Siachen- PAK ARMY PICS

[hillman32]

"This is like a struggle of two bald men over a comb," said Stephen P.
Cohen, an authority on the Indian subcontinent at the Brookings Institution.
"Siachen is the epitome of the worst aspects of the relationship. These are
two countries that are paired on a road to Oslo or Hiroshima, and at this
point they could go either way."

 

[hillman32]

Fifteen years of refrigerated combat have brought only 15 years of hardened
stalemate. The Pakistanis cannot get up to the glacier; the Indians cannot
come down.

"Nobody can win, no matter how long we fight," said Maj. Gen. V. S. Budhwar,
the Indian commander in Leh, whose region includes Siachen.

 

[hillman32]

Both sides deploy about 3,000 soldiers. While the Pakistanis refuse to
divulge how much they spend in Siachen, the Indians estimate the cost at
about $350,000 to $500,000 a day, said Lieut. Gen. R. K. Sawhney, the army's
director general of military intelligence.

Transporting kerosene is one major expense. Some Indian soldiers live in
igloos made of fiberglass panels. Six soldiers can sleep in jigsaw
configurations, crowded into a room the size of a king-size bed. Others live
in ice tunnels gouged out with a pickax. Either way, small kerosene stoves
are the hearths they huddle around. The hissing competes with the howling of
the wind. Black smoke seems to color everything, including a man's spit.

The highest perches are occupied by only a handful of soldiers, and sleeping
is rarely done at night, for this is the most likely time for the enemy to
sneak up. Sentry duty is bleak work. Hot water bottles do not stay hot for
long. A relay must be set up to exchange frozen rifles for defrosted ones.

During storms, the heavy snowfall seems as thick as long, white drapery. The
wind does pinwheels, and the basics of a hard life gets that much harder.
"At my post, you have to use a crawl trench to get to the toilet," said Cpl.
Joginder Singh. "When it snows, the trench fills up and you have to stand.
The enemy can see you and that's how you die."

It is difficult to know how many men have been killed. Some local news
reports put casualty totals for both sides in the thousands, but this seems
based on conjecture. The Pakistanis do not release such details, and the
Indians say they have lost only the 616 soldiers whose names appear on a
stone memorial at the base camp.

 

[hillman32]

Over the years, Siachen itself has been the subject of seven "major rounds
of talks," said Robert G. Wirsing, a scholar at the University of South
Carolina.

Under various Governments ruled by various parties, negotiators have agreed
that the conflict is futile -- and some have even called it lunatic. But one
side or the other has always been too afraid of a double-cross to complete a
deal. Domestic politics are also a hitch. Any compromise involving Kashmir
looms like a lit fuse, especially to unstable Governments.

So the two armies fight on, proud of conquering the elements if not each
other. Their doctors have become experts at high-altitude medicine, their
helicopter pilots adroit at skirting the cliffs. Solar panels are affixed to
some igloos.

On the Indian side, a kerosene pipeline is being completed. A ski lift will
ferry soldiers across the canyons. A pulley system has begun to hoist
supplies up the mountainsides. Bacteria are eating human waste in machines
called biodigesters.

"We have become specialists at high-altitude fighting -- probably the best
in the world," boasted General Sawhney, sounding as self-congratulatory as
his Pakistani counterparts. "We can tolerate the harsh elements. We have
made livable conditions."

We are prepared, both sides say, to battle on the roof of the world forever.

 

[hillman32]

Amid the high peaks of the western Himalayas, where the air is thin and the temperature drops to 50 below, Pakistan, like India, has about 3,000 soldiers fighting in a border war that is now 26 years old.

For a soldier, this is where hell freezes over, a 46-mile river of
slow-moving ice surrounded by stupendous towers of snow. Temperatures swoon to 50 below, and sudden blizzards can bury field artillery in minutes. Men
sleep in ice caves or igloos and breathe air so spare of oxygen that it
sends their hearts into a mad gallop. Fainting spells and pounding headaches
are frequent. Frostbite chews its way through digits and limbs.

 

[hillman32]

Demilitarization of the Siachen
Conflict Zone: Concepts for
Implementation and Monitoring

Brigadier (ret.) Asad Hakeem
Pakistan Army

Brigadier (ret.) Gurmeet Kanwal
Indian Army

with
Michael Vannoni and Gaurav Rajen
Sandia National Laboratories

Prepared by
Sandia National Laboratories
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87185 and Livermore, California 94550

http://www.cmc.sandia.gov/cmc-papers/sand20075670.pdf

 

[SpArK]

Sorry fellow Indians.. hillman is saying the truth here.

Since April 13, 1984, Indian and Pakistani troops have engaged
with one other, eyeball to eyeball, for control of the 76-km long
glacier. At Rs 3 crore (Rs 30 million) per day, the Indian Army's
expenditure on Operation Meghdoot, another term for maintaining control over the icy heights, over 5557 days amounts to a whopping Rs 16,601 crore (Rs 166010 million).

Most of this amount is spend on air sorties, IAF helicopters and
aircraft. At least four to six helicopters are deployed on daily
to drop ammunition, and food supplies to the 108 posts at
Siachen. The cost of being airborne for one hour: Rs 26,000. For
the IL-76 and AN-32 aircraft which have to fly to the base
closest to the glacier the cost works out to Rs 45,000 every hour.

