Khalid_sdt
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millions of liberal, why don't put this claim to test, just bring 1% of these self proclaimed "millions" on roads for demonstration against the blasphemy law.
Shutter down strike over blasphemy issue
- Thread starter DesiGuy
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millions of liberal, why don't put this claim to test, just bring 1% of these self proclaimed "millions" on roads for demonstration against the blasphemy law.
macho ki macho
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Israel and Pakistan are the two twentieth-century states founded around religion.
Israel:-
1. Any evidence of the orthodoxy impacting the Jewish affinity for the sciences, technology and academic excellence?
2. Any evidence of it affecting the entrepreneurship that has produced over 100 NYSE/Nasdaq listed success stories?
3. Any evidence that it negatively effects internal human rights or women's rights in the mould of Wahabbi Islam or the Taliban?
4. Any evidence that orthodox Jews are interested in expansionism and spreading their religion beyond their restricted numbers?
Pakistan:- (any guesses??)
Israel:-
1. Any evidence of the orthodoxy impacting the Jewish affinity for the sciences, technology and academic excellence?
2. Any evidence of it affecting the entrepreneurship that has produced over 100 NYSE/Nasdaq listed success stories?
3. Any evidence that it negatively effects internal human rights or women's rights in the mould of Wahabbi Islam or the Taliban?
4. Any evidence that orthodox Jews are interested in expansionism and spreading their religion beyond their restricted numbers?
Pakistan:- (any guesses??)
Farooq
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Millions? 1 million? 2 million which is it? Where are you getting this figure? source?
The shutter down strike has proven that the blasphemy law has overwhelming support amongst the masses. Maybe you PDF liberals should try to start a counter protest. Oh wait! It's easier to spew garbage on the web without leaving the comfort of your home.
Also, there are probably millions of homosexuals in Pakistan. Does that mean a homosexual lifestyle represents the collective masses in Pakistan? Your rant makes no sense.
Muhammad-Bin-Qasim
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I take it this was for me not Tariq...
Muse, I mentioned the bigotry of the west as broadening the discussion... I have said this before... The world is a global village and things are now inter connected... This is not an issue in isolation for Pakistan... There are forces involved in this which are attempting to destroy our very basic dignity because once your honour and dignity is destroyed, you can be manipulated to do anything... It is basic psychology that is at work here... Maybe I m not able to explain myself better... This was why I mentioned the west...
As for being forgiving... I was discussing earlier with brother Asim Aquil... The thing is that there is precedent for both forgiving and punishing within the Sunnah... however the technicality involved has to do with if and how the state is functioning... I am repeating myself here but we are all insulting the teachings of Islam in Pakistan... firstly most Muslims dont even bother reading the Quran with meaning... Secondly majority of us take their Islam from Mullah's or Tableeghi Jamaat or whatever that guy with the long beard is telling everyone... Thirdly a lot of our educated are mentally enslaved... the very mention of the word Islam is appalling for some of them... So in this sea of corruption and bloodshed, how can anyone expect a non Muslim to speak good of Muslims? They also suffer from similar ignorance about the deen... They will obviously think there is something horribly wrong with Muslims and possibly with Islam...
So in short... The issue is simple...
1. We should demand discussion instead of insults... Our people should learn the basics of Islam and demand its justice to be applied on society...
2. We should be open to criticism thrown against Islam because a lot of it is misconception and this can give us a chance to correct the misunderstanding (again we need knowledge first for doing this)
3. We should absolutely refuse to be insulted
4. Those who insult our master Muhammad saw despite our sincere invitation to dialogue... just think what you would like to do to a person who insults your mother and multiply it by a hundred and apply it on such a person ONLY after you have implemented the justice of Islam on society... because then you have setup an example and the person who is offending is only doing it to create disharmony, false propaganda, attacking the very foundation of our deen and on top of everything our State...
The prophet saw tolerated all insults during the Meccan phase of Islam's mission... We are presently in a similar state... We should oppose these insults like Muslims used to do in the Meccan era... Zaid Bin Hartha RA attempted to shield the prophet saw when the people of Taif were throwing stones at Muhammad saw...
