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Slaughtering the Khmer Rouge 1978: True or False ?

The 1979 Sino-Vietnam War is indeed a bullying event. Right now, the information I got from PRC side shows that significant PRC people are aware that they are in the wrong. Unfortunately Vietnamese cannot access these material because all written in Chinese language. The 2 main reason for war

1) Deng Xiaoping use it to purge the army and to plant his own generals. Deng Xiaoping was not a strongman initially. But the 1979 war allowed him to purge PLA and consolidated his power.

2) Deng Xiaoping wanted to join the USA gang. So he use Sino-Vietnam war and Cambodian issue to please USA. Immediately, USA open market and transfer a lot of technology to China, until 1989.

Deng is quite wicked in the sense that he will kill a lot for his objective. He did it over and over again many times, and the PRC actually suffered a lot of casualties under Deng as well.
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We also day like that in VN book, but we dont translate it into E ,maybe to avoid conflict with China in ( international matter)
I am not saying Vietnam made no mistake. The Vietnamese pogroms against ethnic Chinese is a big disaster. Almost 800,000 ethnic Chinese got expelled from Vietnam. This is among the biggest humanitarian disaster for Chinese.
Yeah, our mistake was we r too proud of defeating mighty USA after 1975, so we got angry with China when they refused to return Paracel islands( that they killed VNese and robbed from us in 1974) and start deporting ethnic Chinese ,then got border war, sanction after that
 
When you said Thai, Chinese, hate Vietnamese, you should show some strong proof. You said like "European hates Jews"

As I know, we never attack Thailand, but few times under attacks by Thai right in our land, find Rach Gam - Xoai Mut battle.
We ever fight Thai in their attempt to dominate Laos,
Btw, Thailand is not our neighbor in land.


Don't forget Thailand gave some military bases like U-tapao for B52 of US to bomber Vietnam also send troops to South Vietnam. What should you call that act ?

Beside, Thailand received Chinese military aid and pass to Khmer Rouge, even give room for Khmer Rouge to stay in Thailand

Genocide

The Cham community suffered a major blow during the Khmer Rouge rule. During the mass killings by the government, a disproportionate number of Chams were killed compared with ethnic Khmers.[20] Ysa Osman, a researcher at the Documentation Center of Cambodia concludes, "Perhaps as many as 500,000 died. They were considered the Khmer Rouge's No. 1 enemy. The plan was to exterminate them all" because "they stood out. They worshipped their own God. Their diet was different. Their names and language were different. They lived by different rules. The Khmer Rouge wanted everyone to be equal, and when the Chams practiced Islam they did not appear to be equal. So they were punished."[21]
 
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When you said Thai, Chinese, hate Vietnamese, you should show some strong proof. You said like "European hates Jews"

As I know, we never attack Thailand, but few times under attacks by Thai right in our land, find Rach Gam - Xoai Mut battle.
We ever fight Thai in their attempt to dominate Laos,
Btw, Thailand is not our neighbor in land.


Don't forget Thailand gave some military bases like U-tapao for B52 of US to bomber Vietnam also send troops to South Vietnam. What should you call that act ?

Beside, Thailand received Chinese military aid and pass to Khmer Rouge, even give room for Khmer Rouge to stay in Thailand

Genocide

The Cham community suffered a major blow during the Khmer Rouge rule. During the mass killings by the government, a disproportionate number of Chams were killed compared with ethnic Khmers.[20] Ysa Osman, a researcher at the Documentation Center of Cambodia concludes, "Perhaps as many as 500,000 died. They were considered the Khmer Rouge's No. 1 enemy. The plan was to exterminate them all" because "they stood out. They worshipped their own God. Their diet was different. Their names and language were different. They lived by different rules. The Khmer Rouge wanted everyone to be equal, and when the Chams practiced Islam they did not appear to be equal. So they were punished."[21]

And Cham people still hate Vietnam LOL. I repost all of my links, and btw, go see for yourself, go ask the Chams over at IOC who they hate, Vietnam or Cambodians? Cham fightrers fought against Vietnam even while Khmer Rouge was killing their leadership. Go look at IOC, its all about Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam, they only once mention the Khmer Rouge, be ause its finished- the Khmer Rouge is gone but Vietnam and its puppet regime in Cambodia is still there. The Cham even work with Khmer Krom against the Vietnamese government. Cham people are not fools. They know what Vietnam is doing to Cambodia, this Muslim Cham jounralist named Hassan exposed the Vietnamese government's dirty work in Cambodia.

Vietnam's hidden hand in Cambodia's impasse

Some in the West saw Vietnam as a magnanimous liberator in 1979, an occupying army that rescued Cambodia from the radical Khmer Rouge regime's massacre of its own people. But Hanoi's use of force turned a difficult situation to its geopolitical advantage, putting an end to the Khmer Rouge regime's nationalistic stance vis-a-vis Vietnam, including its combative insistence on resolutions to border disputes held over from the French colonial era.

The Khmer Rouge killed more Chinese Cambodians than any other ethnic minority, over 225,000 Chinese Cambodians were killed by them, along with the Thai, Cham, and other minorities,

The Specter of Genocide: Mass Murder in Historical Perspective - Google Books

Cambodia After the Khmer Rouge: Inside the Politics of Nation Building - Evan Gottesman - Google Books

The Cham's 1,000 year historical grudge with Vietnam, for them, outweighs the Khmer Rouge genocide. I didn't believe it with my own eyes and ears at first, but the Cham antagonism against Vietnam erased whatever bad feelings the with Cambodians that the Khmer Rouge caused, so that all Cham advocacy groups attack Vietnam and barely mentioned the Khmer Rouge.

