Soldiers don't hate soldiers.....

[MastanKhan]

We have SUCH bad times going on....it's really bad, laddy.

Joe,

How are you doing?

What is started to happen in India---is not a good situation---.

 

[third eye]

What is started to happen in India---is not a good situation---.

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

Just one angle :

Afzal Guru whom the JNU students were eulogizing ( for whatever reasons) was hanged by the Congress led UPA Govt.

Rahul Gandhi comes out in support of the students fully aware that they were actually protesting his party's decision !

The JNU students readily accept Rahul baba's support fully aware that he is a representative of a Govt the Hung Afzal !

The villain of the piece is being made out to be BJP !!!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe,

How are you doing?

What is started to happen in India---is not a good situation---.

WE are going back into the times that YOU came out of. Talk of irony.

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

Just one angle :

Afzal Guru whom the JNU students were eulogizing ( for whatever reasons) was hanged by the Congress led UPA Govt.

Rahul Gandhi comes out in support of the students fully aware that they were actually protesting his party's decision !

The JNU students readily accept Rahul baba's support fully aware that he is a representative of a Govt the Hung Afzal !

The villain of the piece is being made out to be BJP !!!

The villain of the piece is unmistakably and unequivocally the BJP.

 

[Musafir117]

This is from someone else's blog, somewhere else. It was so evocative, and rang so true, that I felt compelled to break my silence and bring this to your collective notice. Especially to the notice of those who have served.

I think it was in 2000 or maybe 2001 in Gurez Valley in North Eastern Kashmir. I was doing some research on the LoC. The Brigade HQ at Davar hosted me and I messed in with the Raj Rif unit that manned several posts on the front. In those days shelling was a regular affair and the whole area was pretty tense. It was hard being a soldier. Pakistani snipers often got the unlucky guy who stepped out of his bunker for a pee and in winter corpses had to be choppered out whenever a chopper could land. Until then the men lived with the corpse of the man who had recently been friend and compatriot.

One day I decided to walk over to a border village to interview civilians. The colonel insisted on sending a JCO with an AK47 as my guide and protector despite my protests. At first I resented his presence. It compromised my neutrality. But then as we began chatting, desultorily at first, I found myself drawn to a most extraordinary man. We sat down on some rocks in the bright sunshine, the blue Kishanganga flowing swiftly past us.

He was very proud of serving in the Rajputana Rifles. Yes, he missed home. Sometimes it was hard on the LoC, but it was better, more honest soldiering than being in the Valley. Why? There it's confusing. You sometimes end up killing people who are supposed to be Indian. And here, the Pakistanis, you said you lost some of your men...you must hate them? Hate? No, I don't hate them. They are sons of poor farmers like me. They are doing their duty, like me. No. I don't hate them.

Welcome back Sir

 

[Joe Shearer]

Welcome back Sir

Thanks, but this is a one-off, to bring that story to the forum. I felt it deserved it.

 

[Pakistani E]

Yeah most professional soldiers with a brain don't hate other professional soldiers. They understand that was it not for the mere coincidence of fate, they would be on the other side of the border defending that country. I have alot of former and serving members of the armed forces. None of them hate Indian soldiers for the sake of it, actually my father served in PAF, yet is still moderately pro Indian/peace..

 

[jhungary]

Who can kill a person without hate? No, you can't.

In war, you tend to dehumanize your opponent, you don't think of them as a human, they have no mother, no father, no brothers nor sister. They don't exist, they are (and please forgive my language) gooks, chinks, hajji, zip, nip, kraut, raghead and so on.

Soldier replace the "human nature" of their enemies and put them into a class of sub-human, a substance. Yet on the other hand, we don't actually "kill" them. We "finish" them, we "silence" them, we "take" them out. Not once would you give an order to actually "kill" your enemy, yet while nobody use the word kill, killing or kills, that does not mean no one dies in war. Hence, a relevant question exist, while we, as soldier, dehumanize our enemies, does that mean they are less human?

People need to know, in war, the circumstance is quite different then we all sit down and have a beer in a pub. In war, you don't just need "hate" to pull your trigger, to take one life, but what you need is a conviction. Hate will only get you that far when you will stare down your enemies with your muzzle pointing at him, what make your pull your trigger is the conviction of yours.

