Six killed in first drone strike after spy chief meeting

[Ahmad]

There are all kinds of people in the Tribal Areas. There are many supporters of the Pakistani regime, but there are also many people/tribals who feel they are 'Afghans', & want to help out their brothers on the other side of the border. That doesn't make them anti-Pakistan, but when they see the Pakistani establishment approving US drone strikes against them, they feel betrayed by the Pakistani establishment. Drone attacks by the US forces will only further exacerbate the internal security of Pakistan. The Pakistan Army itself needs to go inside these Tribal Areas & attack these anti-state extremist elements in the FATA. While the drone strikes kill a few terrorist leaders, they kill a lot of civilians, & this results in more terrorists being created than destroyed. That is not good enough for Pakistan. Even if there is some kind of way that ensures ONLY terrorists are killed in the tribal areas, there will still be high anti-American & anti-Pakistan establishment feelings rising in these areas.

So drones are no solution at all. However, the anti-state extremist elements in the FATA regions must be tackled. Most of the people are 'on the fence' in the fight between the terrorists & the Pakistan Army/US. With drone strikes, the common people get pushed onto the side of the terrorists against the Pakistani establishment. They feel betrayed by the Pakistani establishment & think it's a pawn of the US. This was the reason why the TTP was formed in the first place.

if pa goes after terrorists in FATA, there is no way that the civilians not to get killed.

 

[53fd]

if pa goes after terrorists in FATA, there is no way that the civilians not to get killed.

Not necessarily. The Pakistan Army can choose to arm Tribal Lashkars to fight against terrorist groups, & they would be more than willing to do so. Many of the people in the Tribal regions hate the terrorist groups & feel hostage to them, but when drones come & indiscriminately kill these civilians (along with a few terrorists), then people tend to side with the terrorists than with the Pakistani establishment. There is also a Shia/moderate Sunni vs extremist Sunni struggle going on in the Kurram & Orakzai agencies. The extremist groups have been given a free pass to attack innocent people in these agencies, & they must be tackled with. Empower the local people there, & you will see the trust in the Pakistani establishment being regained again. Also, a few civilians being killed is better than the indiscriminate killing of civilians through drone strikes (or the mere perception of it). The mere perception that drones indiscriminately kill civilians increases anti-American & anti-Pakistan establishment sentiments of the common man all over the country, so I see these efforts as counterproductive. The Pakistani establishment needs to regain the trust of its people again, & drones are the last way to do that.

 

[alphamale]

After this drone attack pakistanis are cursing their army. but they should understand that P.A has no choice at all. P.A or govt can't stop drone attacks. what pakistanis want from P.A against U.S will only lead them to more chaos. let assume if P.A tell U.S to stop drone attacks, what u think U.S will?? no never & if in return P.A acts aggressively against U.S or shot down drones then we all know what U.S can do. only sol is that P.A itself start operations in troubled areas & show U.S that they are working on it & hence no need of drone attacks.

 

[mehru]

if pa goes after terrorists in FATA, there is no way that the civilians not to get killed.

Casualties are imminent in any kind of war but atleast the casualty rate will be reduced to a much bigger extent. Don't know what PA is thinking. If they are fearing a backlash then we are already facing weekly bomb attacks, how much worse it could get? They should go for it straight away. In this way they could save rest of tribals from becoming terrorists.

 

[Ahmad]

Not necessarily. The Pakistan Army can choose to arm Tribal Lashkars to fight against terrorist groups, & they would be more than willing to do so. Many of the people in the Tribal regions hate the terrorist groups & feel hostage to them, but when drones come & indiscriminately kill these civilians (along with a few terrorists), then people tend to side with the terrorists than with the Pakistani establishment. There is also a Shia/moderate Sunni vs extremist Sunni struggle going on in the Kurram & Orakzai agencies. The extremist groups have been given a free pass to attack innocent people in these agencies, & they must be tackled with. Empower the local people there, & you will see the trust in the Pakistani establishment being regained again. Also, a few civilians being killed is better than the indiscriminate killing of civilians through drone strikes (or the mere perception of it). The mere perception that drones indiscriminately kill civilians increases anti-American & anti-Pakistan establishment sentiments in the common man of Pakistan from all parts of the country, so I see these efforts as counterproductive. The Pakistani establishment needs to regain the trust of its people again, & drones are the last way to do that.

that will be like encouraging an unending civil war in FATA, the lashkars have support and so do the Taliban. as you rightly mentioned, the shia/suni element will also add more to that civil war.