However when the Islamic State was established in Madina and Muhammad saw showed with example how Islam solves the problems of the world, after that blasphemers were dealt with extreme brutality and violence... One of the persons that was not forgiven at the time of liberation of Mecca from the kuffar was a woman who used to blaspheme against the Prophet saw by writing insulting poetry against Islam... and the Muslim army killed her... even though all of Mecca was spared and forgiven...
Similarly another person was blaspheming against the prophet saw so the prophet saw sent a team of his best warriors (including Wahshi who had become a Muslim at that time) to kill the person and this person was killed...
This issue has to be understood in this technical framework... This is the bigger picture of the whole issue...
warrior_pk
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As i read the different comments few words stood out.liberalism secularism religious fanatics of so called mullahs constitution and laws.to punish someone in the harshest possible manner if he/she use foul language against Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) is a faith,code of life and should not be treated merely as a law that can be changed by a bunch of politicians(we all know how efficient n honest thy r) and who are we to change it when Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) Himself said that if someone commits blasphemy against Him he/she will not be forgiven when if they put their face on the holy cover of KHANA KABBA and cry with regret.The only one who can forgive such offenders is the Holy Prophet(PBUH) himself and may HE forgive their souls.As for the misuse of this well how do we know for sure?was anybody of us sharing our views here was present at such a time?but sadly we all can safely assume that this is misused in some cases and that assumption holds true for any other crime committed in pakistan or for that matter anywhere else in the world bcuz manipulations happens everywhere more so in pakistan.so for the sake of every law used in its truest sense a complete overhaul of the system is required,dnt just run after one thing.As for conspiracies well they are and will always be there and the first thing they attack is the faith bcuz without it anyone is far more easier to defeat and faith is not just the faith in religion its the faith in ur family,faith in ur culture,faith in ur values,faith in ur country so please lets rationalise the term faith too.We are not religious fanatics and dnt wna punish anyone for no reason and we have no problem with any other religion.let us coexist in peace and dnt try to infuriate us on purpose by publishing rude cartoons and saying rude things and then pointing fingers that look at these people they have no sense of tolerance.If provoked on purpose people would retaliate.Live and let live.
I am sick of these political JAHIL Moulvis fooling masses who are also responsible to bring anger of Allah on our people by doing against Qur'an and Sunnah.
If people think they are doing for love of Prophet (SAW) or Islam then its wrong.
They know if something starts to happen that could disclose their real face they will lose their grounds to sustain their politics, minarets and fake religious positions among simple sincere Islam loving people of Pakistan.
Why do they not come on roads over what is happening to very character of Pakistan society in terms of its religious, social and ethical behaviors?
If people think they are doing for love of Prophet (SAW) or Islam then its wrong.
They know if something starts to happen that could disclose their real face they will lose their grounds to sustain their politics, minarets and fake religious positions among simple sincere Islam loving people of Pakistan.
Why do they not come on roads over what is happening to very character of Pakistan society in terms of its religious, social and ethical behaviors?
Humayuncool
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i agree just giving bad name to Islam by doing such things KSA is pretty much good in these things 
muse
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No, we are not going to be frightened Yasser Latif Hamdani
Our liberal and democratic PPP government has once again taken the road most taken. Instead of standing up to the forces of religious orthodoxy, it has sought to appease them by declaring that no changes shall be made to the blasphemy laws. In the process, the PPP has once again let down those liberal and progressive sections of society that had voted for it, hoping against hope that it would one day miraculously evolve a spine and go about the business of creating a progressive and egalitarian society.
In making compromises with the mullahs, the PPP has stuck to its founder Zulfikar Ali Bhuttos legacy of appeasement, which ultimately dragged him to the gallows after he scripted Pakistans drift into theocracy. Where it will take our current leaders, only time will tell. Here, perhaps, the PPP can for once look for guidance from the founder of Pakistan instead of repeating Bhuttos mistakes to their detriment. Speaking on September 11, 1929, precisely 18 years before his demise, Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah delivered a speech that resonates with progressives and reformers even today.
