Slow HAL impacting India's air combat strength : IAF to Govt

[Tshering22]

Wowwwww...astonishing Indian competency. If you do this in China, the whole team will get fired.

In India, government employees don't get fired unless they committed a criminal offence (murder, leaking national secrets, treason, rape, assassination etc).

Constitutionally, government employees are guaranteed a job regardless.

 

[ZedZeeshan]

In PSUs there is no or very less accountability .... L&T or Tata seems to be the best option to replace HAL

even TATA wants to earn money, they are not doing charity work and who else can understand the loop holes more then TATA..

 

[Crixus]

Paying money is not a problem , the PSUs were kind of black holes ....see how L&T built K-9 guns before dead lines and Bharat Forge made the gun better then OFB .
In govt organizations merit took back seat and in private the productivity and timelines are everything .....

Just FYI if you check how Tata to be precise TCS revolutionize the passport system in India... aviation is not an impossible sector for Indian corporate to master but all depends of govt there are some side effects of democracy also and its one of it

even TATA wants to earn money, they are not doing charity work and who else can understand the loop holes more then TATA..

 

[Windjammer]

What speaks for itself is the amount of time and money we are prepared to spend on an old aircraft just to keep it going, not irrelevant one-off incidents.

Not exactly through choice, the same story amongst others with MiG-21.

Choosing an American aircraft over a European one has nothing to do with the capability of the aircraft itself. You actually had to pay the full amount for European jets.

Yea you would surely know about PAF's operational requirements, since history is not exactly your strong point, let me remind you that PAF placed a follow up order for Mirage-Vs well into the 80s....

Of course, you guys apparently rejected the Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen etc, so we know what your standards really are.

Not sure where you pulled the others two from however the Typhoon initially was politely declined as it had some serious issues with it's VCS.....as for standards, how can any one compete with IAF on this which ironically has managed to crash over 50 twin engine Jaguars as well.

That's an IAF joke, genius. The RAF Jaguars did not face power problems due to their colder climate and older, less advanced configuration.

No dreamer, unless the former RAF Navigator who told me served under the IAF.
It's a well known fact that Jaguar in the RAF was severely underpowered.

 

[randomradio]

Not exactly through choice, the same story amongst others with MiG-21.

It is completely through choice. In fact IAF even bought 37 more and inducted them in the early 2000s. The Type even managed to score a kill against the Kitty Hawk.

The Migs are a different story, and are not expected to last long anyway. IAF didn't go out of their way to buy more Migs, like they did with the Jaguars or like PAF did with the F-7PG.

Yea you would surely know about PAF's operational requirements, since history is not exactly your strong point, let me remind you that PAF placed a follow up order for Mirage-Vs well into the 80s....

Hell, when we were upgrading our Migs with BVR missiles, HOBS+HMDS and EW suite, you guys were buying 85s era Migs and are still operating them without advanced capabilities. So please stop comparing our standards to yours.

Come to think of it, our AESA equipped Jaguars will be our least capable fighter jet by 2030. And you will still be operating those F-7PGs then.

Not sure where you pulled the others two from however the Typhoon initially was politely declined as it had some serious issues with it's VCS.....as for standards, how can any one compete with IAF on this which ironically has managed to crash over 50 twin engine Jaguars as well.

PAF's history of choosing aircraft has always been about who is paying for it. Yeah, you got lucky and bought some Mirages, mostly second hand, but the rest of your air force has some or the other country behind it.

 

[Trango Towers]

What speaks for itself is the amount of time and money we are prepared to spend on an old aircraft just to keep it going, not irrelevant one-off incidents.



Choosing an American aircraft over a European one has nothing to do with the capability of the aircraft itself. You actually had to pay the full amount for European jets.

Of course, you guys apparently rejected the Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen etc, so we know what your standards really are.



That's an IAF joke, genius. The RAF Jaguars did not face power problems due to their colder climate and older, less advanced configuration.

So older less advanced aircraft will not face problems but the newer more advanced aircraft will face problems....onky and indian can write this shit

 

[My-Analogous]

Slow HAL impacting India's air combat strength: IAF to Govt

Thursday, January 24, 2019

Production delays by state run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) have seriously impacted air combat strength, particularly when it comes to its Mirage 2000 and Jaguar fighter fleets that are currently undergoing upgrades, the air force has informed the government.

Pointing to delays ranging from two to six years, the air force has brought out that HAL has not been able to meet delivery schedules, resulting in both fleets being in a sub optimal state, besides raising questions on the trainer aircraft being developed by the agency.

The Mirage 2000 is India’s cutting edge fighter, tasked with a nuclear weapon delivery role as well. The Jaguar fleet was purchased in the late 1970s but is still a potent ground attack fighter designed for surgical, deep penetration missions.

However, in a review of the aeronautic company late last year, the air force has said that the series upgrade of 47 Mirage 2000 fighters that was signed in July 2011 has seen three production schedule delays already. It has informed the government that as per schedule, HAL should have delivered 21 upgraded jets but has actually been able to send only six.

