Sikh and Hindu officers usher in a new era in Pakistani Army

[Comet]

Well Pakistan is loosing its meaning. It was suppose to be an Islamic State where non-Muslims would be allowed to live. But an Islamic state must have Muslim machinery( Army, Government etc)

 

[Vinod2070]

Well Pakistan is loosing its meaning. It was suppose to be an Islamic State where non-Muslims would be allowed to live. But an Islamic state must have Muslim machinery( Army, Government etc)

Mr. Jinnah obviously did not think so.

What would be the rights of the non-Muslims in such a state?

And would you be happy if the same rights were conferred on Muslims in the non Islamic states?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

You must be the smartest person on this thread, Jana. It's pretty obvious M1a2 is not a Pakistani, but is trying to conform to the stereotype that certain countries would like to have of Pakistan. And you're the only one to have spotted it!

So all embarrassing and ridiculous posts that put Pakistan in a bad light is the handiwork of non Pakistanis under assumed Pakistani identity?

Well, if that be the case, then there are too many of them around.

Are you suggesting that the Moderators do not know their job?

umairp states:
Well Pakistan is loosing its meaning. It was suppose to be an Islamic State where non-Muslims would be allowed to live. But an Islamic state must have Muslim machinery( Army, Government etc)

Is he also an imposter?

What a blissful state of living in denial!

What does Jinnah state in his address to the Constituent Assembly? I am sure Jinnah knew better than you all when he got for you what is Pakistan. Or does Umairp and his ilk know better?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Mr Jinnah stated

"You will no doubt agree with me that the first duty of a government is to maintain law and order, so that the life, property and religious beliefs of its subjects are fully protected by the State......

I cannot emphasize it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community, because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on, and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis and so on, will vanish.......

Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State........

Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State......."



I don't find any of the sentiments expressed by Umraip or M1 anywhere in Mr Jinnah's speech. In fact, it is totally au contraire to what Umraip and M1 has stated.

It is so unfortunate that there are people who do not know their own antecedents and yet comment so authoritatively!!

 

[Neo]

IS IT PAKITAN ARMY ? IS THIS MUSLIM PAKISTAI ARMY ? ARE THESE "THE SOLIDERS OF ALLAH" ? THESE SOLIDERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEFENCE OF PAKISTAN TO SAYING THIS " ALLAH-u-AKBAR " .ABSOLUTEY ANSWER IS "NO". THIS IS NOT THAT PAKISTANI ARMY WHICH WAS IN 1965 & 1971. " OHH ALLAH PLEASE HELP US " . WE ARE NOT GOING TO RIGHT WAY WE ARE GOING TO SINCK THE PAKISTAN. " ALLAH ! HELP US " PLEASE HELP US....................... ALLAH-u-AKBAR ! ! !

Oh my god, another internet Mullah!

Pakistan is home to almost 5 million non muslims, they have equal right to love, claim and defend their country.

May Allah indeed help us to eliminate the curse of "jahalat" and "imtiyaziat".

 

[Neo]

I am not against them but I am not with these sort of Pakistani Army.We need pure Muslim Army.Not a kind of Turkish Army.We must need loyal Muslim Army.

Are you claiming that non muslims will not be loyal to the country?

 

[Neo]

The love of the nation has nothing to do with the religion of the nation/people. Modern equipment, training, tactics, strategy, and politics is what makes best fighting in this world in current era.

Well said webby, I second that.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well Pakistan is loosing its meaning. It was suppose to be an Islamic State where non-Muslims would be allowed to live. But an Islamic state must have Muslim machinery( Army, Government etc)

And how are "non-Muslims" supposed to live in pakistan if they cannot work in the government or serve in the Armed forces?

Is this not discrimination and a reduction to second class status? If you cannot trust them to work in the government or serve in the Army then they are not Pakistani!

We might as well kick them out of the country then, and how does that jive with the Quran?

 

[Comet]

Well totally miss interrupted post.
Well can you tell me that why it is in constitution that President should be Muslim?
Because he is going to be the head of an Islamic state.
If Pakistan was to be equal to all of religions and india was to be the same then why India and Pakistan? Why not a single country? My friends Pakistan was created for Muslims but it is allowed that non-Muslims can also live here and do their practices.

And for the question how come they live in a state where they have no right or in other words no political voice?
Well non-Muslims are not allowed to be the head but they can represent themselves in the national assembly. And its not the assembly or court that protects their ( non-Muslims ) rights but the Quran itself protect.

If Pakistan is to be a secular state than whats the difference between India and Pakistan. Muslims struggled and died for Pakistan's Creation. And they posses the right to have a country solely for themselves yet we have never had any problems with the non-Muslims infect Sikhs were offered to be with us.
Hope you got the point

 

[Flintlock]

^^^^Aha! This is exactly the point I was making a couple of months back.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well totally miss interrupted post.
Well can you tell me that why it is in constitution that President should be Muslim?
Because he is going to be the head of an Islamic state.
If Pakistan was to be equal to all of religions and india was to be the same then why India and Pakistan? Why not a single country? My friends Pakistan was created for Muslims but it is allowed that non-Muslims can also live here and do their practices.

