scrapped most of its research and development programs, this lead to Denel borrowing money to sustain some of the programs on their own. This combined with some export disasters such as the one to India lead to Denel building up this $284 million dept. The question now for the state is whether it is in the best interest of the country to leave this dept with Denel or whether it is better to pay of the dept to put Denel in a position where it can better compete in the global market as it is not getting substantial government business unlike its competitors. It is thus clear that even if the state pay of these dept it will still represent only a small percentage of Denel’s income compared to that of other armaments manufacturers with which it competes such as BAE or General Dynamics.

Defence exports for 2010 quoted from: w w w.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14712:sa-defence-exports-up&catid=7:Industry&Itemid=116

In closing sir, I posted the information on this thread to answer the questions of those who were interested to know the facts. Even though u are entitled to your own opinions, your personal insults do not become someone who purports to be knowledgeable.

 

[Karem]

exmechman - this will end up going around in circles, I believe it best to agree to disagree.

 

[Karem]

duplicate post - mods - please delete. Thanks.

 

[novatoop]

Someone has news about the development of the missile?