Should we accept Sweden into NATO?

[KendoKhan]

The Turkish veto won't count for much, what Sweden and Finland want is a way for the UK, Germany and US to protect them from Russian aggression, remember there are other routes too such as a security pact between Sweden and the US/UK.

 

[WotTen]

The Ottomans had a minister which would handle grievances. it was not an Ottoman invention, and not a complete description of the organisation of Charles XII. The word Ombudsman can trace its roots in Nordic languages to at least the 11th century.

LOL, the issue is not about the etymology of the word. Anyway, you can take it up with the Swedish Embassy and educate them why they are wrong.

Turkey calls them terrorists, but has not been able to provide credible information why they should be extradited. When Turkey provides credible information, they are extradited.
That is how it is handled when courts are driven by law and not corruption.

So far, I have not seen any argumentation why the court decision in any of the cases is wrong.
As most cases where Turkey is denied is for journalists and the like, I doubt anyone can produce any example.

They are members of an organization that the EU and US designate as a terrorist organization. In the rest of the world, NATO and the US don't even bother with niceties like court cases; they just drone them to death along with a few random civilians. If the same rules were applied to NATO countries, they would be bombed first and question asked later (or never).

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

LOL, the issue is not about the etymology of the word. Anyway, you can take it up with the Swedish Embassy and educate them why they are wrong.

No need, since the world considers ”Ombudsman” to be a Swedish comcept.

They are members of an organization that the EU and US designate as a terrorist organization. In the rest of the world, NATO and the US don't even bother with niceties like court cases; they just drone them to death along with a few random civilians. If the same rules were applied to NATO countries, they would be bombed first and question asked later (or never).

That is your claim.
The EU and the US (and Sweden) considers PKK to be a terrorist organisation. Neither considers YPG to be a terrorist organisation.

Can you show proof that any of the singled out individuals have done anything which is considered a crime in both countries which has not reached statute of limitations?
That is the criteria for approving the extradition request.
Writing an Erdogan critical article does not cut It.

Turkey has been denied extradition from more countries than Sweden for exactly the same reasons. No proof of illegal activities.

 

[Oldman1]

The Turkish veto won't count for much, what Sweden and Finland want is a way for the UK, Germany and US to protect them from Russian aggression, remember there are other routes too such as a security pact between Sweden and the US/UK.

I believe there was a possible defense pact with UK, Iceland, Norway, etc. willing to help Sweden and Finland while the NATO debate is still ongoing.

 

[Akritas]

In 1980 we approved the return of Greece to NATO's military wing. None of the promises made were kept. On the contrary, some NATO countries took steps to increase the tension between Greece and Turkey. In the 2000s, it was the AKP government that allowed France to return to NATO's military wing, ignoring all the problems between us. In return, France began to openly support a terrorist organization operating within our borders.

NATO is a collective organization, it is not approved by yourself, but by other 20-30 member countries. Greece left the military wing of NATO, in protest of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus at 1974. And to say YES, the Americans had to lift the arms embargo sales on Turkey. It is good to remember everything, and not that it suits us.

As regards the Sweden, while 29 of the 30 members are unconcerned by the move, Turkey views it as problematic.
Lets see the Forest(Turkish policy) and not only the Tree(Sweden and Finland).
Turkey was from 1952 to 2002 a very good ally for NATO but for the past 20 years, it has been a very bad one.
Turkey, pursues policies that are hostile to NATO, it’s aggressive towards NATO members, members like Greece and France, it engages in the invasion of Syria, it threatens Europe with Syrian migrant.
Erdogan's government sees Europe as a transactional relationship, has a long history of adopting a quid pro quo political attitude when dealing with western countries and institutions.

Finally, Turkey’s strategic importance within NATO remains unquestioned. It commands the 2nd-largest army in the NATO and is among the top ten countries for NATO spending. However, given its ambiguous stance during most NATO crises, there's a risk that Turkey’s actions may prove counterproductive in the long run.

 

[MeFishToo]

NATO is a collective organization, it is not approved by yourself, but by other 20-30 member countries. Greece left the military wing of NATO, in protest of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus at 1974. And to say YES, the Americans had to lift the arms embargo sales on Turkey. It is good to remember everything, and not that it suits us.

As regards the Sweden, while 29 of the 30 members are unconcerned by the move, Turkey views it as problematic.
Lets see the Forest(Turkish policy) and not only the Tree(Sweden and Finland).
Turkey was from 1952 to 2002 a very good ally for NATO but for the past 20 years, it has been a very bad one.
Turkey, pursues policies that are hostile to NATO, it’s aggressive towards NATO members, members like Greece and France, it engages in the invasion of Syria, it threatens Europe with Syrian migrant.
Erdogan's government sees Europe as a transactional relationship, has a long history of adopting a quid pro quo political attitude when dealing with western countries and institutions.

Finally, Turkey’s strategic importance within NATO remains unquestioned. It commands the 2nd-largest army in the NATO and is among the top ten countries for NATO spending. However, given its ambiguous stance during most NATO crises, there's a risk that Turkey’s actions may prove counterproductive in the long run.

The turkish army is a conscript army meant to control Turkey, and its main contribution to international operations are in Cyprus and Syria, basically areas they invaded. I question Turkeys importance to NATO besides geography.
I would change Turkey for Sweden and Finland if we had to choose.

