Something about kashmir war

[Jackdaws]

The year 1948 and Nehru were India's mis-fortunes. I wished Sardar Patel would have lived longer and Nehru died sooner.

This stupid Nehru went to UN even though we had upper hand in 1948 and messed with Chinese with forward posts.

Anyways Kashmir is an Integral part of India and Pakistanis can cry for plebiscite for all its existence!

This is an over-simplification of history. I agree Nehru was daft with his forward policy and his insistence of taking up the matter with the UN (Kashmir) was downright stupid. He was not a pragmatist; he was an idealist. Patel was pragmatic. Patel may have decided to save money and not conducted election after election or strengthened the hands of the opposition like Nehru did. India's democratic credentials that we are so proud of today are mainly because of Nehru and his naive idealism. The man did not sacrifice the long term aims of India to remain independent and robust for short term gains which would have been pragmatic and were adopted by pretty much all de-colonized Asian and African nations. Patel might have even joined CENTO or SEATO. Remember, in the midst of a near famine Nehru rejected American aid - saying he did not want aid with political strings attached. Nehru is now castigated because of his progeny - shame - because he was indeed one of our tallest leaders.

 

[nForce]

No its not declared as non-Muslim, dont confuse urself

There is no room for confusion there.

while ur next quote tells something different

These British Army officers would have been court marshalled on their refusal to accept orders from civilian govt. heck

I hope you understand the difference between a British and a Pakistani.

A British officer, serving in either Indian or Pakistani forces ultimately serves the British crown. So, British officers fighting against each other means Britain having a war with itself. That is tantamount to using officers of the British army as mercenaries in ill-conceived plans made by some low rank officer, which just blew out of proportion.
So, the British General decided to stay out of it. He was simply not a hired gun.

 

[Rocky25]

This is an over-simplification of history. I agree Nehru was daft with his forward policy and his insistence of taking up the matter with the UN (Kashmir) was downright stupid. He was not a pragmatist; he was an idealist. Patel was pragmatic. Patel may have decided to save money and not conducted election after election or strengthened the hands of the opposition like Nehru did. India's democratic credentials that we are so proud of today are mainly because of Nehru and his naive idealism. The man did not sacrifice the long term aims of India to remain independent and robust for short term gains which would have been pragmatic and were adopted by pretty much all de-colonized Asian and African nations. Patel might have even joined CENTO or SEATO. Remember, in the midst of a near famine Nehru rejected American aid - saying he did not want aid with political strings attached. Nehru is now castigated because of his progeny - shame - because he was indeed one of our tallest leaders.

Can you kindly tell me what did the Non-Aligned movement gave India? Pakistan was both in CENTO or SEATO, Yet it did not give them anything great at all!

He should have either aligned with Americans or Soviets.

Nehru was far far better than the Pakistani politicians at that time, He created IIT's and brought in some Industrialization! The public sector companies are his offering. But think about the humiliation of 1962 war, It was not needed, We made a foe out of a friend!

What if he had crushed the infiltrators and made whole Kashmir as an integral state without going to UN?

I would rather happy to live under intelligent Dictator rather than a ignorant Prime Minister!

 

[Shamain]

Every Pashtun is an Afghan but every Afghan is not a Pashtun !

But this is a bit different thing. You are a pakistani first . Secondly,indians do it for their propaganda and lies , those tribals werent afghan tribes but pakistani pushtoons instead. History shud never be distorted.
And btw i have seen pakistani pushtoons not really associating themselves with afghanis and instead holding their own identity as that of pakistanis.

Non-state actors refer to those people who cannot be traced back to any government. They don't owe any allegiance to any country and nor do they take orders - this is what is officially claimed. In reality they are expendables who can be disowned by their home government when things go wrong. Such people are usually undercover agents (mind you not all intelligence officials are undercover agents) and special forces operatives.

Yes this is almost what ihave known abt them .

 

[asad71]

Can you kindly tell me what did the Non-Aligned movement gave India? Pakistan was both in CENTO or SEATO, Yet it did not give them anything great at all!

He should have either aligned with Americans or Soviets.

Nehru was far far better than the Pakistani politicians at that time, He created IIT's and brought in some Industrialization! The public sector companies are his offering. But think about the humiliation of 1962 war, It was not needed, We made a foe out of a friend!

What if he had crushed the infiltrators and made whole Kashmir as an integral state without going to UN?

I would rather happy to live under intelligent Dictator rather than a ignorant Prime Minister!