Some Cham people in America said that they had a problem only with the Khmer Rouge, not the Khmer Cambodians people, while they had a problem with the Vietnamese people.

The reason they generally give is, that the Cham homeland is in southern Vietnam only, and that the Chams in Cambodia are descendants of Cham refugees fleeing the Vietnamese invasion of Champa, when the Cambodian King granted them refuge and allowed them to stay in Cambodia. So the blame for the Cham "exile" in Cambodia is placed on the Vietnamese while the Cham were historically friends with Cambodia and Cambodia historically supported their resistance to Vietnam.

PO CEI BREI FLED TO CAMBODIA IN 1795-1796 TO FIND SUPPORT

About the IOC-Campa and Its Mission

IOC Activities

The Kingdom of Cambodia supported Cham Muslim/Hindu FULRO fighters against both north and south Vietnam during the Vetnam war. In fact, the Cham independence leader, the Muslim Les Kosem, was an officer in the royal Cambodian army. Les Kosem fought against the Vietnamese to created a Cham homeland in southern Vietnam, while he fought against the Khmer Rouge as a Cambodian to preserve the Cambodian state. Les created the Front de Liberation de Champa (front for the liberation of Champa) to create a new Champa out of southern Vietnam.

Les Kosem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Front for the Liberation of Oppressed Races - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Cham International Office of Champa (IOC), an anti-Vietnamese Cham organization in America, barely mentions the Khmer Rouge on their website and nearly 99% of their complaints are anti-Vietnam only. The IOC is affiliated with former Cham and montagnard FULRO fighters. The Cham Muslim activist from Vietnam, Musa Porome, also focuses all his attention against the Vietnamese government.

The Cham Muslim/Hindu FULRO fighters fought against both the North and South Vietnamese, and the Khmer Rouge, since the Cham FULRO fighters were loyal to the non-communist Cambodian regime and sought to carve out a Cham homeland out of south Vietnam. FULRO actually continued to fight against the Vietnamese all throughout the Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia until 1992, even while the Khmer Rouge murdered most of FULROs leaders.

The Khmer Rouge hunted down and murdered almost all of FULRO's Cham and Montagnard leaders, even while the FULRO fightest were still battling the Vietnamese. The Khmer Rouge only helped Vietnam through their stupidity. The International Office of Champa notes that even while the Khmer Rouge were attacking FULRO and the Cham, FULRO still fought against the Vietnamese too. China sent some weapons and aid to FULRO during this time.

IOC-Champa

The Ethnography of Vietnam's Central Highlanders: A Historical ... - Oscar Salemink - Google Books

Battle for the Central Highlands: A Special Forces Story - George Dooley - Google Books

Chinese Military Strategy in the Third Indochina War: The Last Maoist War - Edward C. O'Dowd - Google Books

The Vietnam People's Army Under Đổi Mới - Carlyle A. Thayer - Google Books

The Cham officers in FULRO fought against both North and South Vietnam and the Khmer Rouge. Les Kosem battled Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge forces, he died in exile in Malaysia.

From the F.L.M to Fulro (1955-1975)

Post-FULRO Events (1975-2004)

This Muslim Cham journalist from Cambodia, Hassan A Kasem, exposed Vietnam's machinations against Cambodia and debunked Vietnam's image as a liberator and savior from the Khmer Rouge. The entire International Office of Champa organization focuses on Vietnam's violations against Cham, Montagnard, and Khmer people in Vietnam, they don't want to carve a state out of Cambodia because they know they were forced there by Vietnam, they want their homeland back which is in modern day South Vietnam.

Only Muslim Chams have Muslim names like Hassan in Cambodia. Many of the Cham are patriotic Cambodians and resent the Vietnamese puppet regime in Cambodia.

Vietnam's hidden hand in Cambodia's impasse

Some in the West saw Vietnam as a magnanimous liberator in 1979, an occupying army that rescued Cambodia from the radical Khmer Rouge regime's massacre of its own people. But Hanoi's use of force turned a difficult situation to its geopolitical advantage, putting an end to the Khmer Rouge regime's nationalistic stance vis-a-vis Vietnam, including its combative insistence on resolutions to border disputes held over from the French colonial era.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-02-091013.html

IOC-Champa

IOC-Champa

Now, Cham human rights organizations like IOC work together with Khmer Krom and Montagnard organizations against the Vietnamese government

Dân tộc bản địa Việt Nam tại diễn đàn LHQ vào tháng 7-2013

Phái đoàn đấu tranh cho các dân tộc bản địa Viêt Nam (CIP-TVN) đi tham dự hội nghị nhân quyền tại thủ đô Washington lần II

Home

From the F.L.M to Fulro (1955-1975)

It was the Americans who encouraged China and Thailand to support the Khmer Rouge, even while the Khmer Rouge were murdering Chinese, Thai, and Cham people.

Patriots and Tyrants: Ten Asian Leaders - Ross Marlay, Clark D. Neher - Google Books



We should note that all 3 factions - China, Thailand, and the Cham fighters themselves who were part of FULRO, hated Vietnam so much that all 3 of them continued to fight Vietnam even while the Khmer Rouge was conducting its massacres against Chinese, Thai and Chams in Cambodia, FULRO did not pause for one second in fighting against Vietnam even while the Khmer Rouge executed the Montagnard and Cham FULRO leaders

The historical animosity between the Cham and Vietnam outweighed whatever the Khmer Rouge did in the eyes of the Cham FULRO fighters, because of the 1,000 years the historical conflict between the Vietnamese and the Cham and the fact that the reason that there was a Cham community in Cambodia, was that because their ancestors fled to Cambodia from the Vietnamese invasion of their homeland, therefore, they don't seek independence from Cambodia, they only seek it from Vietnam.

