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Son Of Arjun Frightens Indians

If Arjun is to be compared with T90 it must be sent to a third country for evaluation with similar weather conditions. Or a cross evaluation by Indians and Russians for the results to be credit worthy.

No need for that as the tests were conducted by IA and everyone knows whom they favored. Another point to note is that T-90Bhishma is not as advanced as its Russian counterpart.
 
That was not a top secret Field test..Instead it is most published Field test in the history of pakistan...After watching this field test only your then president Zia-ul-haq was returning and got killed in an air accident...
Its surprising you dont know about this...:undecided:

Yeah I just read about it on someones blog, but like I said, I had no information regarding this test and I am surprised myself. It was actually a very well lit event.
 
No need for that as the tests were conducted by IA and everyone knows whom they favored. Another point to note is that T-90Bhishma is not as advanced as its Russian counterpart.

They are both great tanks which are very capable but they are based on different philosophies. The Arjun, structurally resembles the Leopard 2A4 which itself has evolved out of the NATO armoured warfare philosophy.
 
You expalined it. Could you also tell me what were the specs the Army gave to DRDO? Because the weight seems to be the only disadvantage that has the army not opting for more. I am curious as to why the army asked for a 60 ton tank when they knew their existing infrastructure could not support its quick deployment. Or why the DRDO made a 60 ton tank when the army clearly stated otherwise. I totally understand the need to research the new tank, thats always a good step.
Little correction Sir.......Arjun had total order of 248 tanks as of now.

The controversy regarding Arjun has been like this-

Till 2007 Army labelled Arjun as substandard tanks and DRDO claims foul play in trials by Army. GOI arranged for a third party evaluation (that is mentioned in GOI press release, I can dig it up for you, if you need. I have read the press realese) most probably an Israel based tank manufacturer (but it is not mentioned in GOI press released, but rumour was such) who gave opinion in favour of Arjun. In the next trial there was a turn in Army's opinion about Arjun and they said very much impressed by Arjun's performance. However it is only after recent trial (rumour is that Arjun beat T90 severely in all aspects) Army ordered 124 more tanks making the total order number 248.
 
That is what I have been asking. Thanks. 248 is a fairly large number. Something for both sides to be happy about and for DRDO to continue their works on the MBT.
 
No need for that as the tests were conducted by IA and everyone knows whom they favored. Another point to note is that T-90Bhishma is not as advanced as its Russian counterpart.
Infact there has been a third party evaluation of Arjun. Read this press release of GOI-

PIB Press Release

History of sorts was made today as the Indian Army proudly equipped itself with the first Armoured Regiment of indigenously built Main Battle Tank, Arjun. The development marks the fruition of 35 years of research in self-reliance by dedicated Indian scientists against all odds.

16 tanks (Cumulative 45 Arjun tanks) were handed over to Lt.Gen.D.Bhardwaj, DGMF, towards formation of the 1st Arjun regiment by Shri S.Chandrasekar, Addl. DGOF (AV) and flagged-off by Dr.A.Sivathanu PIllai, Chief Controller, Research & Development & Distinguished Scientist, DRDO at a function in Avadi today. MBT Arjun is the state-of-art main battle tank designed and developed by Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment(CVRDE), Avadi along with other DRDO and industrial partners. MBT Arjun is provided with excellent mobility, superior fire power and protection and the features are quite comparable to contemporary world tanks. The Kanchan Armour, Hydro-pneumatic suspension, Armament system, Integrated Fire Detection & Suppression System, system engineering and system integration of complex weapon platforms are some of the significant indigenous technologies of Arjun, developed by DRDO labs. Initially 12 prototypes were developed during 1983 to 1990 and they were subjected to field trials of more than 20,000 kms and 1100 rounds. Based on user feedback 15 pre-production vehicles were developed during 1990 to 1995 and they were subjected to field trials of more than 70,000 kms and 8000 rounds. After the satisfactory trials, army placed an indent initially for 15 limited series production in Nov 1997 and cumulatively 124 in Mar 2000. The development of Arjun was carried out in a number of stages and evaluation through extensive field trials. After satisfactory performance, Army placed an indent for the full compliment of 124 nos. of MBT Arjun in Mar 2000.

As there was a long gap from the R&D phase to production phase from 1993 to 2000, problems related to re-establishing production lines and vendor sources and resolving overseas issues like technology denial in view of Pokhran testing, change over and mergers of OEMS for the critical items, delayed initial commencement of production. In order to meet the production requirement, additional infrastructure facilities and machine tools were established at HVF, Avadi and Ordnance Factory, Medak. However, the first pilot batch of production tanks was handed over to Army on 7th August 2004 in the presence of the then Defence Minister Shri. Pranab Mukherjee. During subsequent production, Army insisted upon the demonstration of medium fording capabilities of MBT Arjun. Both CVRDE and HVF, continuously worked on war footing, to meet the stringent requirement of medium fording to a height of 2.1m in water with preparation time of 30 minutes as retro-fitment solution and demonstrated successfully to Defence Minister Shri A.K.Antony and other dignitaries on 2nd July 2007. Subsequently, the production tanks were incorporated with all medium fording modifications and the next batch of nine tanks were handed over by Sep 2007.

