Society, Women and Behashti Zewar

[VCheng]

Apparently, the book is really very similar to what was told in the article.

What century is this?

 

[Secur]

The Maulana's not so logical explanation of why women shouldn't leave their home (not visit their relatives, friends or be present in any gathering).

What century is this?

Exactly, what I expect from every person who can read and understand Urdu. The level of subservience demanded, the freedom of expression and movement curbed, the functioning limited and more tragically the curbing of the free thought process is mind boggling.

 

[VCheng]

Exactly, what I expect from every person who can read and understand Urdu. The level of subservience demanded, the freedom of expression and movement curbed, the functioning limited and more tragically the curbing of the free thought process is mind boggling.

I agree with you here. The problem is that anybody saying that openly will be chastised, hounded, and even harmed into silence in present day Pakistan. What is truly scary is not the level of subservience advocated and demanded, it is the extent to which such ideas are held by society-at-large in Pakistan.

In this day and age, look at it these ways:

Would I want a wife who is nothing more than a glorified servant and sexual partner?

Would I want my daughter to be treated like this when she is married off?

Would I want my son to treat his wife in such a manner?

No, no, and no!

 

[araz]

Bahisti Zewar "One of the most authentic book of Islam" ......... MY A$$.

Hurrah!!!! Someone has spoken the truth at last. Guys the problem that we have is the lack of understanding of our deen. Following of the Quran and sunnah has become defunct and people are beginning to vent opinions without any knowledge.
Now understand this well. The reason for writing this book was to provide women with some basic knowledge of their deen in a time when education amongst women was not common. If you have read the book you will realize that the urdu is such that 90% of our teddy generation wont understand it. Therefore the book has lost utility in modern times. However us IDIOT MUSLIMS are so stooped in tradition that we have to pass it on to the newly weds eve ln today like it is the Quran (NaOuzo Billahe.).
The content of the book itself takes from the prevalent practices in islam of the time which are mixed in with traditional values. However a lot of the information contained pertains to the religion.
For instance for a woman it is not right to keep a nafili fast if her husband desires her not to do so. To be obedient to the husband is also true as the family structure does not function if there are two bosses.
There are things which are untrue. For instance the right of a woman to hold an opinion. Looking at the life of Rasool Allah SAW we find the best example of how a man should conduct himself. He was compassionate and understanding. There are instances where our Mother Ayesha Siddiqa had fights with the prophet and she shouted at him. Yet again we see Rasool Allah SAW playing with the dolls with Ayesha and even racing with her.
We als have the example of Fatima RA coming to the prophet and asking for a slave to help with her chores and he eefused on grounds that the Prophets family should not live a life of extravagance.
We also find the best amongst the Ummah of our beloved Prophet SAW advising his Daughter Asma RA when she complained to him that Az Zubair RAmade her work very hard that a husband can be a reason for a woman going into Jannah or Naar.
In short the relationship between man and woman especially in marriage is one of mutual compassion and understanding. Like Maulana Saheb gave the example of the woman whose husband was a scoundrel and yet she was obedient to him she is indeed a jannatti on account of showing patience when her husband committed sins and imposed rigors on her.
So in short there are good and bad things about the book. You have to give Maulana saheb credit for fulfilling a need that existed in those times. Insha Allah he will get ajr for all the good that the book has resulted in and may Allah forgive him the errors that he may have made.
AGAIN I WANT TO EMPHASISE THAT OF LATE A LOT OF TOPICS RELATED TO THE DEEN HAVE BEEN OPENED QND DISCUSSED BY PEO0LE WHO HAVE LITTLE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT. THE CONTEXT MAY BE TO LEARN BUG THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE NATURE OF THE PARTICIPANTS IS WRONG AND THIS NEEDS TO BE DISCOURAGED. WE NEED TO STICK TO SUBJECT RELATED TO DEFENCE WHEEE THE WEBSITE HAS EXPERTS AND CONFINE MATTERS PERTAINING TO RELIGION TO FORA AND BOARDS APPROPRIATELY TRAINED TO DEAL WITH ISSUES ARISING. ALSO PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT JUST BECAUSE AN AAALIM HAS MADE A MISTAKE DOEA NOT MEAN THAT HIS AJR AND INDEED HIS CONTRIBUTION IS ANY LESS. For each good thing that an aalim does he gets double ajr. If he makes a MISTAKE he still gets ajr from Allah SWT. May Allah SWT give ample ajr to Maulana saheb cor his contributions to provision of knowledge to our women.Ameen.