During World War 2, the allies sided with Stalin against the Nazis, since Stalin had the largest military force that could be used against the Germans and was right next to the German border (after poland was annexed) even though Stalin was a massive, genocidal war crimibal, this is the same reason why the Cham Muslim/Hindu FULRO fighters, Thailand, and China fought against Vietnam during the war between the Khmer Rouge and Vietnam.

What the Khmer Rouge did, did not mean that the Cham fighters should have given ground to Vietnam, and indeed they didn't. They continued on fighting Vietnam the whole time during the Khmer Rouge war and up until 1992.
 
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After Polpot regime, there're only some terrorists under military aid of China or USA ... But as we see US seems to be the more responsible nation to the force ever receive their aid.

in the early 1980s there was a peak in this second phase of the FULRO insurgency, possibly with active material support from China, who benefited from the conflict as part of its ongoing standoff with Vietnam.[7] Some estimates gave the total number of FULRO troops in this period at 7,000, mostly based in Mondulkiri, and supplied with Chinese armaments via the Khmer Rouge, which was by this point fighting its own guerrilla war in western Cambodia.[8] However by 1986 this aid had ceased, a Khmer Rouge spokesman stating that while the tribesmen were "very, very brave", they had "no support from any leadership" and "no political vision".[8]
Following the cessation of supplies, the bitter guerrilla warfare would however in time reduce FULRO's forces to no more than a few hundred. In 1980 a unit of over 200 fighters was forced to split off and take refuge in Khmer Rouge on the Thai-Cambodian border. In 1985, 212 of these soldiers, under the command of Brigadier General Y-Ghok Niê Krieng and Pierre K'briuh, moved across Cambodia to the Thai border where Lieutenant General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, then Commander of the 2nd Royal Thai Army advised them that the Americans were no longer interested in fighting the Vietnamese. General Chavalit advised them to seek refugee status through UNHCR. Once this was granted they were moved to North Carolina in the U.S.[9]
 
And Cham people still hate Vietnam LOL. I repost all of my links, and btw, go see for yourself, go ask the Chams over at IOC who they hate, Vietnam or Cambodians? Cham fightrers fought against Vietnam even while Khmer Rouge was killing their leadership. Go look at IOC, its all about Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam, they only once mention the Khmer Rouge, be ause its finished- the Khmer Rouge is gone but Vietnam and its puppet regime in Cambodia is still there. The Cham even work with Khmer Krom against the Vietnamese government. Cham people are not fools. They know what Vietnam is doing to Cambodia, this Muslim Cham jounralist named Hassan exposed the Vietnamese government's dirty work in Cambodia.

Vietnam's hidden hand in Cambodia's impasse
who cares of whether the offspring of the terror groups Champa, FULRO, Khmer Rouge and the like like us or not. You can have their love. Keep them.
 
China did attacked Vietnam, but Vietnam had paid back even more by expelling 800,000 Chinese. I think by all standards, China is still in the losing end.

That could be the reason the leaders of both side realize that both countries must move on. Also the current leadership of Vietnam is slightly pro China, just that the PRC are not aware.
 
Chinese ethnic in Vietnam average income higher than Chinese in China mainland ...
 
All of these Chinese are brainwashed to believe that Viet Nam persecuted the ethnic Chinese up till the event of 1979. Prior to the unification in 1975, South Vietnam loser government allowed the ethnic Chinese to live in Viet Nam without taking up Vietnamese citizenship. After the unification in 1975, Viet Nam asked the ethnic Chinese to take Vietnamese citizenship or leave. Many rich Chinese refused to take Viet citizenship and prefered to status quo that they enjoyed prior to 1975. Taking Viet citizenship means you would have to do military service. When war broke out in 1979, ethnic Chinese who still refused to take Viet citizenship were forced to leave, fair and square. Some rich Chinese decided to leave but most stayed and took up Viet citizenship. The ethnic Chinese were "lucky" that they were allowed to leave the country while most Viets were not allowed so. Hence, many Viets claimed themselves as Chinese in order to have a chance to leave as boat people in 1979

The Chinese population in Viet Nam up to 1979 was about 1 millions. If 800k left, how can 200k multiplied to 1.2 millions in 2014? Impossible
 
All of these Chinese are brainwashed to believe that Viet Nam persecuted the ethnic Chinese up till the event of 1979. Prior to the unification in 1975, South Vietnam loser government allowed the ethnic Chinese to live in Viet Nam without taking up Vietnamese citizenship. After the unification in 1975, Viet Nam asked the ethnic Chinese to take Vietnamese citizenship or leave. Many rich Chinese refused to take Viet citizenship and prefered to status quo that they enjoyed prior to 1975. Taking Viet citizenship means you would have to do military service. When war broke out in 1979, ethnic Chinese who still refused to take Viet citizenship were forced to leave, fair and square. Some rich Chinese decided to leave but most stayed and took up Viet citizenship. The ethnic Chinese were "lucky" that they were allowed to leave the country while most Viets were not allowed so. Hence, many Viets claimed themselves as Chinese in order to have a chance to leave as boat people in 1979

The Chinese population in Viet Nam up to 1979 was about 1 millions. If 800k left, how can 200k multiplied to 1.2 millions in 2014? Impossible

My number Chinese expelled may not be accurate. I have seen wild estimation and till now, I have not done any deep research into this topic. I base the estimation on wiki "The number of boat people leaving Vietnam and arriving safely in another country totalled almost 800,000 between 1975 and 1995". Not even considering the Chinese escape from Vietnam by land.