Speaking on the Child Marriage Bill, Jinnah said How can there be such a divine sanction to this cruel, horrible, disgraceful, inhuman practice that is prevailing in India? He was speaking about the practice of marrying off young children, a custom that was prevalent in India. Both Hindu and Muslim divines were up against it. Our Quaid went on to say, Sir, whether certain practices have any sanction divine or religious or not, and when any social reform is suggested, which goes to destroy the usages and customs to which people are used and upon which they have looked as semi-religious usages and practices, it is always known all over the world that those people who have got deep sentiments, deep convictions, strong opinions, always resent, and they believe that it is destroying the very root of their social life or religion. Always the social reformer is face to face with this orthodox opinion...But are we to be dragged down by this section for whom we have respect, whose feeling we appreciate, whose sentiments we regard, are we to be dragged down and are we to be prevented in the march of progress, in the name of humanity, I ask you? To read the complete text of this extraordinary speech please consult page 381 of Volume III of The Collected Works of Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah 1926-1931.
Today the same choice is before the government and lawmakers of the nation that Jinnah founded. Once again the religious orthodoxy has hindered the march of progress and the choice really is whether we want a humane and civilised country or a theocratic dystopia. In fact, for Messrs Zardari and Gilani the choice is much easier. That they are hugely unpopular and widely mistrusted is no secret. Zardari especially has a rather foul reputation, rightly or wrongly. No matter what Zardari does, the right-leaning public opinion in this country will continue to hold him in disdain. It would be a very cold day in hell before Zardari will be able to convince the mullahs that he is their ameer-ul-momineen (grand leader). The prospect of holding on to power for long is also quite dim. The hidden forces in this country are already whipping into line the fractured right wing of the country. Therefore, this is the right time for Zardari and Gilani to look beyond the politics of today and imagine how history will remember them. If the PPP takes a stand here and now against religious extremism, amends or repeals the Blasphemy Law and other draconian laws of this country and refuses to budge from a liberal and secular agenda, it will galvanise the liberals, progressives and minorities behind it; supposing the government is brought down on this count, the entire world will stand behind it. Politics they say is the art of the possible but in a position that the current government finds itself, anything is possible.
Public opinion is not suitably formed in Pakistan given the biases that are ingrained in Pakistanis from the beginning and reinforced by our newly free media, which is not free of bigotry unfortunately.
Therefore, our elected representatives have to lead public opinion and not be held hostage by it. Just because the mob wants to burn people at the stake does not mean that it is justified. We saw the ugliest face of our mob (to call it a society is an insult to all societies) in Sialkot. Have we forgotten that? The elected representatives, therefore, have a clear duty as leaders of this country to chart the best and most rational course for it.
If they cannot or if their constituency places fetters in their way, the right path has been clearly laid down by the founding father of this state in the aforesaid speech: But, Sir, I make bold to say that if my constituency is so backward as to disapprove of a measure like this then I say, the clearest duty on my part would be to say to my constituency, You had better ask somebody else to represent you...if we are going to allow ourselves to be influenced by the public opinion that can be created in the name of religion when we know that religion has nothing whatever to do with the matter, I think we must have the courage to say, No, we are not going to be frightened by that.
Our leaders must take up the exercise of repeating that golden last line every night before they go to sleep. Pakistan and the people of Pakistan deserve people of courage and vision, not self-absorbed cowards.
The writer is a lawyer. He also blogs at Pak Tea House | Pakistan – past, present and future and can be reached at yasser.hamdani@gmail.com
Our liberal and democratic PPP government has once again taken the road most taken. Instead of standing up to the forces of religious orthodoxy, it has sought to appease them by declaring that no changes shall be made to the blasphemy laws. In the process, the PPP has once again let down those liberal and progressive sections of society that had voted for it, hoping against hope that it would one day miraculously evolve a spine and go about the business of creating a progressive and egalitarian society.