Sources informed ET that since the review, one more jet has been delivered. HAL has blamed the delay on the non-availability of kits from France but the air force is not impressed by the argument, given that the contract was signed over seven years ago. Officials say this delay has seriously impacted operational preparedness as well as availability rate for the ‘very competent fighter’.

Besides the 47 Mirage fighters, the air force has also red flagged a six year delay in the upgrade of the Jaguar fleet to DARIN III standard. The contract to upgrade 61of these fighters was signed in December 2009, with the understanding that all of them would be ready by December 2017.

However, not a single aircraft has yet been delivered to the air force with HAL struggling to integrate a new radar on the jets. IAF has informed the government that it now expects the upgraded fighters to join service only by 2024.

Sources said the delay has again come at the cost of combat strength as it has pushed down availability of fighters. At present, an entire squadron strength of 20 fighters is not operational, awaiting the upgrade.

HAL’s record on the delivery of Su 30 MKI fighters has also been questioned, with the government being informed that there is an overall delay of three years in the production schedule. While all aircraft were to be delivered by 2017, HAL still has at least 23 of the fighters to deliver to the air force.

On trainer aircraft, the air force has raised questions on the development schedule of the HTT 40 basic trainer. While the timeline for certification of the trainer was February 2015, the air force says the project is running behind time and it is not expected that HAL will manage even to certify the aircraft as fit for service before 2021

Give this contact to Kamra and we will make it ROSE standard in no time within limited resources

 

[randomradio]

So older less advanced aircraft will not face problems but the newer more advanced aircraft will face problems....onky and indian can write this shit

Yep, it's normal. Newer aircraft become heavier, that's also why they get engine upgrades, which Jaguar did not.

 

[Han Patriot]

In India, government employees don't get fired unless they committed a criminal offence (murder, leaking national secrets, treason, rape, assassination etc).

Constitutionally, government employees are guaranteed a job regardless.

That's the problem, you lack meritocracy. The governmental system is screwing India up.

 

[El Sidd]

IAF does not meet its operational demands. This is an open secret about the white elephant of Asia.

 

[Tshering22]

That's the problem, you lack meritocracy. The governmental system is screwing India up.

Completely agree.

The problem here is that meritorious people get to join big private companies and move up the ladder. An average good post-graduate working with a big company like L&T or Tata or even Infosys would learn enough stuff in 5 years, versus someone in a government department who would learn the same in probably 20 years.

Sadly, only a declared emergency can eliminate this system, which no government has the guts to enforce.

Not even the current Hindu nationalist government, which is considered determined and hard-nosed, will ever enforce an emergency. For your understanding, an 'emergency' is a rule which is enforced where the PM becomes the god for a short duration. His or her signature is the law and it has to be complied, to the extent that your democratic rights are dependent on it. Any defiance of the law means the government can virtually do anything with you.

The last time we had something like that was in 1975-77 (for very wrong reasons, not to make the country better). But for 2 years, government workers were the role models for rest of the country. Streets were safe, clean and everyone was doing their job properly.

 

[Han Patriot]

Completely agree.

The problem here is that meritorious people get to join big private companies and move up the ladder. An average good post-graduate working with a big company like L&T or Tata or even Infosys would learn enough stuff in 5 years, versus someone in a government department who would learn the same in probably 20 years.

Sadly, only a declared emergency can eliminate this system, which no government has the guts to enforce.

Not even the current Hindu nationalist government, which is considered determined and hard-nosed, will ever enforce an emergency. For your understanding, an 'emergency' is a rule which is enforced where the PM becomes the god for a short duration. His or her signature is the law and it has to be complied, to the extent that your democratic rights are dependent on it. Any defiance of the law means the government can virtually do anything with you.

The last time we had something like that was in 1975-77 (for very wrong reasons, not to make the country better). But for 2 years, government workers were the role models for rest of the country. Streets were safe, clean and everyone was doing their job properly.

Yah, the Indira Gandhi emergency right?

 

[Tshering22]

Yah, the Indira Gandhi emergency right?

Yeah.

I personally believe that we have too much freedom as a society, something which we are not ready for right now. There is a lot more education, progress and intellectual development needed to at least 60% of the population, before democracy can actually become successful.

Sadly, most of my fellow Indians here are brainwashed to believe that no democracy = North Korea (which is not the case).

 

[Han Patriot]

Yeah.

I personally believe that we have too much freedom as a society, something which we are not ready for right now. There is a lot more education, progress and intellectual development needed to at least 60% of the population, before democracy can actually become successful.

Sadly, most of my fellow Indians here are brainwashed to believe that no democracy = North Korea (which is not the case).

I believe some sort of democracy like Singapore would b good. Ultimately it's good to have the smartest people to govern you. You can't blame the majority of Indian, who don't have the luxury to think long term, they are not even sure if they can have the next meal.