Should we accept Sweden into NATO?

[dBSPL]

ALERT

/The intelligence level of some analysts in the forum/

"The life of the Swedish or the French is valuable, but the life of a Turkish citizen is not valuable either. Turkey should never oppose these country's political interests and not defend its national interests in the face of these countries providing weapons and financial support to terrorism."

/The intelligence level of some analysts in the forum/


*

Does Sweden provide financial support to a terrorist organization responsible for the deaths of large numbers of civilians and soldiers in Turkey? Yes.

Does it provide weapons aid to this terrorist organization? Yes.

Does it provide training and doctrinal support to this terrorist organization? Yes.

Do they protect this terrorist organization and openly defend their crimes? Yes.

Now, does Sweden want to enter into an alliance that includes the Turkish military elements (which is one of the 3 biggest factor in structure) and civilian institutions? Yes.

So, when Turkey expresses its reservations to Sweden, what is the reaction of the socalled analysts here? Let's talk about how far Turkey has moved away from European values and let's dream of getting Turkey out of NATO.

Some members, unable to grasp how great Turkey's strategic importance for NATO, are trying to push Turkey's justified demands into the background by writing lengthy nonsense things.

Moreover, the alternative strategies they put forward are based on the premise that Turkey will never make a counter move. lol. It's really funny and tragic. This is not an analysis but a kind of imposible wish based on one side perspective.

*

In 1980 we approved the return of Greece to NATO's military wing. None of the promises made were kept. On the contrary, some NATO countries took steps to increase the tension between Greece and Turkey. In the 2000s, it was the AKP government that allowed France to return to NATO's military wing, ignoring all the problems between us. In return, France began to openly support a terrorist organization operating within our borders.

No matter which government repeats these mistakes, public support in the country will largely disappear. If Turkey go to a referendum on Sweden's acceptance, it would probably be 90% NO at the moment.

 

[TNT]

The whole western countries are hypocrites and terrorists, with whom turkey is allied, so no need to go into that. The only thi g Turkey can do is extract maximum leverage from sweden and finland.

 

[Georg]

Turkey already get their butt kicked by USA to get them back in the rigth direction... their would be no turkish veto against Sween and Finnland to join NATO... Erdogan just wanted some candy as a gift to say yes... but now his butt hurts and he say yes befor uncle Sam run over him again

 

[dBSPL]

One of the most superficial western points of view on this issue is the assumption that it is the Erdogan factor that reveals Turkey's justified reservations.

No, Erdogan is compelled to do so. Because in Turkey, 90% of the country, from the left to the right, is in consensus on this issue. If Erdogan repeat the same mistake as in France's readmission, without any solid and written assurances, will put an end to his political career.

@KediKesenFare

 

[dBSPL]

Turkey already get their butt kicked by USA to get them back in the rigth direction... their would be no turkish veto against Sween and Finnland to join NATO... Erdogan just wanted some candy as a gift to say yes... but now his butt hurts and he say yes befor uncle Sam run over him again

It is extremely ironic that this was said by a German. Germany doesn't even have an *** to kicked anymore. If Uncle Sam says sit down, Germany sits, if they says get up, Germany gets up. At least in Turkey, the public is now openly reacting to this one-way benefit relationship, while the Germans in this forum still continue to lick Uncle Sam.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sweden is the country that fears Russia the most. We are talking about a country that built around 40,000 bunkers during the Cold War, mostly because of fear of nuclear attack. This fear is now driving them into the despair of joining NATO. However, they tries to fend off the just demands by trying to develop stupid political discourse, never wanna face their own mistakes and still trying keeping their tail up.

Today, we have read many things accusing and insulting Turkey on Swedish social media and mainstream media, even from representatives of small left parties.

Sweden tries to explain its political interests and irresponsible arrogance with so-called human rights advocacy and liberalism; they accuse us of being an anti-democratic dictatorship. They even try to market Turkey as a pro-Russian, Eurasian, and bigotary country against the european values.

We will get into some details in this thread and I will ask just one question, which writin on title.

*

But first, I would like to make a few reminders to some circles who do not hesitate to slander Turkish values and culture:

How many people know that the basis of Sweden's legendary social welfare state system was a disastrous decades-long campaign of ethnic cleansing. More than 60,000 people in Sweden were victims of a Nazi-style forced sterilization campaign just because their type didn't resemble the Nordic race.

