Should the captured militants be killed instead of being put to Trial?

[sparklingway]

Thank you for posting this, i was about to say the same. Also the additional right granted to the suspects is a very good thing for accountability and transparency in the international arena.

If we were to use the Army Act we would have Amnesty International and the sorts shoving verbal truncheons down our throats...

Smart move by the judiciary and executive.

But the ATO 2010 Amendment Ordinance itself has lapsed as the 18th amendment does not allow for more than two consecutive promulgations of the ordinance (so as to prevent presidents violating legislative business but here the legislature has not done its part in debating and legislating the said ordinance). The cases under trial would continue under previously amended laws however new cases will have to be prosecuted without the new provisions. It will be a big mess for the prosecutors.

As the topic is prosecution, the special public prosecutors for Rawalpindi's ATC-I and ATC-II do not have an office, a legal assistant (paralegal), clerk or anybody. They are on their own. In the most high profile cases the provincial special public prosecutor is appointed but for all other terrorism cases how can you expect a prosecutor without any assistance or infrastructural support to fight a case to his best caliber. This is Rawalpindi, a big urban center. Imagine the mess for other ATCs.

You might want to read this post :- http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/60854-terrorism-convictions.html

 

[Jigs]

This is 2010 lets not go back.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

They are fighting in the name of islam---they should be punished under their law---any insurrection is a death sentence----that is what all the muslim Khalifah and muslim rulers practised over the thousand plus years of muslim history.

Expedient justice---these people know that you don't have the guts to neutralize them---you are so weak that you cannot execute them---they look at you and laugh at your face and then they come and slaughter your family and children and you are clueless what to do.

If ou want to strengthen the foundations of the nation----do what the british and the americans did to their insurgents---take them out and hang them in public or execute them in war---no prisoners---.

 

[Old School]

It is also interesting to see how divided we are as a nation to deal with our existential enemy. This is all good news for our enemy. They are united and we are divided. TTP and anything that have shown little sympathy towards TTP are clear and present danger to the very existence of Pakistan . They are all enemy of Pakistan. let us finish them all before they do it to us.

 

[iPhone]

I don't buy the argument that judges are afraid to hand down a guilty verdict because of a threat to their lives, though plausible but highly doubtful. The police and the prosecutors must be doing a bang up job presenting evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. I mean can you picture a case where there is surmountable conclusive evidence to convict somebody, be it a terrorist, and the judge frees the accused regardless. Not possible.
And as for the question posed then yeah at times out of sheer emotions people call for a street justice, I myself am guilty of that, but putting all emotions and irrationality aside, there is a court and justice system and terrorists must be tried in the country's court of law.

 

[HAIDER]

Be like US 101 division , just kill don't take prisoner. Always deal in lead no handcuff or mercy .

 

[Icarus]

If you want to strengthen the foundations of the nation----do what the british and the americans did to their insurgents---take them out and hang them in public or execute them in war---no prisoners---.

Sir, we would love to do that more than any other person but there is a problem, public executions are a humiliation to the other party, if we hold a public execution we can expect a vendetta attack in that very, or some other public execution. The attack would most likely involve about ten people, two suicide bomber at places where the crowd is most saturated and 8 gun men on the outer sides of the crowd. The first man will blow himself up, there will be panic, people will try to run away, others will start picking up the injured and dead, the talibs on the side will start shooting at the crowd and push the crowd closer together while they try to escape the hail of bullets and when the crowd is closer the final suicide bomber will then play his card, the armed men in the meanwhile will rescue the condemned men and flee even before the first ambulance gets there. From what I can make out off my two years fighting the Taliban, their attack will be something similar to this.

Thus public executions are a bit of a no no at the moment, however, you can expect to see them in some years, since the people of Swat have asked for Muslim Khan and his guys to be hanged publicly at "Green Chowk", the place where the Taliban held public be headings, every one in the bazaar at the time was forced to watch, anyone who chose not to, became the spectacle himself.

 

[Icarus]

Be like US 101 division , just kill don't take prisoner. Always deal in lead no handcuff or mercy .

Kill them ? If we so much as slap them the whole world cries foul ! Amnesty International, ICRC, and any other Human rights group you can think of.
The video is played on the news over and over again, "Look how brutally the poor Talib is being treated" "Talibs are people too", that kind of bull crap.

 

[F86 Saber]

Guys my topic has been severely taken into the wrong direction.

I was not talking about the "Suspects", i was talking about the hardcore terrorists caught in the act of killing people like the ones caught from the Ahmadi worship place.
I was not talking about killing them straight away, i am talking about squeezing them dry for information and than killing them without presenting them in front of a judge.

Are any of you aware how our captured soldiers are treated by the militants? They are brutally beheaded and their bodies are thrown to vultures and dogs. And we are talking about giving them a fair trial?

Talking about Basic humanitarian laws? They should be followed while dealing with humans, are these human being we are dealing with who blow up mosques, schools and shopping plazas? I don't think so.


I totally agree with Sir Mastan Khan here, they know we do not have the guts to execute them and that makes them even more fearless.

 

[Jazzbot]

Here are 2 versions of Pakistan, decide yourself which one is better.

1) A criminal did some bad crime, got caught, trialed at urgent basis, found guilty and punished according to the committed crime..

1 thing is sure, every crime will result in facing punishment, criminals won't have any chance to run away from it, at any cost what so ever.. This will be true Rule of Justice, and criminals will fear the punishment as they'll have to face it at any cost..