All these expelled are Southern Chinese from Guangzhou, Hainan and Fujian. I really wonder how you guys can differentiate them given that I am not able to tell most Vietnamese are Chinese apart here in Singapore until they speak?

Nevertheless, Vietnam has get even with China, as a lot of these boat people died. As we dig in further, people commit a lot of bad things during that special period of time. Just that your government may inform you guys about the PRC atrocities and not about Vietnam.

The entire SE Asia mainland and East Asia depend on the well being of PRC. When PRC in trouble, everyone will be in trouble.

Its time to move on.

Vietnamese boat people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
My number Chinese expelled may not be accurate. I have seen wild estimation and till now, I have not done any deep research into this topic. I base the estimation on wiki "The number of boat people leaving Vietnam and arriving safely in another country totalled almost 800,000 between 1975 and 1995". Not even considering the Chinese escape from Vietnam by land.

All these expelled are Southern Chinese from Guangzhou, Hainan and Fujian. I really wonder how you guys can differentiate them given that I am not able to tell most Vietnamese are Chinese apart here in Singapore until they speak?

Nevertheless, Vietnam has get even with China, as a lot of these boat people died. As we dig in further, people commit a lot of bad things during that special period of time. Just that your government may inform you guys about the PRC atrocities and not about Vietnam.

The entire SE Asia mainland and East Asia depend on the well being of PRC. When PRC in trouble, everyone will be in trouble.

Its time to move on.

Vietnamese boat people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lux de Veritas ... after defeat South of Vietnam, Democracy Vietnam actually applied some strictly policies to Southern people that's not support them before. The South at the time, several lethal weapon gangter band, whores, non-residental livings ... even armed groups plan to recover the power of Republic of Vietnam. This happen until the end of 1980s ...

Those strict policies should be considered as normal because the high priority at that time is stable the country, and they affected to all, not only ethnic Chinese whose property would be collected apart.

I don't argue the policies totally true or false, but they actually made affect to the society.
But the winners never made a massacre as former government of South Vietnam predicted.

"The Boat People" not imply Chinese ethnic .. but all residents from South Vietnam those don't feel comfortable to stay and do business under the newly-ruled government. Vietnam consider boat people as Vietnamese.

I have an uncle - Vietnamese originated North, moved to South when divide South-North, he married to a Chinese race originated North ( Haiphong ) and moved to Canada after 1975 as so-called boat people. So for Chinese has citizenship and stay several generations in Vietnam. Please don't call them Chinese, but Vietnamese. They and their neighborhood friends even close to each other than to China mainlanders.

Their living condition are far different from Chinese in other countries and Vietnamese in Cambodia under Pol Port regime.
It's China movements in 1979 and the fall of South Vietnam caused they lost their home ... in North and South.
 
Any complain to Khmer Rouge during 1975-1978 by killing Cambodian, even Chinese in mass ?
 
Any complain to Khmer Rouge during 1975-1978 by killing Cambodian, even Chinese in mass ?

I explained already in this post why China, Thailand, and the Cham FULRO disregarded the Khmer Rouge massacres of their people. Because YOU were also an enemy. We can't suddenly turn around and give approval to Vietnam when it was the number one enemy. Imagine if the Allies decided to turn on Stalin while still fighting Nazi Germany in WW2 since Stalin was a genocidal dictator who systematically targeted certain ethnic groups. I compared this to WW2 and Cambodia and Vietnam to the Soviet Union and Germany.

And Cham people still hate Vietnam LOL. I repost all of my links, and btw, go see for yourself, go ask the Chams over at IOC who they hate, Vietnam or Cambodians? Cham fightrers fought against Vietnam even while Khmer Rouge was killing their leadership. Go look at IOC, its all about Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam, they only once mention the Khmer Rouge, be ause its finished- the Khmer Rouge is gone but Vietnam and its puppet regime in Cambodia is still there. The Cham even work with Khmer Krom against the Vietnamese government. Cham people are not fools. They know what Vietnam is doing to Cambodia, this Muslim Cham jounralist named Hassan exposed the Vietnamese government's dirty work in Cambodia.

Vietnam's hidden hand in Cambodia's impasse

Some in the West saw Vietnam as a magnanimous liberator in 1979, an occupying army that rescued Cambodia from the radical Khmer Rouge regime's massacre of its own people. But Hanoi's use of force turned a difficult situation to its geopolitical advantage, putting an end to the Khmer Rouge regime's nationalistic stance vis-a-vis Vietnam, including its combative insistence on resolutions to border disputes held over from the French colonial era.

The Khmer Rouge killed more Chinese Cambodians than any other ethnic minority, over 225,000 Chinese Cambodians were killed by them, along with the Thai, Cham, and other minorities,

The Specter of Genocide: Mass Murder in Historical Perspective - Google Books

Cambodia After the Khmer Rouge: Inside the Politics of Nation Building - Evan Gottesman - Google Books

The Cham's 1,000 year historical grudge with Vietnam, for them, outweighs the Khmer Rouge genocide. I didn't believe it with my own eyes and ears at first, but the Cham antagonism against Vietnam erased whatever bad feelings the with Cambodians that the Khmer Rouge caused, so that all Cham advocacy groups attack Vietnam and barely mentioned the Khmer Rouge.

