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So much can change in 3/4 century, Poland appeals to Germany to save Europe

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UPDATE 1-Poland appeals to Germany to save Europe | Reuters

WARSAW, Nov 29 (Reuters) - Europe stands on the brink of disaster and only Germany, its biggest economy, can avert an "apocalyptic" breakup of the euro zone and the EU's single market, Poland's foreign minister said in a dramatic appeal to Berlin.

"There is nothing inevitable about Europe's decline. But we are standing on the edge of a precipice. This is the scariest moment of my ministerial life but therefore also the most sublime," Radoslaw Sikorski said in Berlin on Monday evening.

"I demand of Germany that, for your own sake and for ours, you help it (the euro zone) survive and prosper. You know full well that nobody else can do it."

Alluding to his country's troubled past ties with its bigger, richer western neighbour, Sikorski said: "I will probably be the first Polish foreign minister in history to say so but here it is: I fear German power less than I am beginning to fear German inactivity".

Sikorski said the euro zone's sovereign debt crisis posed the biggest threat to the prosperity and stability of Poland, the EU's largest post-communist member state which is outside the common currency but still hopes one day to join.

In an opinion piece in the Financial Times echoing aspects of his Berlin speech, Sikorski wrote: "The break up of the eurozone would be a crisis of apocalyptic proportions, going beyond our financial system".

The EU's single market would be unlikely to survive such a trauma, he said.

GERMAN CONCERNS

Sikorski did not spell out what Poland wanted Germany to do, but Polish officials have in the past expressed support for euro bonds jointly guaranteed by euro zone nations.

Berlin has also come under heavy international pressure to allow the European Central Bank to embark on unrestricted purchases of stricken euro zone countries' sovereign debt through quantitative easing.

Germany has so far strongly opposed both eurobonds and a more active role for the ECB, citing fears that indebted countries would no longer have an incentive to reform their economies, as well as concerns about reigniting inflation.

Euro zone finance ministers were due to agree on Tuesday the details of bolstering their bailout fund to help prevent contagion in bond markets.

In his speech, Sikorski supported calls for much closer economic integration in the EU, including greater supervisory powers over national budgets for the European Commission, the bloc's executive arm, but said sensitive issues such as taxation should remain under the control of member states.

"The draconian powers to supervise national budgets should be wielded only by agreement of the European Parliament," he added, underscoring Warsaw's reservations about handing too much power over core policy areas to the unelected Commission.

The British-educated Sikorski was re-confirmed as foreign minister this month after Prime Minister Donald Tusk's centre-right, pro-euro government won an Oct. 9 election.

The Tusk government, which currently holds the EU's rotating presidency, has forged good ties with Germany, Poland's biggest trade partner, since taking power in 2007.

The leader of Poland's main opposition party, the right-wing, eurosceptic Law and Justice party, sharply criticised Sikorski's Berlin speech, accusing the government of surrendering the country's hard-won independence.

"In the past many Poles perished fighting for precisely those things that the government representatives are giving away without a word of protest," said Jaroslaw Kaczynski in a statement.

He also criticised Tusk for not recognising that the tendency for big European powers, especially Germany and France, to take decisions on behalf of the wider EU posed a threat to Polish interests.

Despite Sikorski's appeal to Berlin to show leadership, many Poles remain instinctively wary of Germany, which brutally occupied their country during World War Two.
 
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Japan lost two world wars as well, almost best economy in world. Conclusion: being defeated = economic awakening
:D
 
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We were an economic and scientific powerhouse before the world wars as well. Both world wars were great mistakes of our governments, instead of invading Russia, a close economic relationship whould have been better. The USSR at that time needed badly German technology and we needed the natural resources. Hitler was just utterly stupid and ideologically blinded.
 
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Götterdämmerung;2342473 said:
We were an economic and scientific powerhouse before the world wars as well. Both world wars were great mistakes of our governments, instead of invading Russia, a close economic relationship whould have been better. The USSR at that time needed badly German technology and we needed the natural resources. Hitler was just utterly stupid and ideologically blinded.
And some of the technology that we see today especially related to "stealth" aircrafts was stolen by USA from Germany.
 
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Götterdämmerung;2342473 said:
We were an economic and scientific powerhouse before the world wars as well. Both world wars were great mistakes of our governments, instead of invading Russia, a close economic relationship whould have been better. The USSR at that time needed badly German technology and we needed the natural resources. Hitler was just utterly stupid and ideologically blinded.

Germany wasn't this economic powerhouse you speak of. It had an Empire through conquest but it never did much more than economically collapse very quickly.

What technology did the USSR badly need from Germany? They were industrializing much like Germany at the time was.
 
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Germany wasn't this economic powerhouse you speak of. It had an Empire through conquest but it never did much more than economically collapse very quickly.

What technology did the USSR badly need from Germany? They were industrializing much like Germany at the time was.

Never heard of Krupp, Thyssen, Siemens, BASF, Bayer. All of them were already huge companies long before WWI and the creation of the USSR. Look at the list of Nobel laureats for chemistry and physics before WWII.

Germany didn't have many colonies to speak of, because our nation state was created rather late in 1871. But by that time Germany was already highly industrialised.

All our colonies were gone after WWI (1918), at best we had 40 years of colonial time.
 
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Götterdämmerung;2342669 said:
Never heard of Krupp, Thyssen, Siemens, BASF, Bayer. All of them were already huge companies long before WWI and the creation of the USSR. Look at the list of Nobel laureats for chemistry and physics before WWII.

Germany didn't have many colonies to speak of, because our nation state was created rather late in 1871. But by that time Germany was already highly industrialised.

All our colonies were gone after WWI (1918), at best we had 40 years of colonial time.

you think colonialism didn't help set up the industrialization process in Germany? The Wermacht Republic was an utter failure economically.

I agree that Germany did have some companies like you said. Is your point that the Soviet Union didn't have any companies and couldn't offer anything to Germany?
 
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German had no colonial possessions save for Togo, German east Africa and a few pacific possessions. German did have a well established industrial area in Saar valley and an excellent merchant shipping, next only to Britain. German machinery was in great demand, and firms like Krupp or IG Farben or Porsche were world class. Post WW-I, two pariah nations Germany and Soviet Union got together. Germans supplied heavy machinery and machine tools to power Soviet industrialization. German got raw materials and a place to conduct military exercises.
 
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you think colonialism didn't help set up the industrialization process in Germany? The Wermacht Republic was an utter failure economically.

I agree that Germany did have some companies like you said. Is your point that the Soviet Union didn't have any companies and couldn't offer anything to Germany?

You seem to know little to nothing about German history.

First of all it was the Weimar Republic, because the republic was proclaimed in the city of Weimar. The Wehrmacht was Germany's military.

Germany's industrialisation was set up with the reparations from the Franco-German war when Germany was victorious and the Second Reich was proclaimed in Versailles. Now you also understand why Germany had to pay such high reparations to France after WWI. It was the revenge for 1871 and the humility that the German nation was proclaimed in the Hall of Mirrors in Versaille, the magnificient palace of King Louis XIV.

Russia was until the October Revolution a agrarian society. The Inustrialisation did't really start until the Bolshevik takeover. German industry and technology was superior to Russia, even today our tool machines are second to none.
 
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