What is the name of sterilizing and extinction of non-purebreds in order to create an 'ideal' society? What kind of thoughts were behind the Institute of Racial Biology, which was established in Sweden in 1921 for the first time in the world, printing posters saying "Ideal northern type"? They explained that the policy followed at that time was to prevent the proliferation of unsuitable generations in order to establish an ideal society. Moreover, among those who support this view, the Nobel Prize-winning social democratic thinker Prof. Gunnar Myrdal and his wife, Nobel Peace Prize winner Alva Myrdal, were also present.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSvMU33WYAAYaSd?format=jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSvMgW3X0AM9ueW?format=jpg

The signature under the circulars sent to the authorities for the measurement of skulls was Tage Erlander, the legendary leader of the Swedish social democrats. In your history books, schoolbooks and encyclopedias, neither how 100,000 people were sterilized written nor the "State Institute of Racial Biology" was written, which was established in Uppsala in 1921, and later Nazi Germany took as an example. European historiography is purely political, lacking in objectivity, and, like Rome writing Carthage, a triumphal quackery.

Years and years later; Historian Gunnar Broberg's book and Polish journalist Maciej Zaremba's research published in the Dagen Nyheter newspaper dated 19-20 August 1997 revealed Sweden nazism and ethnic cleansing methods.

Nordic countries followed the same line as Sweden. Between 1935 and 1976, approximately 50,000 people in Norway and 6,000 people in Denmark were sterilized. Although it is written that sterilization is optional in the law, it has been seen that repression is used in practice.

In 1942, a circular was signed by Tage Erlander to make a census of all gypsies and the mobile workers called "Tattare". Prior to this, a report called the 'non pure race' was prepared about the Tattares in 1937.

Although the opinion that the Tattares could be assimilated gained weight in the evaluation made after the report, the sterilization policy was preferred, and a census and search was started for all their people one by one, because of the fear of the emergence of bad habits in future generations.

When the skull measurements were completed in 1945, it was revealed that the Tattares were Swedish, but the General Directorate of Social Services did not accept this result. After 1950, when UNESCO opposed the use of the concept of race in a racist sense, the Tattares were called "counter race".

And a large number of Tattares were neutered. According to Maija Runcis, who is a doctoral researcher on sterilization policy, since the law only allows voluntary sterilization, the authorities issued a phony report for the victims chosen by the authorities as "mentally unstable".

Documents available show that 95 percent of those sterilized are women. Those who were admitted to the school for the handicapped were also threatened with the worst conditions throughout their lives if they did not agree to be sterilized at the end of school.

The increase in sterilization in the 1940s was partly due to the fact that child assistance would be introduced in accordance with the principles of the welfare state in the following years. Gunnar Myrdal, who wanted to point out that those who do not contribute to the welfare society should not benefit from the assistances, warned that “Child aid may lead to an increase in those with bad hereditary characteristics” at that time.

A record was broken with 2264 sterilization operations in 1948, when child aid began, because people with undesirable characteristics were feared to give birth incessantly to benefit from child assistance. The sterilization operations based on the logic of 'Let the undeserving perish' actually lasted until the mid-1960s.

The eugenics, which began quietly in 1935, was quietly ended in 1976 when the law was repealed. The sterilization policy was tried to be explained by the "breeding" winds that blew all over the world in the 1930s, but research shows that this is not so.

Although purging of incompetent society was discussed in many European states, few states practiced it. And these policies were led by Sweden and Norway.

The real shocking truth: While sterilization was applied only for the mentally ill and during the Nazi era in Germany, in the northern countries under the hegemony of the social democrats, people who were seen as a hindrance in the establishment of the welfare state were chosen as victims. They built their society on a terrible form of racism.

The fact that sterilization laws were passed unanimously in the Swedish parliament, and the church allowed it, is also a point to consider. Lifting the veil over recent history has also revealed the hypocrisy of politicians.

In 1997, the Minister of Social Security, Margot Wallström, stated that she was deeply saddened by the events and would take the matter to the government for compensation, after the incident had a wide repercussions and a woman who was one of the victims of the sterilization policy announced that her application to the government for compensation was rejected.

At the bottom of the letter sent to the woman was this minister's signature and stated that compensation would not be paid as the practice was done in accordance with the law.