Some Cham people in America said that they had a problem only with the Khmer Rouge, not the Khmer Cambodians people, while they had a problem with the Vietnamese people.

The reason they generally give is, that the Cham homeland is in southern Vietnam only, and that the Chams in Cambodia are descendants of Cham refugees fleeing the Vietnamese invasion of Champa, when the Cambodian King granted them refuge and allowed them to stay in Cambodia. So the blame for the Cham "exile" in Cambodia is placed on the Vietnamese while the Cham were historically friends with Cambodia and Cambodia historically supported their resistance to Vietnam.

PO CEI BREI FLED TO CAMBODIA IN 1795-1796 TO FIND SUPPORT

About the IOC-Campa and Its Mission

IOC Activities

The Kingdom of Cambodia supported Cham Muslim/Hindu FULRO fighters against both north and south Vietnam during the Vetnam war. In fact, the Cham independence leader, the Muslim Les Kosem, was an officer in the royal Cambodian army. Les Kosem fought against the Vietnamese to created a Cham homeland in southern Vietnam, while he fought against the Khmer Rouge as a Cambodian to preserve the Cambodian state. Les created the Front de Liberation de Champa (front for the liberation of Champa) to create a new Champa out of southern Vietnam.

Les Kosem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Front for the Liberation of Oppressed Races - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Cham International Office of Champa (IOC), an anti-Vietnamese Cham organization in America, barely mentions the Khmer Rouge on their website and nearly 99% of their complaints are anti-Vietnam only. The IOC is affiliated with former Cham and montagnard FULRO fighters. The Cham Muslim activist from Vietnam, Musa Porome, also focuses all his attention against the Vietnamese government.

The Cham Muslim/Hindu FULRO fighters fought against both the North and South Vietnamese, and the Khmer Rouge, since the Cham FULRO fighters were loyal to the non-communist Cambodian regime and sought to carve out a Cham homeland out of south Vietnam. FULRO actually continued to fight against the Vietnamese all throughout the Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia until 1992, even while the Khmer Rouge murdered most of FULROs leaders.

The Khmer Rouge hunted down and murdered almost all of FULRO's Cham and Montagnard leaders, even while the FULRO fightest were still battling the Vietnamese. The Khmer Rouge only helped Vietnam through their stupidity. The International Office of Champa notes that even while the Khmer Rouge were attacking FULRO and the Cham, FULRO still fought against the Vietnamese too. China sent some weapons and aid to FULRO during this time.

IOC-Champa

The Ethnography of Vietnam's Central Highlanders: A Historical ... - Oscar Salemink - Google Books

Battle for the Central Highlands: A Special Forces Story - George Dooley - Google Books

Chinese Military Strategy in the Third Indochina War: The Last Maoist War - Edward C. O'Dowd - Google Books

The Vietnam People's Army Under Đổi Mới - Carlyle A. Thayer - Google Books

The Cham officers in FULRO fought against both North and South Vietnam and the Khmer Rouge. Les Kosem battled Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge forces, he died in exile in Malaysia.

From the F.L.M to Fulro (1955-1975)

Post-FULRO Events (1975-2004)

This Muslim Cham journalist from Cambodia, Hassan A Kasem, exposed Vietnam's machinations against Cambodia and debunked Vietnam's image as a liberator and savior from the Khmer Rouge. The entire International Office of Champa organization focuses on Vietnam's violations against Cham, Montagnard, and Khmer people in Vietnam, they don't want to carve a state out of Cambodia because they know they were forced there by Vietnam, they want their homeland back which is in modern day South Vietnam.

Only Muslim Chams have Muslim names like Hassan in Cambodia. Many of the Cham are patriotic Cambodians and resent the Vietnamese puppet regime in Cambodia.

Vietnam's hidden hand in Cambodia's impasse

Some in the West saw Vietnam as a magnanimous liberator in 1979, an occupying army that rescued Cambodia from the radical Khmer Rouge regime's massacre of its own people. But Hanoi's use of force turned a difficult situation to its geopolitical advantage, putting an end to the Khmer Rouge regime's nationalistic stance vis-a-vis Vietnam, including its combative insistence on resolutions to border disputes held over from the French colonial era.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-02-091013.html

IOC-Champa

IOC-Champa

Now, Cham human rights organizations like IOC work together with Khmer Krom and Montagnard organizations against the Vietnamese government

Dân tộc bản địa Việt Nam tại diễn đàn LHQ vào tháng 7-2013

Phái đoàn đấu tranh cho các dân tộc bản địa Viêt Nam (CIP-TVN) đi tham dự hội nghị nhân quyền tại thủ đô Washington lần II

Home

From the F.L.M to Fulro (1955-1975)

It was the Americans who encouraged China and Thailand to support the Khmer Rouge, even while the Khmer Rouge were murdering Chinese, Thai, and Cham people.

Patriots and Tyrants: Ten Asian Leaders - Ross Marlay, Clark D. Neher - Google Books



We should note that all 3 factions - China, Thailand, and the Cham fighters themselves who were part of FULRO, hated Vietnam so much that all 3 of them continued to fight Vietnam even while the Khmer Rouge was conducting its massacres against Chinese, Thai and Chams in Cambodia, FULRO did not pause for one second in fighting against Vietnam even while the Khmer Rouge executed the Montagnard and Cham FULRO leaders

The historical animosity between the Cham and Vietnam outweighed whatever the Khmer Rouge did in the eyes of the Cham FULRO fighters, because of the 1,000 years the historical conflict between the Vietnamese and the Cham and the fact that the reason that there was a Cham community in Cambodia, was that because their ancestors fled to Cambodia from the Vietnamese invasion of their homeland, therefore, they don't seek independence from Cambodia, they only seek it from Vietnam.