Why do you think Bangladesh chose to become independent?

The religion was the same.

And for the question how come they live in a state where they have no right or in other words no political voice?
Well non-Muslims are not allowed to be the head but they can represent themselves in the national assembly. And its not the assembly or court that protects their ( non-Muslims ) rights but the Quran itself protect.

That is not what you said earlier - you mentioned government in general, not just the Head of State, and you also included such a large institution like the military.

If Pakistan is to be a secular state than whats the difference between India and Pakistan. Muslims struggled and died for Pakistan's Creation. And they posses the right to have a country solely for themselves yet we have never had any problems with the non-Muslims infect Sikhs were offered to be with us.
Hope you got the point

Thats a ridiculous question. Why is there any need for multiple countries in Europe, or the US or Canada? They should all merge into one another since they are "secular".

Why doesn't India simply merge with the US?

The nature of a State is not the only reason it exists, and the nature of a State should be constantly debated, and if need be, changed, as the views of the masses change. If a majority of Pakistanis fifty years from now want to allow a non-Muslim to be head of State, and change Pakistan into a secular state, then that is what direction we should take.

 

[Comet]

Why do you think Bangladesh chose to become independent?

The religion was the same.



That is not what you said earlier - you mentioned government in general, not just the Head of State, and you also included such a large institution like the military.



Thats a ridiculous question. Why is there any need for multiple countries in Europe, or the US or Canada? They should all merge into one another since they are "secular".

Why doesn't India simply merge with the US?

The nature of a State is not the only reason it exists, and the nature of a State should be constantly debated, and if need be, changed, as the views of the masses change. If a majority of Pakistanis fifty years from now want to allow a non-Muslim to be head of State, and change Pakistan into a secular state, then that is what direction we should take.

Yes the Religion was same but we failed to provide equality that the very core of our religion. That’s why Bangladesh separated.

Let me give you an example from our history. In the Era of Hazrat Umer (RZ) all the machinery was Muslims. Head of state, Judiciary, Military etc. yet non-Muslims were living in harmony. Jerusalem was taken so neatly that it never witnessed anything like it before or after that era.

For God sake can't you see?! People of this region fought hard to have a separate state. Can you please tell me why people from Calcutta and UP fought for the independence of Pakistan? Just because they wanted to have a separate Muslim State not just Separate state. It is insane that millions of people will migrate from their homes (where they have been living from centuries) to a newly born country without any Ideology.

Allam Iqbal's Ideology was something similar to the very first Islamic State where Muslim oppressed by the Kuffars were migrated to a new Land Madina and formed a government there. There was no non-Muslim in that setup either. Even Jews were not that much influential.

By the way you don’t have any right to change the main Ideology of your state. Pakistan Was Is and Will remain an Islamic State till the end of Time.

 

[roadrunner]

^^ I think Am is right here. 1) Pakistan and India are different states based on their histories and ethnic makeup. That's the first difference. 2) Pakistan was formed to secure its identity as a separate nation mainly, but also to provide a place where minorities could thrive. 3) Pakistan was also formed to allow Islam, which would have been a minority in India, to thrive.

But you cannot underestimate point 2). In Jinnah's speeches he made it very clear that Pakistan was a state where Hindus would be treated on an equal footing to Muslims. In the first government, he appointed Hindus into the judiciary (a Dalit), so one cannot say the ideological state of Pakistan was conceived to be a radical Muslim state that excluded its minorities. The minorities are represented in the Pakistani flag. Show me one other country that represents their minorities on their flag.

 

[cactuslily58]

Its indeed heartening to know of the inclusion of Sikh & Hindu offrs in the Pakistan Army. Loyalty is to the nation, the "salt" , the flag & last but not the least the regiment served.Religion has no place in this sentiment.

While I have no doubt that the Officers will accept them entirely on their merit ( & performance) maybe some day we will know how their men find them to be.

Streaks of bigotry are visible in the replies sent by the " educated" citizens of Pakistan , I am curious to know how the rank & file finds these officers.

A good step all the same.

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ I think Am is right here. 1) Pakistan and India are different states based on their histories and ethnic makeup. That's the first difference. 2) Pakistan was formed to secure its identity as a separate nation mainly, but also to provide a place where minorities could thrive. 3) Pakistan was also formed to allow Islam, which would have been a minority in India, to thrive.

But you cannot underestimate point 2). In Jinnah's speeches he made it very clear that Pakistan was a state where Hindus would be treated on an equal footing to Muslims. In the first government, he appointed Hindus into the judiciary (a Dalit), so one cannot say the ideological state of Pakistan was conceived to be a radical Muslim state that excluded its minorities. The minorities are represented in the Pakistani flag. Show me one other country that represents their minorities on their flag.

India, if you didn't notice that.