 

[VCheng]

Yeah, shut down any critical thought. Heaven forbid! Way to go!

Please know that religion lies at the heart of the existential problems Pakistan is facing today, and shutting down debate is no way helpful.

 

[Secur]

Hurrah!!!! Someone has spoken the truth at last. Guys the problem that we have is the lack of understanding of our deen. Following of the Quran and sunnah has become defunct and people are beginning to vent opinions without any knowledge.

Without any knowledge? Seriously? How do we assume that? Because I have read the book in detail by now and the more I read it, the more I am astonished at the narrow mindedness and disregard for women shown in its text. Most of you claim how Islam is very easy to understand and act upon yet when someone will try to understand and give his/her opinion and specially when that opinion goes against your opinion or is heaven forbid critical, it is always declared to be without knowledge and consideration.

You approve of the defense of the feudal system and male chauvinism under the guise of religion even in his own time? It can be seen that despite talking against the "cultural deviations from Islam" and "man-made practices" initially, the revered Maulana succumbed to the same during the process.

n short the relationship between man and woman especially in marriage is one of mutual compassion and understanding. Like Maulana Saheb gave the example of the woman whose husband was a scoundrel and yet she was obedient to him she is indeed a jannatti on account of showing patience when her husband committed sins and imposed rigors on her.

Yes indeed, that was the best course of action for the poor lady proudly presented as an example for all of women. She might be heaven bound for showing patience however I am not certain if that is a course of action to be encouraged or to advice "hopelessness and helplessness" in dealing with such matters since any form of compulsion or forceful action would always be counterproductive as appropriate!

WE NEED TO STICK TO SUBJECT RELATED TO DEFENCE WHEEE THE WEBSITE HAS EXPERTS AND CONFINE MATTERS PERTAINING TO RELIGION TO FORA AND BOARDS APPROPRIATELY TRAINED TO DEAL WITH ISSUES ARISING.

The paradoxical problem is that such boards consider it near-blasphemy and utter disrespect to question or be critical of anything related to the religion. And no, most of them consists of cyber-Mullahs and arm chair Aalims making simple observations or repeating "heard and read" knowledge.

 

[VCheng]

the more I read it, the more I am astonished at the narrow mindedness and disregard for women shown in its text.

Why are you astonished, Sir?

Do you not see all around you how narrow minded and widespread the disregard is for women in Pakistani society from rural areas to TV dramas to vast numbers of middle class households and every layer in between? The real tragedy is that Islam, one of the most open-minded and fair religions ever, is used as the basis for all this misogyny, and it is accepted with bowed heads and nary a whimper.

Nay, Sir, you should learn to expect it, without astonishment.

 

[Zarvan]

Provision of hitting your wife if she doesn't do makeup despite repeated asking. Order to consider "day as night" and "night as day" if your husband asks. To not ask their husbands for anything as long as they can avoid it. Even if you are distressed by his behavior or actions, to keep well quiet and be patient over it and strangely not tell him about it.

Even if it is his own mistake and he's angry with you, even then you shouldn't be angry and beg for forgiveness by imploring. Don't think yourself equal to him and don't ask to do any work ever. You aren't allowed to ask him for any accountancy for his salary and if your husband's parents are alive, give all that money to them (even if he gives it to you first)

The most important part is where he orders the women to keep quiet (don't tell anyone about it, don't get angry and don't pester him) after "politely" explaining their husband's mistake to them if he sleeps around with other women or engages in any other perversion, since it can result in his displeasure and since you obviously can't do anything in that regard except what you have already done. And since somehow God's pleasure is acquired by having patience over it. He further adds that since the creator has made man "a lion" and thus his will cant be bend by any compulsion or force. Then presents with an example from Lucknow, India of a women who's husband was like that and praises her for her silent acceptance and sucking up of the whole situation.

@Zarvan
@Color_Less_Sky

Apparently, the book is really very similar to what was told in the article.

Many things are Molana personal opinion not from Quran and Sunnah not hitting is allowed that too very lightly. Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW took a maswak and hit his body lightly to show How light you have to hit. This provision is if the women is involved in some seriously bad thing mainly infidelity. Other things you quoted have nothing to do with Quran and Sunnah but this is small part of books fraud and liars and cheats like Mubarak Ali always come up with selectedselected things.

 

[Secur]

Other things you quoted have nothing to do with Quran and Sunnah but this is small part of books fraud and liars and cheats like Mubarak Ali always come up with selectedselected things.

