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Sorry IMF Pakistan not coming for money.

There so many homes destroyed in the forest fire of California yet USA has its IR sats pointed on Asia why? USA could have saved many lives and property back home using those military sats. Don't teach me my friend what is good for us. China is bringing in foreign direct investment and you want us to say no. Lol. Every day trump gives a speech about bringing this much investment into USA and you want to suggest opposition for Pakistan lol. Come on cut the crap my friend. There is a level of propaganda above that it becomes a visible plot.
Bro,

US have coped with significant environmental disasters before and it will get through this one as well; they have adequate resources and arrangements in place for such eventualities. FYI: http://wildfiretoday.com/2018/07/27/nifc-moves-up-to-preparedness-level-5-nationally/

We should worry about our country because it is woefully unprepared for environmental challenges. A few days of high-intensity rain turned Lahore into Venice. If this is the situation in Lahore, other cities are more vulnerable. We cannot take our environmental stability for granted for long.

Anyways:

China hamarey sar pey ehsaan nahin karr raha; we have handed over Gwadar to China on a silver plate, with zero caveats. China desired access to warm waters of Indian Ocean in order to shorten trade routes for its Eastern provinces, and we obliged them in this matter. We are returning the favor big time.

There is no propaganda in my response; pure unadulterated facts. We should strive for transparency and national consensus in the matters of development. METRO and Neelum-Jhelum like stories should not be repeated; kickbacks kee basis parr projects award nahin karney chaiyeen, to any country.

Joh bhee investment ho, merit kee buniyaad parr hon. And we should make conditions conducive for investments from all over the world.

China opened its doors to entire world for investment, and look where it stand today. Chinese are very shrewd and smart. They do what is best for their country instead of turning it into a colony of another state. Learn from them.
 
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Actually taking loan from IMF is good for country/governance. They hav stringent rules for loans . This will force government to cut down subsidies and wasteful expenditure and improve the performance of public sector companies.
True IMF policies are good for reduction of expenses so payback is possible but in case of Pakistan they are also tied with devaluation of currency which drives up the Rupee value of the previous loans. And second factor is IMF dictates just like other loan agencies for own companies/ consultants for using those loans when taken for projects.

PTI gov has said they will make drastic cut backs so they plan on doing the things IMF will suggest, if non IMF route can be found to cope with the scenario it will be more favorable for Pakistan.
 
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China is going to loan money to Pakistan which it probably can't pay back and is going to be hyper-dependent on China,selling its assets and shares of many public groups and institutions,just like what's happening with many African countries.

With the "help of China",many African countries saw their debts skyrocketing with little signs of development,the only difference is now China controlling their assets and plundering their ressources with the help of corrupt African leaders.

Don't fall for the amical speeches of the Chinese,they only seek their interests first,like any other country I would say.
I shall be honest with everybody in this forum. China have helped Pakistan in ways other countries could not (e.g. Saudi Arabia) and were not willing to (e.g. USA).

China have played a vital role in improving our military capability (and national security) over the course of years. China helped us in building the bomb*; provided us ballistic missiles (e.g. M-11)**; continue to help us in building advanced forms of ballistic missiles**; is a partner in our Jet Fighter program (i.e. JF-17 Thunder)***; and is willing to sell various types of military equipment to Pakistan including submarines and main battle tanks.

*http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/china-pakistan-nuclear-deal-realpolitique-fait-accompli-1/
**https://fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/missile/hatf-3.htm
***https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/stuck-in-sichuan-pakistani-jf17-program-grounded-02984/

Aforementioned Chinese favors to Pakistan are significant by any measure, and cannot be overlooked and/or forgotten. Pakistani society is in LOVE with Pakistani military due to its professionalism, services and sacrifices for the country over the course of years, and any country which play a role in strengthening Pakistani military capability, is viewed positively accordingly.

Pakistani values are such that we put our true friends on the pedestal - understandable.

China is also involved in various development projects of Pakistan, most notably CPEC. China have gone out of its way to win hearts and minds in Pakistan, and the feeling is being reciprocated.

Any Pakistani would acknowledge and appreciate Chinese support to Pakistan in all fronts (including myself).

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My concern is in regards to TRANSPARENCY in dealings with China. Pakistani citizens have every right to be made aware of the terms & conditions (and pros and cons) of economic dealings between the two countries because these dealings have implications for Pakistani citizens at large; Pakistani citizens should have a say in these dealings accordingly. Lack of transparency in such dealings will sow FEAR, and would have implications for people-to-people contacts between Pakistan and China.

Unfortunately, Pakistani political parties such as PPPP and PML(N) have capitalized on PAK-China relations for personal gains and profiteering and not for the greater good of Pakistani society. Shady business practices and dealings should be discouraged for the greater good of Pakistani society; development projects in Pakistan should not be awarded to Chinese firms on the basis of kickbacks and profiteering like in the case of Neelum-Jhelum Hydro but on the basis of MERIT.