You believe getting rid of this man will make the world a better place, that's a conviction, you believe getting rid of this man will keep your buddy safe, that's a conviction, you believe what the person above you tell you to do is 100% correct and just, that's a conviction.

And conviction cannot simply bring out by simple hatred too. It's very easy to say it out loud to someone "I hate you" but it is not exactly the same difficulty to fire a bullet into someone's torso or head and kills him. Something have to bridge the difference. In come the dehumanization of enemy and the conviction.

It is a lot easier to shoot someone you don't think is a human, what are they to you? They are gooks, hajji or zips. They are not human, they are just something you need to kill in order to finish your job, to do what you were ask to do over there. It's the program you have to write if you are a computer programmer, it's the building you have to build if you are a builder, it's the fish that you have to kill if you are a sushi chef. It's nothing, because you don't see them as human.

Then come the conviction. The moment you pull the trigger, you have no remorse, you have no emotion, you have no thoughts that run thru your brain. That moment is empty, you can kill 10, 100 or 1000 people and not knowing, actually, rather than no knowing, I should use the word not recognize.

Let me ask you this, if you are doing something you are rightfully do, would you notice? Would you notice walking down the street on the sidewalk? Would you think about walking down the street on the sidewalk? No, it is rightfully so, that's why you don't think about walking on the sidewalks every time you are walking down the street. It's this rightfulness. Or should I say the strong belief of rightfulness, that make you pull the trigger, without remorse, without emotion and without thoughts.

When you believe what you are doing is just, you simply won't think about it as much, and once you acquired that conviction. Killing a person would be a lot easier. He can be a she, he can be just a kids, she can be a mother. But when you acquired that conviction, it does not actually matters.

Now, let's go back to what I say in the beginning of this post. Can you kill a person without hate? No, but the thing is, you also cannot kills solely rely on hate. The term "Fire your weapon in anger" never actually existed. Why? How do you know if you kill a man because you hate him or her? Not because it was justified? If you kill a man solely because of hate, then that's not killing, that's murder. Then you did not just kill a inhuman, but a murder victim.

But then that was over there, things is a bit different for soldier without war. Without the need to kill people, now, we all see thing differently, your "enemies" is just like you, coming out of a family, they may have someone waiting for them to go home, they may like the same music as yours, they may have the same taste of wine or food. Literally you and him/her can be best friend had the circumstance changes.

When the war is over, the need of killing subsided. You start seeing thing in another perspective. They are not something you need to kill to get on, they are just people, on the other side of the world, practically doing the same job... What to hate??

 

[punit]

First, they killed a kid at the University of Hyderabad. Dalit boy, on a scholarship, who agitated against what he felt was a miscarriage of justice. For that, they threw him out of his rooms; his stipend, his research scholarship, had already not been paid for six months, for other, bureaucratic reasons. He hanged himself in a friend's room.

Then, they framed a phony case against the president of the JNU, and plan to charge him with sedition. Simple Dalit kid from Bihar (notice how the Dalit theme comes up again and again). He was arrested, and on his way to the court, assaulted by lawyers supporting the Sangh Parivar, with the cops standing by and grinning. The Supreme Court ordered his protection; he got beaten up again. The main goon has had his picture taken with the Home Minister earlier. Then they found that the seventh signatory on one of their student petitions was a Muslim, whose father had been a SIMI member, long before SIMI was banned. He then came into their sights. Finally, the student body secretary, a Kashmiri Muslim girl, is now under attack. And it goes on and on.

HAHHA stop lying sir ... the so called dalit boy from Bihar is actually Bhumihar .. the Apex Predator in the caste jungle of bihar ! but why let truth come in the way in your story ! The son of SIMI leader was chanting : Bharat ki barbadi tak jang jari rahegi !

 

[Joe Shearer]

HAHHA stop lying sir ... the so called dalit boy from Bihar is actually Bhumihar .. the Apex Predator in the caste jungle of bihar ! but why let truth come in the way in your story ! The son of SIMI leader was chanting : Bharat ki barbadi tak jang jari rahegi !

The situation loses nothing from the change you ascribe to the caste of Kanhaiya Kumar. Your statement is a smokescreen.