(I would like to thank journalist Mithat Alaban for his article and photos they share which used as a source, this part of post.)

***

Today, Sweden still continues to ignore other people's lives for its own interests, openly support terrorism in other countries and try to explain all this with so-called human rights and liberalism. They are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people in Turkey.


Here is a brief summary of the current situation from another thread:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1525392166331240450

The real question is: Should we take Sweden, which has such a fascist and racist past, into NATO? Or should we not? Or is it worth sacrificing our Turkish soldiers, our Mehmetçik, to protect Sweden and their welfare?

Hi,

The christian nations do not want Turkey in Nato any more.

 

[MeFishToo]

Turkey is acting like this at any given chance. Constantly reminding the world how they dispise the western countries they pretend to be allies with. Turkey is free to leave NATO aswell.

“The treaty stated that NATO members formed a unique community of values committed to the principles of individual liberty, democracy, human rights and the rule of law”

Lets prevent true democracies like Finland and Sweden joining our ranks..

 

[KediKesenFare3]

If Sweden wants to join NATO, that's its prerogative and no one else's.

Irregardless of whether people accept it or not.

I want 1.000.000.000.000.000$. It's my prerogative. Give it to me.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

One of the most superficial western points of view on this issue is the assumption that it is the Erdogan factor that reveals Turkey's justified reservations.

No, Erdogan is compelled to do so. Because in Turkey, 90% of the country, from the left to the right, is in consensus on this issue. If Erdogan repeat the same mistake as in France's readmission, without any solid and written assurances, will put an end to his political career.

@KediKesenFare

These Westerners see Erdoğan as an ultraconservative politician who wants to revive the Ottoman Empire and force White Christians into slavery...

Well, they couldn't be more wrong.

Somebody ought to tell them that AKP and Erdoğan are actually the epicenter of a dedicated pro-NATO stance in the political landscape of Turkey. No other party has supported the alliance like his government(s).

He cooperatively endorsed NATO's continuous enlargement policy. To this day, he supports Ukraine's membership (!) let alone Georgia's and Azerbaijan's which is mind-boggling to me given the circumstances.

The whole situation has gotten comical. While religious extremists in the Middle East accuse him of being a NATO stooge, some Westerners here try to convince us that he's harmful to the alliance and its goals.

Personally, I don't know one Turk who's politically interested and at the same time in favor of the Swedish admission. Yes, Finland is welcomed by me. The Finnish people are much more reliable and understanding of our grievances.

Before you say anything: Yes, I am a proud liberal. I support equal rights for women and fight against the androcentristic policies but this has nothing to do with Sweden's NATO ambition.

If EU members can block Turkey's accession by simply saying that majorities decide the faith of the nation in democracies why can't the Turkish government block Sweden's membership by applying the same set of rules?

The weather seems to have changed, hasn't it?

 

[patero]

One of the most superficial western points of view on this issue is the assumption that it is the Erdogan factor that reveals Turkey's justified reservations.

No, Erdogan is compelled to do so. Because in Turkey, 90% of the country, from the left to the right, is in consensus on this issue. If Erdogan repeat the same mistake as in France's readmission, without any solid and written assurances, will put an end to his political career.

@KediKesenFare

What is the current position in Turkey regarding EU accession, is there any consensus? Would some compromise be possible to allow Swedish and Finnish entry into NATO in return for EU accession? What benefits would adopting the Euro give to Turkey given the current situation with the Turkish Lira? ( I realise the process would take some years).

 

[KAL-EL]

I want 1.000.000.000.000.000$. It's my prerogative. Give it to me.

Complete apples to oranges analogy/ comparison.

But thanks..

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Complete apples to oranges analogy/ comparison.

But thanks..

Why?

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

Shut your filthy Indian mouth, China is for all Chinese and Han Chinese has been by far the largest native group in the country for thousands of years since history. Stop making your delusional stupid silly bullshit of Chinese colonized China, you reatarded Indian. You should go back to where you Indians belong that is somewhere outside the solar system as your Vedic history has recorded that you Indians were out of solar space invaders to Earth, Asia and South Asia since you Indians "proved" that outer space ships had landed in"India" thousands of years ago.

Your excited rant aside, just Google if you're able to. If you don't like the word 'Colonized' use a different one you are allowed to. No issues.