In making compromises with the mullahs, the PPP has stuck to its founder Zulfikar Ali Bhuttos legacy of appeasement, which ultimately dragged him to the gallows after he scripted Pakistans drift into theocracy. Where it will take our current leaders, only time will tell. Here, perhaps, the PPP can for once look for guidance from the founder of Pakistan instead of repeating Bhuttos mistakes to their detriment. Speaking on September 11, 1929, precisely 18 years before his demise, Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah delivered a speech that resonates with progressives and reformers even today.
Speaking on the Child Marriage Bill, Jinnah said How can there be such a divine sanction to this cruel, horrible, disgraceful, inhuman practice that is prevailing in India? He was speaking about the practice of marrying off young children, a custom that was prevalent in India. Both Hindu and Muslim divines were up against it. Our Quaid went on to say, Sir, whether certain practices have any sanction divine or religious or not, and when any social reform is suggested, which goes to destroy the usages and customs to which people are used and upon which they have looked as semi-religious usages and practices, it is always known all over the world that those people who have got deep sentiments, deep convictions, strong opinions, always resent, and they believe that it is destroying the very root of their social life or religion. Always the social reformer is face to face with this orthodox opinion...But are we to be dragged down by this section for whom we have respect, whose feeling we appreciate, whose sentiments we regard, are we to be dragged down and are we to be prevented in the march of progress, in the name of humanity, I ask you? To read the complete text of this extraordinary speech please consult page 381 of Volume III of The Collected Works of Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah 1926-1931.
Today the same choice is before the government and lawmakers of the nation that Jinnah founded. Once again the religious orthodoxy has hindered the march of progress and the choice really is whether we want a humane and civilised country or a theocratic dystopia. In fact, for Messrs Zardari and Gilani the choice is much easier. That they are hugely unpopular and widely mistrusted is no secret. Zardari especially has a rather foul reputation, rightly or wrongly. No matter what Zardari does, the right-leaning public opinion in this country will continue to hold him in disdain. It would be a very cold day in hell before Zardari will be able to convince the mullahs that he is their ameer-ul-momineen (grand leader). The prospect of holding on to power for long is also quite dim. The hidden forces in this country are already whipping into line the fractured right wing of the country. Therefore, this is the right time for Zardari and Gilani to look beyond the politics of today and imagine how history will remember them. If the PPP takes a stand here and now against religious extremism, amends or repeals the Blasphemy Law and other draconian laws of this country and refuses to budge from a liberal and secular agenda, it will galvanise the liberals, progressives and minorities behind it; supposing the government is brought down on this count, the entire world will stand behind it. Politics they say is the art of the possible but in a position that the current government finds itself, anything is possible.
Public opinion is not suitably formed in Pakistan given the biases that are ingrained in Pakistanis from the beginning and reinforced by our newly free media, which is not free of bigotry unfortunately.
Therefore, our elected representatives have to lead public opinion and not be held hostage by it. Just because the mob wants to burn people at the stake does not mean that it is justified. We saw the ugliest face of our mob (to call it a society is an insult to all societies) in Sialkot. Have we forgotten that? The elected representatives, therefore, have a clear duty as leaders of this country to chart the best and most rational course for it.
If they cannot or if their constituency places fetters in their way, the right path has been clearly laid down by the founding father of this state in the aforesaid speech: But, Sir, I make bold to say that if my constituency is so backward as to disapprove of a measure like this then I say, the clearest duty on my part would be to say to my constituency, You had better ask somebody else to represent you...if we are going to allow ourselves to be influenced by the public opinion that can be created in the name of religion when we know that religion has nothing whatever to do with the matter, I think we must have the courage to say, No, we are not going to be frightened by that.
Our leaders must take up the exercise of repeating that golden last line every night before they go to sleep. Pakistan and the people of Pakistan deserve people of courage and vision, not self-absorbed cowards.
The writer is a lawyer. He also blogs at Pak Tea House | Pakistan – past, present and future and can be reached at yasser.hamdani@gmail.com
Don't you mean India + The Western countries? How many times do I see bharatis referring to India and the west as 'the whole world'.
Enigma SIG
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Aint it easy to speak up for your rights in the US
Calling for sharia in Pakistan all the while conveniently enjoying the fruits of democracy in Amrika!
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