1. It does not alter the nature of the original protest at University of Hyderabad, which was a protest against the execution of Afzal Guru. Very many people, including judicial experts, believe that this was a travesty of justice.
2. It does not take away from the right of any citizen to speak his or her mind about the issue, without being attacked by mindless morons who are themselves anti-nationals, since they deny the constitutional methods their validity, and base their physical attacks on their own personal, internal sensations of being offended.
3. It does not take away from the fact that there was a spurious claim of injury to an ABVP student leader, later found to be lying about his injury (he claimed that his appendicitis was due to being beaten).
4. It does not take away from the fact that the BJP MP from the area wrote to the Human Resources Ministry, asserting that the association to which Rohith belonged was a trouble-making one.
5. It does not take away from the fact that on receiving this letter, the zealous, work-obsessed Human Resources Ministry then wrote four letters within about ten days, asking the VC of the University of Hyderabad what action had been taken on the complaint of a 'VIP'.
6. It does not take away from the fact that a fact-finding committee had found Rohith NOT GUILTY of assaulting the ABVP leader but that this was rejected by the supposedly injured person, and a further complaint placed against Rohith.
7. It does not take away from the fact that six months' worth of stipend had already been withheld, ostensibly because of changes in Rohith's focus of study, but as numerous people who have been intrigued about it have pointed out, due to complete lack of movement of the file.
8. It does not take away from the fact that a savage personal attack was mounted on Rohith and his other fellow-students, alleging that (all of the following being false or legally unsound)
   • they were wasting tax-payer money, that
   • they were anti-national (!),
   • they were directly treasonable and/or seditious,

This was about the incident at Hyderabad. There is a different, and more pathetic narrative about the incident at Delhi, which needs its own space.

 

[ranjeet]

HAHHA stop lying sir ... the so called dalit boy from Bihar is actually Bhumihar .. the Apex Predator in the caste jungle of bihar ! but why let truth come in the way in your story ! The son of SIMI leader was chanting : Bharat ki barbadi tak jang jari rahegi !

The situation loses nothing from the change you ascribe to the caste of Kanhaiya Kumar. Your statement is a smokescreen.

1. It does not alter the nature of the original protest at University of Hyderabad, which was a protest against the execution of Afzal Guru. Very many people, including judicial experts, believe that this was a travesty of justice.
2. It does not take away from the right of any citizen to speak his or her mind about the issue, without being attacked by mindless morons who are themselves anti-nationals, since they deny the constitutional methods their validity, and base their physical attacks on their own personal, internal sensations of being offended.
3. It does not take away from the fact that there was a spurious claim of injury to an ABVP student leader, later found to be lying about his injury (he claimed that his appendicitis was due to being beaten).
4. It does not take away from the fact that the BJP MP from the area wrote to the Human Resources Ministry, asserting that the association to which Rohith belonged was a trouble-making one.
5. It does not take away from the fact that on receiving this letter, the zealous, work-obsessed Human Resources Ministry then wrote four letters within about ten days, asking the VC of the University of Hyderabad what action had been taken on the complaint of a 'VIP'.
6. It does not take away from the fact that a fact-finding committee had found Rohith NOT GUILTY of assaulting the ABVP leader but that this was rejected by the supposedly injured person, and a further complaint placed against Rohith.
7. It does not take away from the fact that six months' worth of stipend had already been withheld, ostensibly because of changes in Rohith's focus of study, but as numerous people who have been intrigued about it have pointed out, due to complete lack of movement of the file.
8. It does not take away from the fact that a savage personal attack was mounted on Rohith and his other fellow-students, alleging that (all of the following being false or legally unsound)
   • they were wasting tax-payer money, that
   • they were anti-national (!),
   • they were directly treasonable and/or seditious,

This was about the incident at Hyderabad. There is a different, and more pathetic narrative about the incident at Delhi, which needs its own space.

If the truth about his caste is a smokescreen what was your attempt to paint him as a Dalit?

 

[MilSpec]

First, they killed a kid at the University of Hyderabad. Dalit boy, on a scholarship, who agitated against what he felt was a miscarriage of justice. For that, they threw him out of his rooms; his stipend, his research scholarship, had already not been paid for six months, for other, bureaucratic reasons. He hanged himself in a friend's room.

Then, they framed a phony case against the president of the JNU, and plan to charge him with sedition. Simple Dalit kid from Bihar (notice how the Dalit theme comes up again and again). He was arrested, and on his way to the court, assaulted by lawyers supporting the Sangh Parivar, with the cops standing by and grinning. The Supreme Court ordered his protection; he got beaten up again. The main goon has had his picture taken with the Home Minister earlier. Then they found that the seventh signatory on one of their student petitions was a Muslim, whose father had been a SIMI member, long before SIMI was banned. He then came into their sights. Finally, the student body secretary, a Kashmiri Muslim girl, is now under attack. And it goes on and on.