During World War 2, the allies sided with Stalin against the Nazis, since Stalin had the largest military force that could be used against the Germans and was right next to the German border (after poland was annexed) even though Stalin was a massive, genocidal war crimibal, this is the same reason why the Cham Muslim/Hindu FULRO fighters, Thailand, and China fought against Vietnam during the war between the Khmer Rouge and Vietnam.

What the Khmer Rouge did, did not mean that the Cham fighters should have given ground to Vietnam, and indeed they didn't. They continued on fighting Vietnam the whole time during the Khmer Rouge war and up until 1992.
 
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I explained already in this post why China, Thailand, and the Cham FULRO disregarded the Khmer Rouge massacres of their people. Because YOU were also an enemy.
We can't suddenly turn around and give approval to Vietnam when it was the number one enemy. Imagine if the Allies decided to turn on Stalin while still fighting Nazi Germany in WW2 since Stalin was a genocidal dictator who systematically targeted certain ethnic groups. I compared this to WW2 and Cambodia and Vietnam to the Soviet Union and Germany.
hm...so China, Thailand, Champa terrorists and all other supporters disregarded the killing of Khmer Rouge, just because they hated Vietnam more? what a logic of your people. the world is crazy. you are crazy to compare Vietnam with Germany.

anyway, the mad Khmer Rouge killed 20,000 Vietnamese descents and destroyed several Vietnamese border towns. For their crimes, we killed 200,000 of them, made the rest to slaves and looted all of their properties. They started it, so they deserved it.
 
Cocktails with Khmer Rouge killers
By Angus MacSwan
July 30, 2010
Cocktails with Khmer Rouge killers | Global News Journal

MacSwan4.jpg
By Angus MacSwan

The sentencing of Khmer Rouge torturer Kaing Guek Eav this week and the forthcoming trial of former leader Khieu Samphan by a United Nations-backed court has brought renewed attention to their murderous rule of Cambodia in the 1970s — and a certain amount of satisfaction in the “international community” for its role in seeing justice done.

But there was a time when you could meet Khmer Rouge officials at cocktail parties in Phnom Penh, with the drinks provided by the United Nations.

It was one consequence of a Faustian pact between the Khmer Rouge and the United States, Britain and other countries following the Pol Pot regime’s overthrow by Vietnamese troops in 1979.
The relationship illustrates the sometimes bizarre nature of Cold War politics and is one that today’s governments probably hope is forgotten.

I found myself next to Khieu Samphan, Pol Pot’s right hand man, at a party at the U.N. mission’s headquarters in Phnom Penh at the end of 1991. Standing behind him was Son Sen, who had run the Khmer Rouge’s torture apparatus during their “Killing Fields” rule from 1975-79, in which at least 1.5 million Cambodians had died.

They had just returned to Phnom Penh after years in jungle camps and friendly foreign capitals and were in the decrepit city as the representatitves of the Party of Democratic Kampuchea — as they prefered to be known — in a new national council set up under a peace accord aimed at ending decades of war.

How had the Khmer Rouge survived and prospered in the decade since their reign of terror was ended by the Vietnamese invasion?
Their main supporter was China — an enemy of both Vietnam and its backer the Soviet Union despite their shared communist beliefs. The United States was still smarting from its defeat in the Vietnam War and saw China as an indispensable regional ally with a bright future.

Thus a coalition government was formed, dominated by the Khmer Rouge and including two non-communist factions, even though they controlled hardly any territory other than border enclaves. Its nominal head was Prince Norodom Sihanouk, who actually spent most of his time in North Korea of all places, but despite this fig leaf the military muscle in the bush war was provided by the Khmer Rouge.

Throughout the 1980s, this body held Cambodia’s seat in the United Nations, supported by the United States, Britain and other European nations, China and pro-Western Asian countries. The Vietnamese-backed government — which included Khmer Rouge defectors — was recognised only by the Soviet bloc.

Denied international aid and trade, Phom Penh was one of the most forlorn places on earth as war raged in the Cambodian countryside.
Thailand played a crucial role in supporting the coalition and Thai officials got rich through timber and gems deals with the Khmer Rouge based in the border enclaves.
U.S. officials in Bangkok and Washington would play a game of smoke-and-mirrors when asked about Washington’s support for an alliance spearheaded by some of the 20th Century’s worst mass murderers.

Arms and other other aid only went to the non-communist groups, they said. The Khmer Rouge had changed and was now genuinely popular in some areas, they ventured. While the film “The Killing Fields” made many people aware of the horrors of Khmer Rouge rule, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher told a British children’s TV show in 1988 “There’s a much, much reasonable grouping within that title, Khmer Rouge…who will have to play some part in the future
government.”
The British elite military unit the SAS were later revealed to have trained their fighters.

The guerrilla factions also ran the vast refugee camps on the Thai border, so the Khmer Rouge were able to keep tens of thousands of people in their grip with generous helpings of United Nations aid. With the withdrawal of Vietnamese troops from Cambodia in 1989 and the collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, a peace agreement was painstakingly hammered out.

All four parties joined the national council pending elections and a huge U.N. peacekeeping mission swept into the country.And so the Khmer Rouge came back to Phnom Penh.