 

[53fd]

The problem is that the US is getting completely out of control, & there is no way the Pakistani establishment can stop that. They think that killing every person in the Tribal regions will solve the problem of Afghanistan, it will not. This indiscriminate killing will only further exacerbate the internal situation of Afghanistan, Pakistan & also the US. I can see the US getting completely destroyed (economically & politically) if it keeps going on like this. But the problem is, the US is too headstrong right now, & nothing will convince them that their actions are counter-productive for everyone involved.

The best way to tackle with this situation is to keep exposing the US activities internationally, condemning air strikes, try to leverage (the way they used the Raymond Davis case) an 'advantage' over the US in the form of 'negotiations'. The US is very headstrong right now, it is hell bent on destroying itself along with Afghanistan & Pakistan. It's acting like a crazed killer, & its very hard to stop a crazed killer. It is hell bent on 'winning', but it does not realize that its version of 'winning' involves the complete destruction of the US, Afghanistan & Pakistan. Which is why Pakistan cannot afford the US to win. I can see the US suffer a 'similar' fate as the Soviets did the longer this war goes on.

 

[mehru]

i think its there free choice and pakistan must be a free country, if we want to change them we should not drone them or send army there, we should talk to them and change their opinions, they were not danger before america came to afghanistan in the name of osama

if we cant handle them, then they must be given free choice to join afghanistan at will, if you seem they are creating trouble for us, simple.., fata region has more closer history with afghanistan then it can even be with punjab and sindh, they solely joined because they expected a good gesture from pakistanis

They are not a danger even now. They have committed mistakes and state should be blamed for that too. We will deal with their way of life later on. First we should ensure peace there.

 

[53fd]

that will be like encouraging an unending civil war in FATA, the lashkars have support and so do the Taliban. as you rightly mentioned, the shia/suni element will also add more to that civil war.

There is already a civil war going on my friend. And its not a Shia/Sunni element, its a Shia/regular Sunni vs extremist Sunni fight going on in some of the tribal regions. The Shias & Sunnis had been living peacefully in those regions for hundreds of years. Shias don't stick out like sore thumbs there, they are perfectly integrated with the local, regular Sunni brothers in the region. The terrorists stick out though, for obvious reasons. Most of the tribal people are sick & tired of the terrorists, but they are more sick & tired of the continuous drone strikes that destroy their houses & kill their children & families. The best solution is, limit the drone attacks that indiscriminately kill innocent civilians, focus on rooting out the anti-state extremist elements by sending the Pakistani Army in there, & empowering the local lashkr's to support them. The Lashkr's will be more than happy to fight the Taliban.

 

[Ahmad]

The problem is that the US is getting completely out of control, & there is no way the Pakistani establishment can stop that. They think that killing every person in the Tribal regions will solve the problem of Afghanistan, it will not. This indiscriminate killing will only further exacerbate the internal situation of Afghanistan, Pakistan & also the US. I can see the US getting completely destroyed (economically & politically) if it keeps going on like this. But the problem is, the US is too headstrong right now, & nothing will convince them that their actions are counter-productive.

The best way to tackle with this situation is to keep exposing the US activities internationally, condemn air strikes, try to leverage (the way they used the Raymond Davis case) an 'advantage' over the US in 'negotiations'. The US is very headstrong right now, it is hell bent on destroying itself along with Afghanistan & Pakistan. It's acting like a crazed killer, & its very hard to stop a crazed killer. It is hell bent on 'winning', but it does not realize that its version of 'winning' involves the complete destruction of the US, Afghanistan & Pakistan. I can see the US suffer a 'similar' fate as the Soviets did the longer this war goes on.

no matter what we say, the fact is that these drones attacks are carried out by both pakistan and americans. pakistan provide ground intelligence and the americans fire the drones. Drones without ground intelligence will be nothing, if we complain about civilian casualties, then there is a problem with intelligence being provided.

 

[Mujeeb47]

Salam guys.
FATA people are always with Pakistan but mostly terrorists are killed in drone attacks.