With all due respect, all of these cases generated a debate, let's not assume people are fools, they can see through the merit, but in the same breath, how many articles, how many TV shows or how many debates happened on the teacher who was Hacked to pieces in front of his students in Kerela by Commie thugs? No intolerance, no Civil rights, no outrage.
An idiot insulting a religion - National Security Risk,
ten idiots insulting a nation - Free speech.
Lawyers turning into goon in Patiala house court - India's Tiananmen
Muslims burning Police stations in Malda - Absolute Kosher.

At th end of the day it's all BJP's fault. That's the conclusion irrespective of what the observations are.

1. It does not alter the nature of the original protest at University of Hyderabad, which was a protest against the execution of Afzal Guru. Very many people, including judicial experts, believe that this was a travesty of justice

What would you say, forget the Judicial experts,

 

[third eye]

The villain of the piece is unmistakably and unequivocally the BJP.

After the OROP fiasco I see BJP a little skeptically.

However, on the JNU issue I feel they needed to have been harsher still. We as a nation have had enough of all this.

Seeking destruction of the nation is not dissent its sedition & must be treated as such.

I suggest we shut this here as I choose not to get into a political argument with a fellow ex serviceman on a Pak forum.

 

[Cherokee]

The situation loses nothing from the change you ascribe to the caste of Kanhaiya Kumar. Your statement is a smokescreen.

1. It does not alter the nature of the original protest at University of Hyderabad, which was a protest against the execution of Afzal Guru. Very many people, including judicial experts, believe that this was a travesty of justice.
2. It does not take away from the right of any citizen to speak his or her mind about the issue, without being attacked by mindless morons who are themselves anti-nationals, since they deny the constitutional methods their validity, and base their physical attacks on their own personal, internal sensations of being offended.
3. It does not take away from the fact that there was a spurious claim of injury to an ABVP student leader, later found to be lying about his injury (he claimed that his appendicitis was due to being beaten).
4. It does not take away from the fact that the BJP MP from the area wrote to the Human Resources Ministry, asserting that the association to which Rohith belonged was a trouble-making one.
5. It does not take away from the fact that on receiving this letter, the zealous, work-obsessed Human Resources Ministry then wrote four letters within about ten days, asking the VC of the University of Hyderabad what action had been taken on the complaint of a 'VIP'.
6. It does not take away from the fact that a fact-finding committee had found Rohith NOT GUILTY of assaulting the ABVP leader but that this was rejected by the supposedly injured person, and a further complaint placed against Rohith.
7. It does not take away from the fact that six months' worth of stipend had already been withheld, ostensibly because of changes in Rohith's focus of study, but as numerous people who have been intrigued about it have pointed out, due to complete lack of movement of the file.
8. It does not take away from the fact that a savage personal attack was mounted on Rohith and his other fellow-students, alleging that (all of the following being false or legally unsound)
   • they were wasting tax-payer money, that
   • they were anti-national (!),
   • they were directly treasonable and/or seditious,

This was about the incident at Hyderabad. There is a different, and more pathetic narrative about the incident at Delhi, which needs its own space.

The saddest part id voice like yours is minority .

 

[Joe Shearer]

If the truth about his caste is a smokescreen what was your attempt to paint him as a Dalit?

Because that was the original news that arrived and I was reflecting it.

My turn: When will you stop beating your wife?

The saddest part id voice like yours is minority .

On a forum like this. Does it matter? Have you detected in me any inhibition due to being in lesser numbers than the other side?

Do you have any idea how things are turning in general netspace?

all twisting and turning aside... u are just a pathetic liar and thats the bottom line!

And, as in the real-life incident playing out in Delhi and in Hyderabad, it is the bhakt like you who decides?

 

[Cherokee]

On a forum like this. Does it matter? Have you detected in me any inhibition due to being in lesser numbers than the other side?

Do you have any idea how things are turning in general netspace?

I am fighting a battle with my own friends . A simple FB post against what they perceive to be nationalistic becomes a bone of contention . I was center right . More the right pushed more i deviated to left and more the people in my FL got crazy .