2) A criminal did some bad crime, got caught, but never trialed, case remained pending for long long time, and thus as a result, from help of some political assistance or from his supporters outside, he got bailed out or released somehow (like it used to happen here daily).. In the end, no justice is done with him..

This is what we currently have, every one commit crime, and then gets away from it easily. Infact, he do crime because he knows he'll clearly run away from punishment in day light.. So after making sure of everything, he just go ahead and do the crime, packs his bags and then runs away.. No one has fear of punishment, in fact they have more courage to do crime because of this lame System we have in our Country, which is root of every problem we have..

 

[devil'sadvocate]

Here are 2 versions of Pakistan, decide yourself which one is better.

1) A criminal did some bad crime, got caught, trialed at urgent basis, found guilty and punished according to the committed crime..

1 thing is sure, every crime will result in facing punishment, criminals won't have any chance to run away from it, at any cost what so ever.. This will be true Rule of Justice, and criminals will fear the punishment as they'll have to face it at any cost..

2) A criminal did some bad crime, got caught, but never trialed, case remained pending for long long time, and thus as a result, from help of some political assistance or from his supporters outside, he got bailed out or released somehow (like it used to happen here daily).. In the end, no justice is done with him..

This is what we currently have, every one commit crime, and then gets away from it easily. Infact, he do crime because he knows he'll clearly run away from punishment in day light.. So after making sure of everything, he just go ahead and do the crime, packs his bags and then runs away.. No one has fear of punishment, in fact they have more courage to do crime because of this lame System we have in our Country, which is root of every problem we have..

A very simplistic argument my friend... Rise of criminal activity has more to do with declining socio-economical conditions and less with the failings of our criminal justice system.

Although I agree with you, that police reforms and reforms in the lower courts are absolutely necessary if we have to improve the law and order situation in our country.

As for the topic... Declare them enemy combatants, set up special military courts and dispense speedy justice.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, we would love to do that more than any other person but there is a problem, public executions are a humiliation to the other party, if we hold a public execution we can expect a vendetta attack in that very, or some other public execution. The attack would most likely involve about ten people, two suicide bomber at places where the crowd is most saturated and 8 gun men on the outer sides of the crowd. The first man will blow himself up, there will be panic, people will try to run away, others will start picking up the injured and dead, the talibs on the side will start shooting at the crowd and push the crowd closer together while they try to escape the hail of bullets and when the crowd is closer the final suicide bomber will then play his card, the armed men in the meanwhile will rescue the condemned men and flee even before the first ambulance gets there. From what I can make out off my two years fighting the Taliban, their attack will be something similar to this.

Thus public executions are a bit of a no no at the moment, however, you can expect to see them in some years, since the people of Swat have asked for Muslim Khan and his guys to be hanged publicly at "Green Chowk", the place where the Taliban held public be headings, every one in the bazaar at the time was forced to watch, anyone who chose not to, became the spectacle himself.

Hi,

That is the one two punch that you are talking about---that is what the taliban are scaring us with---but the state needs to take a STAND---the state cannot and must not surrender to the terrorists.

The state has more resources---they have the world behind them---the punishment to the taliban needs to be examplary as is the custom of that area---the same punishemnt as those enforced by Amir Abdur Rahman inflicted upon the criminal during his regime to clean up afg.

It is upto the govt to market it self better in that area----do things when the iron is hot and you have control---teach the public---why they need it to happen now.

Let their stupidity be not the reason of ultimate loss. People need to be taught why execution are a must.

 

[Old School]

These are enemies of the state who have declared open war against our Republic. They are killing people en mass. We are not talking about general criminals who come under the penal code. Even Geneva convention can not be applied here because these terrorist do not recognize the GC or the UDHR. These guys do not have little remorse for the crime they are committing . Instead they are proud passenger of flight to 'Heaven'. If we put them in prison , they will turn the other inmate into terrorist by brainwashing them. This is a very special circumstance for which we need to apply drastic measures. Any weakness from our side will only give them more time to regroup .

 

[SparklingCrescent]

Most Swatis that Ive met, they all support the army's roll and their commitment to bring peace and security back to Swat. The one thing they don't appreciate is the fact that these rock lickers get a chance to get away with their murderous acts, why not shoot the hell out of these B**h A*s guys right on the spot? Considering these rock lickers, they've (Swatis) had their hearts packed with pain, full of family deaths, they've been offered hell, and put in IDP camps.

All Swatis that I've met especially my family since I've lost an extensive amount of family members, we want these rock lickers given to us and want us to handle them. I swear if our mothers and fathers get our hands on them and beat the sh*t out of them, all the pain they've been through will perish. This will also synthesize the trust between Government and the people of Swat.

But we dream too much, There is no way this will ever happen.

 

[Icarus]

These are enemies of the state who have declared open war against our Republic. They are killing people en mass. We are not talking about general criminals who come under the penal code. Even Geneva convention can not be applied here because these terrorist do not recognize the GC or the UDHR. These guys do not have little remorse for the crime they are committing . Instead they are proud passenger of flight to 'Heaven'. If we put them in prison , they will turn the other inmate into terrorist by brainwashing them. This is a very special circumstance for which we need to apply drastic measures. Any weakness from our side will only give them more time to regroup .

Taliban prisoners are kept separated, one talib per Cell.