Khieu Samphan was run out of town by an angry crowd at his first attempt to return in October 1991. A few months later, though he was back and looking relaxed.At the U.N. party, he was dressed in a neatly-pressed grey safari suit and looked well-manicured — quite different to the black pyjamasand checkered scarves of the iconic Khmer Rouge image. After a few pleasantaries, I asked him about their bloody rule. Nonplussed, he replied almost by rote that yes, some mistakes were made but that most of the accusations were just
propaganda. Cambodia’s real problem was Vietnam’s plan to annex
the country, he said with a smile.
With Son Sen lurking sinisterly in the background, I thought the conversation had probably run its course.

This accommodation with killers threw up many other surreal situations. A few months after the cocktail party encounter, I was in the town of Kompong Thom when Indonesian peacekeepers arrived to police the area. For some reason, they sang the old British army song “It’s a Long Way to Tipperary” as they marched down the street.

A Khmer Rouge general, Men Ron, stood by the roadside, smiling as if this was the jolliest knees-up this side of the Emerald Isle. That night, he dined at a lakeside restaurant with a British envoy and an Australian general.
The next day, refugees were fleeing down the highway outside the city from Khmer Rouge attacks to the north.

An election to bring peace and democracy to Cambodia was held in 1993. The Khmer Rouge boycotted it and went back to war, but without the backing they previously enjoyed, they dwindled.
Son Sen was killed in 1997 in an internal power struggle and Pol Pot died the next year in mysterious circumstances. Khieu Samphan was arrested in 2007 and the next year was charged in court with crimes against humanity and war crimes.

I’ve not been back to Phnom Penh since 1993 but I’m told its a very different place, with bistros, night clubs and fast cars for the new rich elite. Its a favourite destination for Western youths on gap years.
The angy reaction from ordinary Cambodians to what they saw a light sentence for Kaing Guek Eav showed many of them still want atonement for the past. In some quarters though, the past will probably remain a closed chapter.

------------------------------------------------

Butcher of Cambodia set to expose Thatcher's role
Butcher of Cambodia set to expose Thatcher's role | World news | The Observer


Ta Mok, one of Pol Pot's genocidal henchman, who faces trial, tells Jason Burke in Phnom Penh he will expose the West's part in training the Khmer Rouge
In a small, dark, heavily guarded cell in Phnom Penh's main military prison sits a man of 74, wizened, white-haired, one-legged. He is in good health and surprisingly high spirits, given his grim future and grimmer past.
He is Ta Mok, also known as the Butcher or Chhit Chouen - possibly the cruellest and most violent of the Khmer Rouge commanders who turned Cambodia's green countryside into the killing fields.

The Prime Minister of Cambodia, Hun Sen, has hopes to try Ta Mok for his crimes next month. Many in his shattered country are happy at the prospect. Others, including many of the political leadership and bureaucracy, fear his testimony will unveil their own roles during the time of Pol Pot's genocide.

The unease is not restricted to the small, desperately poor, swampy country of 10 million that is modern Cambodia. For when Ta Mok takes the stand, his lawyers promise, no one will be spared - least of all the Western leaders who, they say, supported the Khmer Rouge despite the Maoist extremists' atrocities being widely known.

The most damaging element, for Britain at least, of Ta Mok's court appearance will be new evidence about how British troops and diplomats helped the Khmer Rouge in their fight for power.

Contacted in his prison cell through an intermediary last week, he confirmed to The Observer that the extent to which London and Washington helped the Khmer Rouge in their fight to control Cambodia would be revealed during his trial. The evidence will contradict statements made by Margaret Thatcher's Government - which authorised the operation at the time.

Ta Mok's lawyer, Benson Samay, said the court would hear details of how, between 1985 and 1989, the Special Air Service (SAS) ran a series of training camps for Khmer Rouge allies in Thailand close to the Cambodian border and created a 'sabotage battalion' of 250 experts in explosives and ambushes. Intelligence experts in Singapore also ran training courses, Samay said.

To allow Ministers to deny helping the Khmer Rouge, the SAS was ordered to train only soldiers loyal to the ousted Prince Norodom Sihanouk, and the liberal democrat former Prime Minister, Son Sann, who were fighting alongside Pol Pot's Communists. However, Samay said the court would be told the Khmer Rouge benefited substantially from the British operation.

'All these groups were fighting together - but the Khmer Rouge were in charge. They profited from any help to the others. If they had won the war outright, then Pol Pot would have been back in charge,' Samay said.

The Khmer Rouge and their allies were fighting against the Vietnamese-backed puppet regime Hanoi had installed after ousting Pol Pot's extremist Communists and exposing the horrors of the killing fields.

In a classic piece of Cold War realpolitik, Britain - prompted by the Americans - appears to have given military assistance to the Khmer Rouge-led coalition, despite knowing of Pol Pot's atrocities, in an attempt to limit the power of the Soviet-backed Vietnamese.

'Thatcher, Reagan, Kissinger - they should all be on trial along with Ta Mok,' Samay said last week. He said the court would also hear that humanitarian supplies for Cambodian refugees in Thailand were diverted to the Khmer Rouge with, he claims, the knowledge of the Americans and the British. The court would also hear, he said, how the diplomatic support offered by London and Washington to the coalition led by the Khmer Rouge was 'a great help and morale booster' for Pol Pot's troops. The coalition retained the Cambodian United Nations seat throughout the Eighties.

