Soryu submarine India’s Interest and why it will be difficult to get them

[Superboy]

IMO Japan should donate such subs to India for free to bring India into Japan's orbit.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

IMO Japan should donate such subs to India for free to bring India into Japan's orbit.

Does such subs has DSI tech mate???

On topic: It will be hard for India to Negotiate Soryu deal with Japan. I am not really optimistic.

 

[Tshering22]

Sir,i think we should go ahead and place an immediate order for 4 more advanced Scorpene class subs which will be directly procured from DCNS,this will save a lot of time and afford which we can then utilize in absorbing the ToT which will come along the Soryu deal.Plus the MoD should increade the P-75I order to atleast 10 subs,half of which will be procured off the shelf from Japan and the rest will be built in India through the transfer of Tech.In this way we will end up adding 14 new subs to our sub-surface fleet within the next 10 years and it will also enable us to retire all those obsolete Kilos and T-209s from our Fleet.What's your take in this matter??

But very few shipyards are free to absorb even the Scorpene tech that we are getting. Soryu as much as we want it is still on paper for our navy. Getting directly from DCNS will put us agrees behind in current AIP TOT.

We have to take the plunge of indicting Indian made Scorpenes while negotiating a better term for the Japanese subs.

Does such subs has DSI tech mate???

On topic: It will be hard for India to Negotiate Soryu deal with Japan. I am not really optimistic.

Well they did offer the US2 to us and no one else.

 

[wiseone2]

We can always negotiate the terms and make it sweeter for them. If Parikkar can guarantee the IPR of Japan to remain safe just as the IPR of the MKIs from IAF is, I think Japan could reconsider.

A batch of 20 US-2 aircraft for Navy and Coast Guard coupled with 6 of these submarines would definitely make Abe reconsider the inhibition to sell it to us.



I didn't understand this part though. Has DRDO developed the AIP technology? If so, then why the hell isn't any shipyard keen to develop an SSK domestically? Arihant is being made by MDL, but what about some other shipyards? Even if it takes 4-5 years more, shouldn't it make more sense to work on, accelerate and develop our own attack submarines?

We could also add Japan as our primary consultative adviser on this.

Russia does not need the MKI against China. Japan might need Sooryu submarines to put a number on the Chinese navy

 

[Tshering22]

Russia does not need the MKI against China. Japan might need Sooryu submarines to put a number on the Chinese navy

Russia's flanker fleet is the backbone of VVS to this date.

What makes you think that the flankers are not going to be the backbone for any conflicts of Russia in the near future? We're talking about some of the most powerful 4.5 generation and 4 generation fighters here. PAKFA won't be inducted in sufficient volumes in the near future.

Also it is unlikely that the Japanese will ever get into a full blown war with China.

Arms exports is the solid way of Japan to offset its stagnant economy and come about as a powerful alternate supplier to European and American firms. Considering Japan's image as a clean and non-confrontational supplier, it is likely that Japan may win many contracts in the future.

South Korea removed all its inhibitions and it has become a crucial exporter of weapons to friendly countries.

Japan might want to shed its inhibitions.

Besides, what better way to open up to the world than assist India?

 

[wiseone2]

Russia's flanker fleet is the backbone of VVS to this date.

What makes you think that the flankers are not going to be the backbone for any conflicts of Russia in the near future? We're talking about some of the most powerful 4.5 generation and 4 generation fighters here. PAKFA won't be inducted in sufficient volumes in the near future.

Also it is unlikely that the Japanese will ever get into a full blown war with China.

Arms exports is the solid way of Japan to offset its stagnant economy and come about as a powerful alternate supplier to European and American firms. Considering Japan's image as a clean and non-confrontational supplier, it is likely that Japan may win many contracts in the future.

South Korea removed all its inhibitions and it has become a crucial exporter of weapons to friendly countries.

Japan might want to shed its inhibitions.

Besides, what better way to open up to the world than assist India?

China is not going to attack Russia in the next 20-30 years. They made the pretense of settling the border dispute.

Japan can be East Asia's version of Israel to Chinese goliath. War with China is unlikely. They must prepare and be ready.

 

[Oldman1]

this is for P 75I project,

Indian Navy To Issue $ 11.10 Billion Tender For Six New Subamrines By Year End

The Indian government has finally cleared Project-75 India (P-75 I) which entails the acquisition of another six submarines for the Indian Navy to plug the gap in the naval fleet. The Indian government has indicated that the tender for the same will be given by year end and the new Request of Information (RFI) is being presently processed.

At present, six Scorpene submarines are being built at the state-owned Mazagon Docks in collaboration with DCNS of France. The six new submarines for the P-75I project is the next phase of the same submarine project and will be worth over $ 11.10 billion. According to the Indian Navy, the new submarines will differ from the earlier lot since the qualitative requirements have been altered. The new submarines will have air-independent propulsion (AIP) to enable sustenance under water for longer duration. In addition, there will be advanced detection range and combat management system besides better sensors for optimum performance. The weapon system would be a mix of torpedoes and missiles.
The six new submarines in P-75 I project will outline various critical parameters including the weight and design of the submarine. The Project 75I submarines are expected to be bigger than the 1800-ton Scorpene class being built for P-75 project. The AIP systems will enable greater underwater endurance and land-attack missiles. Besides, they will also incorporate stealth, land-attack capability and other technological advancements.

Ah I see, just need bigger boats.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Well they did offer the US2 to us and no one else.

"
Lets face it, US2 is not a clasified technological hub like Soryu class submarines. Its like US offering us F35 but even if we pour them with dollars they wont sell F22s to us or even to other close allies like the japs, britishs etc.

That being said, I hope our Babus & MOD can persuade the Japaneese MOD to sell those subs to us.

 

[Tshering22]

"
Lets face it, US2 is not a clasified technological hub like Soryu class submarines. Its like US offering us F35 but even if we pour them with dollars they wont sell F22s to us or even to other close allies like the japs, britishs etc.

That being said, I hope our Babus & MOD can persuade the Japaneese MOD to sell those subs to us.

Well it isn't, I agree with you.

But if Japan has been keen to sell us something from their defence industry, which means that Japan's perception of India has been changing. Remember this is the first time that Japanese government has actually felt like selling something post WW2. It could have chosen UK or Spain or France or some other US+NATO ally.

It means that Japanese government has been shedding its US-painted glasses and is willing to see India separately from a Japanese view.

Anyway it will not be some dumb babu who will do the meeting. Parikkar is a smart, highly qualified man who has enough experience in negotiating deals with different entities.

Japan and India already share very close relations, expected to further increase in the coming years as our industrial collaborations increase and Japanese further shed their inhibition of defence cooperation.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Well it isn't, I agree with you.

But if Japan has been keen to sell us something from their defence industry, which means that Japan's perception of India has been changing. Remember this is the first time that Japanese government has actually felt like selling something post WW2. It could have chosen UK or Spain or France or some other US+NATO ally.

It means that Japanese government has been shedding its US-painted glasses and is willing to see India separately from a Japanese view.

Anyway it will not be some dumb babu who will do the meeting. Parikkar is a smart, highly qualified man who has enough experience in negotiating deals with different entities.

Japan and India already share very close relations, expected to further increase in the coming years as our industrial collaborations increase and Japanese further shed their inhibition of defence cooperation.

Thats why I mentioned MoD which certainly includes our honorable defence minister dont you think???

Lets hope for the best. Japan may consider India a more natural ally in its counter to chineese aggresion. They may, just may be inclined to share their most classified technology with us. Fingers crossed.