What the IAF ferries also ends up costing a bomb. For instance, a packet of Frooti, normally available for Rs 10, reaches Siachen
at a cost of Rs 85; a litre of kerosene works out to Rs 138.
Besides this, high altitude clothing for the jawans, imported
from Austria and Switzerland, costs Rs 50,000 per head while snow taxis used to cart the supplies to places where helicopters
cannot reach, cost a couple of lakhs each.

But the damages, monumental as they are, are not merely
financial. The conflict has resulted in 2500 soldiers losing
their lives, and 10,000 others being incapacitated more due to
harsh terrain, adverse climatic conditions -- which lead to frost
bite, hypoxia, whiteouts and severe mental stress -- than actual
military engagement. The Pakistanis, meanwhile, are said to have spent only a quarter of India's Siachen bill.

 

[KS]

Sorry fellow Indians.. hillman is saying the truth here.

Since April 13, 1984, Indian and Pakistani troops have engaged
with one other, eyeball to eyeball, for control of the 76-km long
glacier. At Rs 3 crore (Rs 30 million) per day, the Indian Army's
expenditure on Operation Meghdoot, another term for maintaining control over the icy heights, over 5557 days amounts to a whopping Rs 16,601 crore (Rs 166010 million).

Most of this amount is spend on air sorties, IAF helicopters and
aircraft. At least four to six helicopters are deployed on daily
to drop ammunition, and food supplies to the 108 posts at
Siachen. The cost of being airborne for one hour: Rs 26,000. For
the IL-76 and AN-32 aircraft which have to fly to the base
closest to the glacier the cost works out to Rs 45,000 every hour.

What the IAF ferries also ends up costing a bomb. For instance, a packet of Frooti, normally available for Rs 10, reaches Siachen
at a cost of Rs 85; a litre of kerosene works out to Rs 138.
Besides this, high altitude clothing for the jawans, imported
from Austria and Switzerland, costs Rs 50,000 per head while snow taxis used to cart the supplies to places where helicopters
cannot reach, cost a couple of lakhs each.

But the damages, monumental as they are, are not merely
financial. The conflict has resulted in 2500 soldiers losing
their lives, and 10,000 others being incapacitated more due to
harsh terrain, adverse climatic conditions -- which lead to frost
bite, hypoxia, whiteouts and severe mental stress -- than actual
military engagement. The Pakistanis, meanwhile, are said to have spent only a quarter of India's Siachen bill.

Sorry dude even though u had not substantiated wat hill man said abt the cost with sources i m asuming the above said to be true.

But consideting the geo-strategic importanc e of Siachen that is nothing.
Do you have ever wondered why even if the GOI wants a solution the Army (supposedly the one which is suffering there) flatly rejects that proposal..?

Some food for thought:

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

There are numerous other links as well.but I think the above 3 are enough to substantiate my argument.

Money as some people make out to be a big issue like ridiculous arguments like chapati costs 500,etc are nothing more than propaganda value as the soldier doesnt pay for it.
My tax money pays for it...and do u know wat..I m not concerned abt it.
And the reason Pakistan spends a quarter of India is not because they r pece-minded but because there is road connectivity to their bases because of their relative low altitude.
Given a chance they ll more than gladly pay the price and occupy India's positions and mind u they have already tried and failed once.

Google "Operation Rajiv" and u ll know wat im speaking..

So ppl cut the argument here over costs.If Pakistan is not able to keep up with the costs no one is stopping it from vacating Siachen.But dont crib abt the spending on the indian side.

 

[Aimar]

Now wake up and smell the coffee.

no , the coffee will cost 1000 bucks..you smell it.

What did they tell you ?.... local Dhaba gives them a special discount.

yes..kake da dhaba with special menu..from across the border...dont you know ??

A report even drawn back in the 90s, concluded that taking all the logistic costs into account, even a Chapati works out at around Rs 500 each. Something an ordinary soldier is not in a position to disclose.

now this is on topic..abov was just usual troll..
now go and decide wether its 500 or 750..then come back..
BTW why am I replying to you..

 

[Tiger Prowling]

Why Siachen is important enough, to spend million to keep few soldier's there and loseing precious lives without firing a bullet.

Why dont both Pak and India withdraw from it and leave it to snow.

Or is there a EGO problem here.

 

[Areesh]

Ok guys enough BS. This is a picture thread so leave it this way. No discussion about anything else.

From now on only posts about Pak Army pics in Siachen. And if our mods would be kind enough to wake up and delete all the unrelated BS from this thread.

 

[mikkix]

That is true the cost of living in siachen glacier is in $$$$$.
India spend more than 5 times then the pakistanis...
I can tell you more that pakistanis may dont want siachen and they want india to be up there cause it makes their cost up...Numerous amount of money that india spends are occured in these kind of glaciers.. The strategy that Zia ulhaq adapt in his time where he wants to make india to spend on such stupid glaciers ,..
There is no significance of it..
some people says its important for watching pakistan and china links through these but believe me its just a defense tactics from pakistani generals..
There can be a huge corruption involves in it by deploying army personnels there....
Indians can be allowed to post their army pictures here so we shouldn't be conservative in that manner..

 

[Areesh]

When we are talking about Siachen how can we forget Alpha Bravo Charlie.

 

[Taha Samad]

^^ This is based on a real operation carried out by PA.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I know the real Major who was involved in this Ops... he is posted in nowshehra ordinance supplies etc.