SHOULD RAW BE BROUGHT UNDER JPC CONTROL?

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

its surprising we common indians want RAW to be under direct control of PMO where as most of the intelligence experts like B Raman (Ex RAW addnl scecretary) has been openly advocating that there should be some form of parliamentory control over RAW.

 

[Christian]

i do not agree. do u really how much time is taken to cultivate a source and maintain it. it takes years of effort to cultivate sources. the capability was dismantled and we lost lots and lots of good sources who could have given us valuable information. may be who knows even kargil could have been prevented.

no organisation in the world wants to lose that capability and why it happened because RAW was under PMO had it been under JPC surely some person from other party would have objected to it.

Again, i would like to reiterate that the decision was an apt one at that time and period.
India was in a real turmoil and there were many elements seeking to take advantage of/bypass the system during period. The chances of us having met the same fate as our pakistani neighbours was not very far off then. Yes! the political machinery was corrupt! but we survived then and emerged stronger now.

Look at it this way....if the RAW was allowed to gain significant advantage and insight into the internal affairs, nothing would prevent them from attempting to take over except for their own conscience. This is exactly what happened in pakistan when they allowed the military and the intelligence to bypass the bureaucracy and the red tape in the name of some far fetched notion of "saving the country". A period of turmoil is essential in any country..the political system is bound to fail at one point. The learning curve can never be completed without a single failure. Simply allowing a military takeover is escapism and would only prove detrimental in the long run.

 

[Markus]

Again, i would like to reiterate that the decision was an apt one at that time and period.
India was in a real turmoil and there were many elements seeking to take advantage of/bypass the system during period. The chances of us having met the same fate as our pakistani neighbours was not very far off then. Yes! the political machinery was corrupt! but we survived then and emerged stronger now.

Look at it this way....if the RAW was allowed to gain significant advantage and insight into the internal affairs, nothing would prevent them from attempting to take over except for their own conscience. This is exactly what happened in pakistan when they allowed the military and the intelligence to bypass the bureaucracy and the red tape in the name of some far fetched notion of "saving the country". A period of turmoil is essential in any country..the political system is bound to fail at one point. The learning curve can never be completed without a single failure. Simply allowing a military takeover is escapism and would only prove detrimental in the long run.

So why major parties like Congress and BJP never did anything like this?

What the heck threat did the Third Front (who had nominated Gujral for the PM post) feel from RAW ? This is a joke.

The real reason which was discussed is this --> Gujral wanted to become a hero by improving realtions with Pakistan and dismantled RAW structure (especially its operations in Balochistan) but that moron goofed it up big time. Relations with Pakistan worsened after Kargil.

And as article rightly says, RAW has never been the same it was prior to what Gujral did.

 

[KS]

what if that prime minister decides to dismantle or reduce its capabilities again? he would not be able to do that if it under JPC.

Though a possiblity, that is a too remote one to happen.

But once under JPC it will be used again as a ground for a tug-of-war between the Congress and the BJP. Dont doubt it will happen. And then there is the real possiblity of 'moles', especially the Commies who supported China during the '62 war.

Or better still bring RAW under the joint purview of Tri-Services Chiefs and Prime Minister

In this case the PM will not have the absolute veto control and there will not be too much politicisation also.

 

[tallboy123]

RAW is doing a great work...
They should be independent and act according to nation's interest....

No need to control RAW

 

[Kinetic]

RAW was formed in 1968 by bifircating IB. the agency was headed by late Rameshwar Nath Kao, a person considered father of RAW. the main task of RAW was to collect external intelligence by overt and covert means. with in just three years of existence, the agency played a excellent role in 1971 war and helped in the creation of independent state of bangladesh.

RAW continued to grow in 70s and its growth was only curbed by morarji desai to some extent as he believed that certain RAW officials had carried out political spying during emergency. however as soon as indira ghandhi came to power, RAW once again started to grow as organisation. Indira ghandhi and rajiv ghandhi worked hard to improve the operational efficiency of RAW and same continued in early 90s. it was during period of PM gujral, that covert action capabilities of RAW were dismantled. RAW since then is desperatly trying to regain those capabilities.

what i would like to know from members, is whether they are in favour of RAW coming under JPC. historically RAW has been answerable only to PMs. PMs have removed/transeferred/selected secreatary RAW on their personal choices. There have been several instances where a person was selected or promoted based on personal preferences.

in this type of environment, the professional capability of any organisation gets hampered as the head of organisation is at mercy of politician. wouldnt it be a better idea to get RAW under a JPC? even a parliamentary committe of intelligence can be formed to look after the administartive and operational aspects of RAW. This way the organisation is answerable and cannot shy away from its inadequacies. There is also continuity of thought in operations and continuity is maintained even if the govt changes at centre.