Pakistan had benefited immensely through Baghdad Pact/CENTO/RCD, SEATO and USMAG. Its economy was the best in Asia after Japan. PNS Ghazi was the only submarine in the region. PAF had the best aircraft and the pilots received intense training benefiting from these treaties. M-48 was the best tank in SA. Pakistan felt safe from communist infiltration and Indian hegemony.

 

[Zhukov]

Pakistanis invading a princely state which has signed instrument of accession with India..Thus official beginning of using non-state actors to wage war against neighbors.

India attacked Hyderabad and Junagarh and anexed the pricely states against the will of their governments.
In Kashmir the officials of kashmiri administration rebelled agaisnt their own government. Read more please before commenting

 

[Bornubus]

Death of Ranjit Singh, Hari Singh Nalwa and Rajput warlord Zorawar Singh kalhuria coincided with British Gaining power in the subcontinent ... Was the worst thing happened to Kashmir otherwise Kashmir would have been a free country/monarchy called Dogristhan.

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

Allow demographic changes in Kashmir and then do plebiscite

 

[Burhan Wani]

Can you point them out ? Also, how do they affect the events ?

Let me clear
First Kashmir war(1947-1949) was started by ex british army officers and jawans belongs to independent state Poonch. After rebellion and liberation of poonch, on request of sardar Ibrahim khan Quaid e azam allowed Masood and wazir tribe belongs to Tribal ares to fight for Srinagar.
For your information i will point out major information.
1. Rebellion by Poonch was indigenous movement and fought by Azad Kashmir Regular Forces. ( Now on Azad Kashmir Regiment)
2. Masood and wazir tribes were deployed on different areas much closer to Pakistan Army.
3. Ex british army officers are jawans involved in First Kashmir war 1947 were ww1 and ww2 veterans. They recruited youngsters and trained them for rebellion known as poonch rebellion.

Death of Ranjit Singh, Hari Singh Nalwa and Rajput warlord Zorawar Singh kalhuria coincided with British Gaining power in the subcontinent ... Was the worst thing happened to Kashmir otherwise Kashmir would have been a free country/monarchy called Dogristhan.

So what happaned to doghristan, can you pointout single dogra blood lineage in Kashmir?

 

[nForce]

Let me clear
First Kashmir war(1947-1949) was started by ex british army officers and jawans belongs to independent state Poonch. After rebellion and liberation of poonch, on request of sardar Ibrahim khan Quaid e azam allowed Masood and wazir tribe belongs to Tribal ares to fight for Srinagar.
For your information i will point out major information.
1. Rebellion by Poonch was indigenous movement and fought by Azad Kashmir Regular Forces. ( Now on Azad Kashmir Regiment)
2. Masood and wazir tribes were deployed on different areas much closer to Pakistan Army.
3. Ex british army officers are jawans involved in First Kashmir war 1947 were ww1 and ww2 veterans. They recruited youngsters and trained them for rebellion known as poonch rebellion.

So what happaned to doghristan, can you pointout single dogra blood lineage in Kashmir?

It is my personal belief that it was highly unlikely that Jinnah was totally unaware of what was going on, it's a matter of great debate nonetheless.
I tend to think his ill health pushed him to take decisions hastily. A catastrophic mistake on Pakistan's part. What is even more surprising and mildly amusing is similar events were repeated twice more, in 1965 and again in 1999.
Whether Jinnah knew about it or not, it does not give a single bit of legitimacy to the invasion, because,it was an act of aggression towards an independent state. If the two-month old Pakistani govt. and it's army would have sit tight then it was highly probable that Kashmir would have acceded to Pakistan eventually. What really happened basically gifted India the state of Kashmir, which was bigger than the state of Hyderabad in it's totality.

 

[Burhan Wani]

It is my personal belief that it was highly unlikely that Jinnah was totally unaware of what was going on, it's a matter of great debate nonetheless.
I tend to think his ill health pushed him to take decisions hastily. A catastrophic mistake on Pakistan's part. What is even more surprising and mildly amusing is similar events were repeated twice more, in 1965 and again in 1999.
Whether Jinnah knew about it or not, it does not give a single bit of legitimacy to the invasion, because,it was an act of aggression towards an independent state. If the two-month old Pakistani govt. and it's army would have sit tight then it was highly probable that Kashmir would have acceded to Pakistan eventually. What really happened basically gifted India the state of Kashmir, which was bigger than the state of Hyderabad in it's totality.