How is the author of the article a cheater, fraudster and liar for pointing out things which you yourself acknowledge now are there in the book? What was with the "he has been exposed many times part" if your own opinion regarding the presence of such things in the said book has changed so drastically from "they aren't there" to "they form but a small part of it"? Why is criticism so unbearable for the hyper religious garden out there? He's right to point out the "selected selected things" since they are an attempt to breeding a slave mentality and are oppressing, he's not of the opinion that they are from Islam, now is he? He's a critic and he's more likely to choose parts which can be criticized, that doesn't again make the criticism invalid.

Many things are Molana personal opinion

Maulana's personal opinion, as he himself points out, is in line with the "opinion of the wise" on the subject. It wasn't only one man then, who got these things wrong.

 

[VCheng]

Why is criticism so unbearable for the hyper religious garden out there?

Because they have no way to counter intelligent questioning. They are scared that, if allowed, a trickle of questions can become an unstoppable flood that will carry away their stranglehold on the people's minds. A select few posts have already tried to shut even this thread down for the same reason, very predictably.

 

[Secur]

Because they have no way to counter intelligent questioning. They are scared that if allowed, a trickle of questions can become an unstoppable flood that will carry away their stranglehold on the people's minds. a select few posts have already tried to shut even this thread down for the same reason.

Look at the logic:

I acknowledge that what he's saying is there but the authors a fraud and a liar for pointing it out!

I am amazed, again.

 

[VCheng]

Look at the logic:

I acknowledge that what he's saying is there but the authors a fraud and a liar for pointing it out!

I am amazed, again.

And, again, Sir, I will tell you to expect such responses without amazement. They are utterly predictable, these religious automatons.

 

[syedali73]

@Secur As I said previously and @araz reiterated it, the book is based on the understanding of Islam of those who belonged to Deobandi School of thought, and an Islam that had been, what I call, 'indianized'. Many things that you find objectionable (and rightly so) with reference to how women should behave and act are somehow connected with or influenced by Indian culture, which required absolute submission from a woman, so absolute that she was required to die together with her husband. It is a misconception that Behisht zewar is a female-only book, it is not. My mother made me to read it, and it was common among the women to make this book read to their children so they could understand their religion well. The principals that have laid out in the book for women are as much relevant and applicable to males. Moulana Thanvi wrote this book because he was aware of the limitations of Muslims females who due to cultural restrictions could not readily consult with some religious scholar and find out solution of certain problems. Please note that the book is not based on Moulana Thanvis' personal opinion about Islam but he has always consulted with Fiqh and Hadith. You can argue with Moulana's (or his School of Thought) interpretation of Fiqh and Hidth but it would be unfair to consider him a dishonest or vicious person.

As far as prohibiting board, card games, reading novels, stories etc it concerned, it was pretty much a norm of the day(and until few decades ago) for parents would consider these things waste of time and used to encourage their kids to use the time in doing things more productive such as praying, reading religious or syllabus books, learning riding, wrestling etc.

Padho gey likho gey bano gey nawab, hailo gey koodo gey hogey kharab

Though the abovementioned proverb or saying has pretty much lost its relevance as most pro player earn thousands time more than those who have a PhD, it just shows how people think differently in different times.

In my opinion, Moulana has done a great service to Muslims of India and Allah will reward him for that. He was an honest and pious person who wrote this book to serve Islam. We understand it now or agree or not with its contents does not take away the credit from him of writing such a huge, comprehensive, and useful book. I would request Mr Mubarak Ali to write a better book if he could rather than taking cheap shots at selective portions of the said book without really appreciating the time and culture in which the book was written.

@Secur I'll also suggest you to stop mocking Islam (I am getting this impression) with one moron here who is know for ridiculing Islam and Muslims. I respect your opinion (hence engaging with you) but ridiculing a religion with somebody who has an axe to grind against it leaves bad impression about you.

 

[VCheng]

@Secur Where have I ridiculed any religion, including Islam?!

 

[Secur]

@Secur I'll also suggest you to stop mocking Islam (I am getting this impression) with one moron here who is know for ridiculing Islam and Muslims. I respect your opinion (hence engaging with you) but ridiculing a religion with somebody who has an axe to grind against it leaves bad impression about you.

Mate, despite the chance that you may have gotten the idea of "mockery of religion" from my aggressive tone or criticism, that hasn't been my intention. The entire time I have been here or every single post I have made, the criticism and anger has been directed at the author of the book for obvious reasons. I don't think (and will never) that the opinions presented in the book or the undertones of subservience and blind-following have anything remotely to do with the religion. And neither do I think that @Syed.Ali.Haider was trying to mock/insult Islam in this thread.