Furthermore, I am concerned about the amounts of loans being taken from China. Why are we taking so much loan from China? Why not develop the country in a sensible way?

China might be sincere in its dealings with Pakistan but Pakistani politicians are not sincere with their country on average. These politicians will sell entire Pakistan to the highest bidder for personal gains [if they have to]. This is the ultimate concern.

I envision a strong and independent Pakistan in which entire world is willing to invest and projects are awarded to investors on the basis of MERIT. This is all, and I hope that PTI will strive for this end as well.

---

PAK-US relationship is another topic for discussion, but I believe that both countries have mismanaged these relations to the detriment of both so far. PAK-US relationship needs reboot, in a positive way.
 
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Great dollar pumping down like a bullet USD = 123 PKR
 
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Go look up what a credit line is

You need to cry a bit harder. Pakistan is not going to imf that is for sure.

Dollar price went down and stocks are going up faster than any market
FDI has started already.
 
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Actually taking loan from IMF is good for country/governance. They hav stringent rules for loans . This will force government to cut down subsidies and wasteful expenditure and improve the performance of public sector companies.

A lot of these conditions are set by "experts" with a high level of understanding of the "science" (if we can call it that) of economics but limited understanding of basic human nature. Their recommendations have led to turmoil in many countries (sudden changes / increases in tax laws etc.)

Also, there seems to be pattern of feeding dependence --- like any lender, it needs repeat customers!
 
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You need to cry a bit harder. Pakistan is not going to imf that is for sure.

Dollar price went down and stocks are going up faster than any market
FDI has started already.
Dude, I honestly don’t give a flying crap about what Pakistan does- as long as India is not affected - but had to respond to your absurd post.
Look up what a credit line is before making these posts.
Best of luck with your economy.
 
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Pak needs to bring back looted wealth, get money out of Nawaz and Zardari.
Start charging the Americans for using supply routes, get more people into the
tax net.
 
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I hope we will not need to go to IMF as our friendly countries can bail us out.
 
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You are correct but I am not getting ahead here I have reasons for this. Do you remember when Pakistani stock exchange was doing very well in whole Asia?
Then suddenly it started to fell like a rock and then dollar started disappearing from the market. Now in this whole time the money that was liquidated from stocks never left the country. There was no out flow of this big cash. That money went into dollar purchase this making dollar appreciate in Pakistan. Now that money is moving back to stock market and dollar will reduce in value due to sell off. Foreign exchange will rise before 31st.

Your stock market is undeveloped, it can't be used to gauge economic and financial conditions like the NYSE can. @Nilgiri explain it to them.
 
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Your stock market is undeveloped, it can't be used to gauge economic and financial conditions like the NYSE can. @Nilgiri explain it to them.

@LeGenD did a good job explaining the main issue at stake here. Nothing to add really.

Pakistan market cap (esp bond market) is also quite small (even with overall good performance and recovery from the 2008 crash which were helped by the low base effect) and over-leveraged already (esp factoring in credit rating) compared to what it needs to help in any significant way with this mounting balance of payments issue.

Anyways let us wait and watch. That will bring everything to the light ultimately.

It's been 3 days since election, don't get ahead of yourself, nothing can be attributed to IK's government yet. Stock index movement reflects more than just their opinions/confidence on who is the PM. A weaker pkr, and a government being formed following an election are both going to boost the stock market.

As for the IMF, it might well happen still, there's a huge shortfall that our current and projected dollar reserves can't make up for. And I agree PMLN's policy of burning forex to keep the rupee artificially strong was shortsighted and wasteful.

Good analysis my friend.

China is bringing in foreign direct investment and you want us to say no. Lol.

Loans are not foreign direct investment. The base collateral is fully located inside Pakistan, not China.
 
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Your stock market is undeveloped, it can't be used to gauge economic and financial conditions like the NYSE can. @Nilgiri explain it to them.



Our stock market and economy where also too underdeveloped back in the 1990s to allow Pakistan to become a nuclear weapons state, not to mention all the nations in the world bar China trying to stop us achieving this endevour. But it STILL happened. Just as then so is now. In fact that achievement was FAR more difficult than Pakistan trying to become a developed nation. indianisms and indian logic DO NOT apply to Pakistan or Pakistanis. Never forget that fact.
 
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Our stock market and economy where also too underdeveloped back in the 1990s to allow Pakistan to become a nuclear weapons state, not to mention all the nations in the world bar China trying to stop us achieving this endevour. But it STILL happened. Just as then so is now. In fact that achievement was FAR more difficult than Pakistan trying to become a developed nation. indianisms and indian logic DO NOT apply to Pakistan or Pakistanis. Never forget that fact.

You forgot race and culture in your diatribe
 
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