Meanwhile, Army carried out the Accelerated Usage Cum Reliability Trials (AUCRT) in 5 phases on two tanks from Nov 2007 to Aug 2008 covering more than 8000 km and 800 rounds of firing in each tank. AUCRT is required for assessing the spares requirement for the entire life of the tank besides evaluation of reliability of tank. Each phase consists of 1000kms run and 100EFC (Approx. 160 rounds of APFSDS and HESH – Primary and secondary rounds) over a temperature range of -5 to 500C. One of the main issues during AUCRT trials was the failure of the bearings of Transmission of M/s RENK, Germany, due to rise in lub oil temperature. However, this was immediately solved by modifying the software during AUCRT itself and the efficacy of the software was proved for more than 4000kms. However a comprehensive solution of modifying the bearing assembly by providing a special coating was carried out to take care of the temperature problem and the retrofitment of bearing assembly being carried out in all the tanks.

The outcome of AUCRT trials raised the confidence levels of the users over the reliability and endurance of MBT Arjun and they confirmed that the overall performance of the MBT Arjun during the stringent AUCRT trials was satisfactory and cleared the production tanks with minor modifications suggested during AUCRT, for induction. Both CVRDE and HVF along with DGQA agencies worked out methodologies to introduce all AUCRT modifications within shortest time frame and the next batch of 17 tanks were handed over to Army by 3rd March 2009.

As suggested by Army after AUCRT trials, Arjun tanks were subjected to rigorous trials and assessment by a third party audit (an internationally reputed tank manufacturer). After the extensive evaluation, the reputed tank manufacturer confirmed that the MBT Arjun is an excellent tank with very good mobility and fire power characteristics suitable for Indian desert. They also added inputs such as quality auditing, production procedures and refined calibration procedures for further enhancing the performance of MBT Arjun. DRDO, will be incorporating all these inputs in the next regiment of 62 tanks for handing over to Army before Mar 2010 as desired by the Army.

The regiment of 45 tanks will be subjected to a conversion training and field practice for a period of 3 months. Thereafter, the Army is planning to conduct a comparative trial with T 90 tanks in Oct/Nov 2009 to assess the operational deployment role of the tanks. The present batch of 124 tanks will be delivered by Mar 2010.
 
The Indian army is operating 124 Arjun tanks now?
 
The Indian army is operating 124 Arjun tanks now?
Yes ...they r supposed to be delivered by March this year.........the press release is old and it says about 45 tanks by that time...MBT Arjun thread can give better info abou current inventory......
 
it said 124 tanks by March 2010 not 2011. I will go check that thread in a little bit.
 
Little correction Sir.......Arjun had total order of 248 tanks as of now.

The controversy regarding Arjun has been like this-

Till 2007 Army labelled Arjun as substandard tanks and DRDO claims foul play in trials by Army. GOI arranged for a third party evaluation (that is mentioned in GOI press release, I can dig it up for you, if you need. I have read the press realese) most probably an Israel based tank manufacturer (but it is not mentioned in GOI press released, but rumour was such) who gave opinion in favour of Arjun. In the next trial there was a turn in Army's opinion about Arjun and they said very much impressed by Arjun's performance. However it is only after recent trial (rumour is that Arjun beat T90 severely in all aspects) Army ordered 124 more tanks making the total order number 248.

No one labeled the Arjun as a substandard tank. The Army for once refused to accept the Arjun till all the major problems with it were resolved. Why don't people get it into their heads that in any armed conflict with Pakistan, it is the Army which will do the fighting and not the DRDO blokes or their fan boys. The front line tanks of the PA are excellent fighting machines. The problems regarding the Arjun, and there were many, had to be sorted out before they could be inducted. Arjun is the first Indian designed tank, a wealth of knowledge and experience has been gained by us during the project, all of it will be put to use in the FMBT project. For a first attempt, the Arjun is an excellent and a praiseworthy product, even though it took long in coming. There will be 240 Arjuns in service in the IA, which is OK for a new tank.
 
As suggested by Army after AUCRT trials, Arjun tanks were subjected to rigorous trials and assessment by a third party audit (an internationally reputed tank manufacturer). After the extensive evaluation, the reputed tank manufacturer confirmed that the MBT Arjun is an excellent tank with very good mobility and fire power characteristics suitable for Indian desert. They also added inputs such as quality auditing, production procedures and refined calibration procedures for further enhancing the performance of MBT Arjun. DRDO, will be incorporating all these inputs in the next regiment of 62 tanks for handing over to Army before Mar 2010 as desired by the Army.

Yes, I have read about that. He was talking about conducting the T-90 vs Arjun trials by a 3rd party. I think the 3rd party mentioned in the report was from Israel. I remember reading a well written article on that. The Israelis were very much impressed with Arjun's performance.
 
Stupid question: I always wondered, when we have such good collaborations with the Israelis, why cant India buy the Merkava IV? Awesomestest tank IMHO! Arjun is made of deserts and so is the Merkava. Besides the tech that goes in a Merkava would be out of this world!
 
Stupid question: I always wondered, when we have such good collaborations with the Israelis, why cant India buy the Merkava IV? Awesomestest tank IMHO! Arjun is made of deserts and so is the Merkava. Besides the tech that goes in a Merkava would be out of this world!


Merkava's boon is also its curse. It is extremely potent tank but faces the same problem that Arjun does .i.e it is very heavy , heavier than Arjun. So even if India does buy a 65 ton Merkava tank it has to be in limited numbers and can only be used in desert plain warfare (ala Arjun).The weight, the size severly restricts makes airlift of Arjun and Merkava impossible (till C17 is inducted). It is perfect for Israeli conditions but not for Indian. That being said , the tech that goes inside makes it worthwhile to be replicated on Arjun.
 
India has more front lines/km than the isrealis. It is all about deployment time. Heavier the tank, harder it is to move it to the next fight.
 
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