Guys what do u think? do share u r ideas.

P.S. a word for trollers/false flag ones, this thread is not discuss merits/demerits of RAW. pls stick to topic.

Good question and we need to think about it. Lets see what is the strategic responsibilities of the PM apart from leading the executive branch of the Government of India,

1) Prime Minister heads the armed forces through National Security Adviser.
2) Only Prime Minister has the authority to order nuclear strikes.
3) RAW directly works under Prime Minister's Office (PMO). Joint Intelligence Committee as well as IB and MI also reports to the Prime Minister.
4) Department of Atomic Energy directly works under PMO.
5) Department of Space directly works under PMO.

Now see,

1) So PM holds all the key power in Govt of India but the structure is distributed. So we are depending a lot on one person. Now in foreseeable future no one except Congress and BJP will get PMO. But if we have these key elements of power under JPC than there must be members from Karat's CPM, Mamta's TMC, Jayalalitha's AIADMK etc etc. Now think what will happen to these institutions if they come under such people all the time, except few days of Desai and Gujral!!!

2) There are minimum chances that people from different political parties will agree on anything.

3) They will publicly criticize and blame each other for decisions or failures.

4) There is high probability that a member can be a foreign mole.

Its true that Desai and Gujral were the worst period of RAW but do you want to see them all the time like that? No. RAW has regained most of its capabilities. Don't know about HUMINT but their organisational structure is good now and above all tremendous improvement in the area of technology. So its better to have RAW under PMO just like other key institutions.

 

[angeldemon_007]

According to me, if don't want the misuse of RAW, then we have to make them answerable to less number of people. I think only PM or President is the best option. Apart from this i also hope, MOD is also restructured with the inclusion of officers from armed forces and removal of all the babus. Its time that we include our military because whenever theres a mess we call army but apart from this we never think about army. Every country has officers from armed forces in the govt. at places were they are needed.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Appreciate it.

At least, Indians are not paranoid enough like Pakistanis because if this thread was about ISI under parliament, you could read 'RAW/MOSSAD' conspiracy from every level of members.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

dismantled RAW structure (especially its operations in Balochistan) but that moron goofed it up big time

Will pay u back with interest.

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

Good question and we need to think about it. Lets see what is the strategic responsibilities of the PM apart from leading the executive branch of the Government of India,

1) Prime Minister heads the armed forces through National Security Adviser.
2) Only Prime Minister has the authority to order nuclear strikes.
3) RAW directly works under Prime Minister's Office (PMO). Joint Intelligence Committee as well as IB and MI also reports to the Prime Minister. 4) Department of Atomic Energy directly works under PMO.
5) Department of Space directly works under PMO.

Now see,

1) So PM holds all the key power in Govt of India but the structure is distributed. So we are depending a lot on one person. Now in foreseeable future no one except Congress and BJP will get PMO. But if we have these key elements of power under JPC than there must be members from Karat's CPM, Mamta's TMC, Jayalalitha's AIADMK etc etc. Now think what will happen to these institutions if they come under such people all the time, except few days of Desai and Gujral!!!

2) There are minimum chances that people from different political parties will agree on anything.

3) They will publicly criticize and blame each other for decisions or failures.

4) There is high probability that a member can be a foreign mole.

Its true that Desai and Gujral were the worst period of RAW but do you want to see them all the time like that? No. RAW has regained most of its capabilities. Don't know about HUMINT but their organisational structure is good now and above all tremendous improvement in the area of technology. So its better to have RAW under PMO just like other key institutions.

small correction, all military intelligence agencies, like MI, NI and AFI report to respective chiefs however they send regular reports to JIC.

secondly, i think we have mature leaders in all parties like jaswant singh, who are capable enough to over see administrative and operational aspects of RAW. i think wat members are fearing is that, RAW will lose its operational freedom and there might be a mole as a member of versight committee. i think it is not right. we can entrust them with independent cabinet posts but we cannot trust them with over sight of RAW. it is not necessary that finer aspects of operations will be made privy to JPC members. they will only over see financial and other broader aspects.