Before 1949, the country was little more than a diverse collection of dynasties and tribes occupying the general area we know as the China of today. In order for the new, Communist regime to rally support, it had to rewrite and re-conceptualize its own history along a linear timeline. It had to convince the people to adopt one time zone, one language. Though two of China’s greatest dynasties in terms of area conquered were foreign-ruled, one by the Mongols and the other by the Manchus, Mao Zedong decided that the history of the nation would be that of the Han people and of the Han culture. The language that would be adopted would literally translate as “the language of the Han people.”

 

[etylo]

Your excited rant aside, just Google if you're able to. If you don't like the word 'Colonized' use a different one you are allowed to. No issues.

Before 1949, the country was little more than a diverse collection of dynasties and tribes occupying the general area we know as the China of today. In order for the new, Communist regime to rally support, it had to rewrite and re-conceptualize its own history along a linear timeline. It had to convince the people to adopt one time zone, one language. Though two of China’s greatest dynasties in terms of area conquered were foreign-ruled, one by the Mongols and the other by the Manchus, Mao Zedong decided that the history of the nation would be that of the Han people and of the Han culture. The language that would be adopted would literally translate as “the language of the Han people.”

Stop making bullshit you Indians all the time about Chinese matters, period ! China and Chinese don't need you ignorant hubris Indian fools to define or redefine and teach us who are Chinese, what are Chinese history and geography. You dumb，China was not composed of primitive tribes in its history as that was the case with your India if it ever existed in history ! China was one of the most advanced if not the most advanced country in the world for thousands of years, it only fell behind in the last two hundred years or so. Han Chinese term has come to existence at least more than 2 thousands years since the Han dynasty, before that Han Chinese were generally referred to as "Hua" Chinese since the beginning of history, you ignorant learn the true history of China before you open your foul mouth. Mongol and Manchu are two minorities of Chinese people, they are not foreigners to China, they have interactions with Han Chinese for long time. You Hindus are indeed foreigners in the subcontinent who stole the lands from the aborigines such as the ancestors of Adivasis.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

ALERT

/The intelligence level of some analysts in the forum/

"The life of the Swedish or the French is valuable, but the life of a Turkish citizen is not valuable either. Turkey should never oppose these country's political interests and not defend its national interests in the face of these countries providing weapons and financial support to terrorism."

/The intelligence level of some analysts in the forum/


*

Does Sweden provide financial support to a terrorist organization responsible for the deaths of large numbers of civilians and soldiers in Turkey? Yes.

Does it provide weapons aid to this terrorist organization? Yes.

Does it provide training and doctrinal support to this terrorist organization? Yes.

Do they protect this terrorist organization and openly defend their crimes? Yes.

Now, does Sweden want to enter into an alliance that includes the Turkish military elements (which is one of the 3 biggest factor in structure) and civilian institutions? Yes.

So, when Turkey expresses its reservations to Sweden, what is the reaction of the socalled analysts here? Let's talk about how far Turkey has moved away from European values and let's dream of getting Turkey out of NATO.

Some members, unable to grasp how great Turkey's strategic importance for NATO, are trying to push Turkey's justified demands into the background by writing lengthy nonsense things.

Moreover, the alternative strategies they put forward are based on the premise that Turkey will never make a counter move. lol. It's really funny and tragic. This is not an analysis but a kind of imposible wish based on one side perspective.

*

In 1980 we approved the return of Greece to NATO's military wing. None of the promises made were kept. On the contrary, some NATO countries took steps to increase the tension between Greece and Turkey. In the 2000s, it was the AKP government that allowed France to return to NATO's military wing, ignoring all the problems between us. In return, France began to openly support a terrorist organization operating within our borders.

No matter which government repeats these mistakes, public support in the country will largely disappear. If Turkey go to a referendum on Sweden's acceptance, it would probably be 90% NO at the moment.

The Swedish policy on Kurds reflect the EU policy on Kurds.
PKK are considered terrorists.
YPG are not considered terrorists.
The US actually considers them allies.

Parliamentary question | Answer to Question No E-000843/16 | E-000843/2016(ASW) | European Parliament

Answer to Question No E-000843/16

www.europarl.europa.eu

Turkey should have a NATO decision on who are terrorists and who are not, if it wants to be sincere.