Let us talk about current situation.More than 17 different organisations under united jihad council are fighting against indian occupation of Kashmir. In your occupied territory people raise Pakistani flag and wants unification with Pakistan.
It was not an independent state as you say, it was purchased by dogra rulers and dogra rulers faced rebellion by Poonchins dozen times. At last 80,000 poonchins recruited in British army for world war, and in year 1947 these veterans started gurilla strikes against dogra rule and liberated many areas of independent state named as Poonch.
These independent areas were later became Azad Jammu and Kashmir and the other part where Indian troopers came to help dogra army raped and killed million muslims of Kashmir to formed their own Government.
The reason behind Muslim killings was to crush freedom movement but in year 1989 these innocent people started armed struggle against India Rule and still they are fighting vigilantly under the command of Syed Salahuddin Hizbul Mujahidden supremo and chief of United jihad Council. And they are working well.

 

[nForce]

Let us talk about current situation.More than 17 different organisations under united jihad council are fighting against indian occupation of Kashmir. In your occupied territory people raise Pakistani flag and wants unification with Pakistan.
It was not an independent state as you say, it was purchased by dogra rulers and dogra rulers faced rebellion by Poonchins dozen times. At last 80,000 poonchins recruited in British army for world war, and in year 1947 these veterans started gurilla strikes against dogra rule and liberated many areas of independent state named as Poonch.
These independent areas were later became Azad Jammu and Kashmir and the other part where Indian troopers came to help dogra army raped and killed million muslims of Kashmir to formed their own Government.
The reason behind Muslim killings was to crush freedom movement but in year 1989 these innocent people started armed struggle against India Rule and still they are fighting vigilantly under the command of Syed Salahuddin Hizbul Mujahidden supremo and chief of United jihad Council. And they are working well.

The Kashmiri movement to join Pakistan died long time ago. It was orphaned to begin with and the prevalent idea among Pakistani army that upon being attacked, the Kashmiris would join them against India has been proved wrong thrice in a row. The indigenous militancy also died a decade back. Most of the terrorists that got killed in last ten years are youth from Pakistani Punjab belonging to lower economic strata. Even that has reduced to almost none.

Whatever political support is present for freedom struggle is led by an 80 year old man, whom govt. of India has preserved very carefully, so that he may not die any sort of unnatural death. Interestingly, his doctor is a Kashmiri pandit whose family was evicted due to communal violence in the early 90s. There is no other single prominent leader from the youth indicating that political support is dying as well.
And I would not worry about raising Pakistani flags. That's merely a publicity stunt. The protesters have learnt that it draws media attention quickly. Otherwise, it's entirely laughable that someone would raise a Pakistani flag, while the rally is for demanding an independent Kashmir.

 

[Jackdaws]

Can you kindly tell me what did the Non-Aligned movement gave India? Pakistan was both in CENTO or SEATO, Yet it did not give them anything great at all!

He should have either aligned with Americans or Soviets.

Nehru was far far better than the Pakistani politicians at that time, He created IIT's and brought in some Industrialization! The public sector companies are his offering. But think about the humiliation of 1962 war, It was not needed, We made a foe out of a friend!

What if he had crushed the infiltrators and made whole Kashmir as an integral state without going to UN?

I would rather happy to live under intelligent Dictator rather than a ignorant Prime Minister!

NAM gave India nothing. I don't think allying with the Americans or the Soviets would have been wise - we charted an independent foreign policy - out of all major nations with the exception of France, India was the only one with a completely independent foreign policy. The French too were indebted to the Americans and Brits following WW-2 - not that they cared too much.

An intelligent dictator can become a prisoner of his own legend. Remember - Mugabe was once hailed as a hero. Let's just agree to disagree. Nehru was not a complete failure - his aura diminished after '62. But let's not only remember him for that.

 

[ghoul]

It's Indian propagandists who blame the entire Kashmir conflict on tribals from FATA, and don't mention the reality that it was locals who started the uprising. The uprising actually started in Rajouri and Poonch by Sudhans and muslim rajputs. The muslim rajputs of Kotli and Rajauri were persuaded to start an armed conflict by ex-Indian army men like Raja Sakhi Daler and Raja Habib-ur-Rahman Khan. Tribals fought in Muzaffarabad region mostly, which is the north. It was Jinnah, who persuaded tribals to assist the local rebels.

The fighters in Bhimber, Mirpur and Kotli, who were mostly the local muslim rajputs fought without any tribal help, but Indians still blame "tribals" for that. They are said to have robbed and pillaged hindu villages, and killed Dogra soldiers.

 

[oFFbEAT]

.............. Nehru was not a complete failure - his aura diminished after '62. But let's not only remember him for that.

Nehru's greed led to the partition of India.....he'll always be remembered for that.