 

[Apollon]

Mullah Omar never refused. He asked for proof. The mighty US never provided that.

See---the US never needed sweden / noway / denmark military to murder muslims---the US military had enough soldiers to do that job---a.

Why would sweden send it troops to kill 50 afghans when the americans were killing them in thousands.

500 years from now---when afghanistan becomes a super power---and sweden is a nobody----the Slobodan Milosevic overcoming the moral values of the swedes?vic remedy could be called for by the afghans.

Was killing 50 afghans worth

USA was attacked and invoked tge NATO defense article which made it obligatory for all to help.

 

[musti]

If Swede and Finland kick PKK Terrorists out from their lands Turkiye will be gladfully accepting their membership.

its hard to understand why Sweeden and Finland polticians so much care with PKK terrorists .

Leftist scums.

Privilliges of Honest polticans should be their own country's interests and people.

AFAIK PKk terrorists are not native people of Scandinavians.

 

[Foinikas]

If Swede and Finland kick PKK Terrorists out from their lands Turkiye will be gladfully accepting their membership.

its hard to understand why Sweeden and Finland polticians so much care with PKK terrorists .

Leftist scums.

Privilliges of Honest polticans should be their own country's interests and people.

AFAIK PKk terrorists are not native people of Scandinavians.

Turks aren't native people of Scandinavia either. Tell them to leave.

 

[dBSPL]

If the orientalist idiots and so-called NATO experts at the forum have had express their dreams enough, let's also share the opinion of the NATO Secretary General on the subject: NATO secretary general says Sweden's support for terrorism is an obstacle to its membership.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1536034619363311616

Moreover, these terrorist organizations are on the terrorism list of the EU.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2021:043:FULL&from=fr

A section from today's demonstrations: A demonstration with terrorist leader posters and pkk flags is not freedom of expression; It is open and clear political support to an armed terrorist organization that threatens the national security of a NATO member country.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1535738144737345536

Just as we are struggling with the hypocrisy of France and Germany, Sweden and Finland cannot isolate themselves from this. It is perfectly reasonable and legitimate to use the political tools at our disposal.

We expect a common and sincere stance against terrorism. Without cease to support an armed terrorist organization that threatens the national security of a member state; It is extremely arrogant and at the same time idiotic to expect it to be approved to become a member of that alliance.

 

[dBSPL]

Litmus paper when measuring troll level:

Level 1 troll: Turkiye only expects bribes, if USA gives a couple jets Turks cannot resist this membership request.

Level 3 troll: Erdogan is just showing off, this is Erdogan's personal ambitions, not Turks. Dirty dictator, heil to European values, long live our supports to terrorism, let's kick the Ottomans out of our Christian union.

Level 10 troll: Turkiye is Russia's biggest supporter, have you ever seen them fight? Whereas we are fighting against the Russians everywhere. Russian oil carried by Turks not by Greek ships anyway. We were not allies with Russia in Libya either, we were just supporting the same putschist.

Level 99 troll: Turkiye is a monarchy and anti-democratic, and they still wear fez. And public transport is provided by camels. I ask you, who can stain the civilization and anti-fascist history of the Scandinavian countries? Forced sterilization, skull measurements, all these are just rumors... They are biggest representer of European values. Anyway, we will fight against the Russians not militarily, but with our SJWs, lets kick out turkey.

 

[Samar111]

Is Sweden such a pussy country? It does need even share a border with Russia

 

[MeFishToo]

If Swede and Finland kick PKK Terrorists out from their lands Turkiye will be gladfully accepting their membership.

its hard to understand why Sweeden and Finland polticians so much care with PKK terrorists .

Leftist scums.

Privilliges of Honest polticans should be their own country's interests and people.

AFAIK PKk terrorists are not native people of Scandinavians.

If Turkey would stop the persecution they would probably never had to leave for Sweden. Turkey basically export its problems to Europe, and now blame Sweden for taking in refugees.
Its kind of funny that someone from Turkey is asking Swedish politicians to be honest. Youve probably never met one in Turkey.

 

[Akritas]

Is Sweden such a pussy country? It does need even share a border with Russia

It has a maritime border with Russia, opposite Kalinigrad, an area with 100,000 Russian troops and plenty of nuclear weapons.
The aerial violations of Swedish airspace by Russian planes are continuous, lately, in fact, Russian planes are carrying nuclear missiles.

 

[dBSPL]

Let's say the members of the ISIS terrorist organization, after serving as a military, doctrinal or financial supporter under this organization for about 10 years, got up one morning and decided to name the organization ISWIS; In this case, can Sweden consider the fact that they gather supporters on the streets of Stockholm with Bin Laden posters as a freedom of expression, saying that the ISWIS organization is not on our terror list? Can these people raise money in Sweden under the name ISWIS and provide financial support to this new organization?

If the answer is yes, Sweden is a safe haven for global terrorism.

If the answer is no for some terrorist but yes some other terrorists, the Swedish state is a spineless state whose actions and principles are inconsistent with each other, and which ignores its own interests and has agreed to carry the baggage of others.

We have great respect for Sweden's own national interests and national security, and we care about its geopolitical risks. We would also be pleased to be in the same military alliance as Sweden. The fact that Russia could turn its attention to north while we struggling against Russia in 3 different geographies will be an important widening in terms of our geopolitics too. However, the main criterion here is that both states had to be approaches in accordance with the spirit of alliance.