Ta Mok's journey from jungle hideout to power to hideout and eventually to prison last May is a powerful symbol of the political tides that have washed over Cambodia in the past decades. In April it will be 25 years since Pol Pot's Chinese-backed Maoist revolutionaries defeated a weak pro-US government and entered Phnom Penh. They themselves were ousted by the Soviet-backed Vietnamese four years later and for 15 years a vicious civil war - fuelled by Cold War politics - racked the country.

The trial of Ta Mok and his Khmer Rouge colleague Kaing KhekIev (nicknamed 'Deuch') - who ran the regime's most notorious torture centre - is a litmus test for this deeply scarred nation. Arguments over the format of proceedings have yet to be resolved - the United Nations and human rights groups fear the trial will be used by the government for political ends or be a sham, or both. But it seems likely it will go ahead nevertheless. Few feel, however, that anyone will be pleased by the outcome.

Not far from the prison where its former commander is being held, the Tuol Sleng torture centre still stands. Its iron beds, manacles and electric cables are intact, though tourists and groups of school children now walk wide-eyed through its cells.

Overlooking the rusting barbed wire are the garish villas of the nouveaux riches who have successfully exploited Cambodia's recent shift towards a new, hugely corrupt, free-market economy. Outside its gates loiter half a dozen beggars - dirty children and disabled victims of the mines that still litter Cambodia's countryside - hoping to beg a few riels (Cambodia's virtually worthless currency) from wealthy farang (tourists).

They know what should happen to Pol Pot's henchmen. 'They should all be punished,' said Pheach Yui, 35, who lost his leg to a mine while fighting against the Khmer Rouge 12 years ago. 'They should all be rounded up and judged and punished for their sins. They should be in jail until they die.'

Yui is likely to be disappointed. There are thought to be 50,000 former Khmer Rouge fighters in government positions. At least five are Cabinet Ministers. Others have been effectively pardoned and live well. They include Ieng Sary, the Khmer Rouge number three and Pol Pot's brother-in-law, Nuon Chea, who was known as 'Brother Number Two' and Khieu Samphan, the movement's one-time Prime Minister.

Even Ta Mok says that they should face punishment. 'I know about only a fraction of what happened,' he told The Observer through an intermediary. 'You should ask Ieng Sary and the others too.' Several key Khmer Rouge commanders are gen erals in the Cambodian army and look untouchable. Even the Prime Minister himself was a Khmer Rouge cadre until being recruited by the Vietnamese.

Ta Mok and 'Deuch' may end up being the only senior Khmer Rouge brought to justice for their crimes. Pol Pot, the architect of the the massacres, died in 1998 and no one else has been arrested or is likely to be.

Though some argue that 'national reconciliation' means forgetting the past, to many the failure to bring the Khmer Rouge killers to justice merely emphasises the cheapness of human life in Cambodia today.

The psychological scars of genocide and war are obvious everywhere. The smallest incident can provoke extreme violence. The crime columns in the press are almost grotesque: three men blow themselves, and a café, to bits playing Russian roulette with an anti-tank mine; a man is murdered in a row over whether the millennium bug is a hoax; a syphilitic farmer kills five children and drinks their blood in the hope of being cured; a chess game ends with one dead, two badly injured. Arguments over land regularly lead to murder.

Attacks with acid have become more common. Last month a government official's wife hideously burnt her husband's mistress by pouring five litres of nitric acid over her while bodyguards held the screaming woman down. Such 'crimes of jealousy' are increasing. Last summer Cambodia's most famous actress was shot dead in the street. The press reported that her murderers had been hired by the wife of the Prime Minister - her alleged lover.

'There is an ingrained culture of might is right,' said one Western diplomat. 'It needs very little to spark off appalling violence.' Armed robbery is common and, as the police are corrupt and ineffectual, people take the law into their own hands. Vigilante killings are rou tine, with even novice monks and art students beating suspected robbers to death. The customs and the military, often with the co-operation of senior members of the government, collude in massive smuggling - of beer, drugs, people, tropical hardwood and the country's archaeological heritage.

Cambodia has lost half its forests in the past 30 years, and the trees are still falling fast. Last year soldiers used heavy equipment to break up 30 tonnes of stone carvings from 1,000-year-old archaeological sites before loading them into army trucks and driving them to Thailand to sell to dealers with rich Western clients. The military have even been reported to have been extorting 'protection money' from those trying to conserve Angkor Wat - Cambodia's world-famous jungle temple complex.

The level of development is appallingly low. Average life expectancy is 52, one in five children dies before reaching the age of five, more than a third of the population live below the poverty line and half the children show the effects of malnutrition. Aids killed 6,000 people last year. The elite's exclusive golf course, on the outskirts of Phomh Penh, charges $20,000 (£12,000) for membership, 80 times the average income.

Even the international community's well-meaning interventions often come unstuck. The UN peacekeeping operation hugely boosted Aids in the country and created a parallel dollar economy. A senior French aid worker was reported to be pimping the orphans in his care.

Recently the partly British-funded Cambodian Mine Action Centre was found to have been clearing land for former Khmer Rouge warlords. They included Chhouk Rin - the commander who, in 1994, kidnapped and killed three Western tourists including a Briton.

Khieu Phen is, like Ta Mok, an old man. He was 30 when the Khmer Rouge came to power and lost his brothers, sisters and brother-in-law in the massacres. He survived the killing fields - where he was forced to work 'day and night' and watched 'sons forced to murder their fathers' - by working harder than everyone else. Now he rides a scooter around Phnom Penh hoping to pick up a passenger and earn enough for a bowl of noodles.

'Sometimes I think we are cursed,' he said. 'Everybody takes from this country. So few people give anything. Everybody betrays us in the end.'
 

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