 

[Ahmad]

There is already a civil war going on my friend. And its not a Shia/Sunni element, its a Shia/regular Sunni vs extremist Sunni fight going on in some of the tribal regions. The Shias & Sunnis had been living peacefully in those regions for hundreds of years. Most of the tribal people are sick & tired of the terrorists, but they are more sick & tired of the continuous drone strikes that destroy their houses & kill their children & families. The best solution is, limit the drone attacks that indiscriminately kill innocent civilians, focus on rooting out the anti-state extremist elements by sending the Pakistani Army in there, & empowering the local lashkr's to support them. The Lashkr's will be more than happy to fight the Taliban.

shia and sunni is only one element of it, not the whole picture.

 

[Luftwaffe]

And the Pukhtun elements who suggest Afghans are their brothers hence they follow the code of Pukhtunwali and got to Afghanistan to fight NATO well u aint gonna get sweets in return.America also follows the code of DroneWali.Pakistanis chose to get bombed the day they decided it was time kill NATO In Afghanistan.Poor guys thought they could defeat US.Pakistan has no advantage of being in Afghan conflict.Just close and seal the border and f@uck the afghans.Any Pukhtun who cries about Afghan being their brother should be killed.These idiots have their own province which is so backward now wants to make the country go down the drain along with Afghanistan.I am really surprised to see so much hatred against Armed Forces here.Not thinking even for a second that fighting US is not feasible for us.This is a diplomatic issue and US is too big of a power.Today we shot down their drone tomorrow they send drone with F22.What will you do?We obviously need to get out of Afghanistan to solve this issue.

Your need anger management and a point and click correction, Pakistani Pukhtoons or a common and educated Pakistani Pukhtoons are not in the mode of "brother wali with people on the other side of the border in majority". So in clear words I am going to correct you the most suffered are Pakistanis in KPK. Those who talk about brotherwali are Govt and backwards mind set villagers in Tribals even they are divided at it, even villages that are outside tribal belt don't call them brotherwali. If you want to finger point point it first at the Govts past and present starting off with zia-ul-haq who invited "them" and today we're having all this trouble for the past 30 years...

You're gravely mistaken with wrong perception about every punktoon. Out of context but did you not vote for a sindhi and punjabi Govts and time and again because of them you and everyone else is having a much more humiliation on the international and national level why subject Pathans?

Pak Army has and is doing everything to clean up all this mess it could take time, we're is the same mode Sri-Lanka was, we'll eventually come out of it, The problem is Pakistan Army has to clarify Govt and push pressurize them to send back afghan refugees honorably back to afghanistan so the promises of the west for building afghanistan can take place rapidly. Pak Army will have many difficulties, it is a proof that many of elements from with-in afghan population in Pakistan for the $$ are taking active participation to destabilize Pakistan. It is time US and NATO take the charge to takecare of these 5 million and over afghans.

 

[mehru]

The problem is that the US is getting completely out of control, & there is no way the Pakistani establishment can stop that. They think that killing every person in the Tribal regions will solve the problem of Afghanistan, it will not. This indiscriminate killing will only further exacerbate the internal situation of Afghanistan, Pakistan & also the US. I can see the US getting completely destroyed (economically & politically) if it keeps going on like this. But the problem is, the US is too headstrong right now, & nothing will convince them that their actions are counter-productive.

The best way to tackle with this situation is to keep exposing the US activities internationally, condemning air strikes, try to leverage (the way they used the Raymond Davis case) an 'advantage' over the US in 'negotiations'. The US is very headstrong right now, it is hell bent on destroying itself along with Afghanistan & Pakistan. It's acting like a crazed killer, & its very hard to stop a crazed killer. It is hell bent on 'winning', but it does not realize that its version of 'winning' involves the complete destruction of the US, Afghanistan & Pakistan. Which is why Pakistan cannot afford the US to win. I can see the US suffer a 'similar' fate as the Soviets did the longer this war goes on.

Yup that's what it looks like. I think that the talks have failed between CIA and ISI. ISI should show some anger otherwise US will not stop at this.

 

[Mujeeb47]

Guys and girls, this situation will continue unless if USA leaves the region.

 

[Mujeeb47]

@ mehru
USA will continue, they dont care much about what ISI thinks. Bitter truth