Should Pakistani flag be Changed?

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes like i said. Either the flag should be changed or the meaning of it. Since Crescent and the moon are not islamic symbol. I dont care what the entire muslim world think but i will fallow Quran and Prophet Mohammed PBUH.

No, you appear to be following the intolerant and hate-mongering Hizb-ur-Tahrir nutcases.

If you are not, please show me where in the Quran the 'requirements of the flag' are outlined.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Star and Crescent are 'Pagan symbols', I suppose we should immediately start a plan to launch nukes at the moon and any stars we can reach to destroy them.

I cannot stand the fact that every time I gaze into the sky at night I see 'Paganism' everywhere!

It is all an evil pagan plot to convert me to paganism. I tried to avoid looking at the sky at night to manage 'temptation', but the pagans are sneaky and devious, they made the crescent visible during the day too sometimes!

The stars and the crescent in the sky are obviously the creation of Satan, not Allah.

Damn you to hell Stars and Crescent!!!

 

[Patriot]

Another retarded attempt by Myth Buster to show he is Hizb-ul-tahir Lunatic.You are insane bro.Seek some guidance before it's too late.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

No, you appear to be following the intolerant and hate-mongering Hizb-ur-Tahrir nutcases.

If you are not, please show me where in the Quran the 'requirements of the flag' are outlined.

So any one who opposes your secular ideas becomes a hizb ur tahir nutcase? So I guess the White supremacy syndrome of either you are with us or against us has also reached Pakistan as well. So anyone who criticize Pakistan must be an enemy of Pakistan right?
I hope you did read the Hadis that i quoted in the first post.
The star which represents Islam in Pakistan flag is rejected according to the Hadis of Prophet Mohammed PBUH which clearly states anyone who invents something which is not part of our religion will have it rejected.
Like i clearly stated. If Pakistanis want a ISLAMIC flag then this current flag needs to go, if they need to stick with this flag then the meaning can not represent Islam. The crescent is more of muslims tradition then the star is.

 

[pak-marine]

Re: Should Pakistani flag be Changed?


No thanks the flag is beautiful & we love it the way it is ... these hizbutahrir guys are becoming a joke seriously

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Another retarded attempt by Myth Buster to show he is Hizb-ul-tahir Lunatic.You are insane bro.Seek some guidance before it's too late.

I am truly amazed at the level of ignorance fellow Pakistanis are displaying.

 

[shuntmaster]

The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon as its symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.

The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.

Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.

 

[shuntmaster]

The Muslim Ottoman Empire controlled large swaths of the Middle East and North Africa when, as any empire builders, they decided they wanted to expand and the territory they wanted was in Europe – eventually they would come to control Greece, much of the Balkans and portions of eastern Europe.

On the Ottoman flag was the crescent moon – a symbol the Turks adopted from the city of Constantinople after conquering it. Because the crescent moon was the symbol for the Ottomans, it also became the symbol for Muslims in general for many in the West.

It has since been adopted by some Muslim nations – finding its way onto the flags of countries as diverse as Malaysia, Pakistan and Algeria. Although some in the Muslim community reject the crescent moon because it can be seen as a pagan symbol.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon as its symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.

The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.

Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.

Thank you for a sensible post. But lets hope you are not accused of being a indian agent or some Islamic organization.

 

[shuntmaster]

There is no basis in sharee’ah for taking the crescent or star as a symbol of the Muslims. This was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or at the time of the Khulafa’ al-Raashidoon (the first four leaders of Islam after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or during the time of the Umawis (Umayyad dynasty). It emerged some time after that, and historians differ as to when this symbol was first adopted and who was the first to adopt it. Some say it was the Persians, others say it was the Greeks, and that this symbol was somehow passed to the Muslims. (See Al-Taraateeb al-Idaariyah by al-Kittaani, 1/320). It was said that the reason why the Muslims adopted the crescent was that when they conquered some western countries, the churches there had crosses on top of them, the Muslims replaced the crosses with these crescents, and the practice spread in this way. Whatever the case, symbols and banners must be in accordance with the teachings of Islam, and as there is no evidence that this symbol is prescribed by Islam, it is better not to use it. Neither the crescent nor the star are symbols of the Muslims, even though some Muslims may use them as symbols.

As regards what Muslims think about the moon and the stars, they believe that they are part of the creation of Allaah, and as such can neither benefit nor harm people, and they do not have any influence over events on earth. Allaah has created them for the benefit of mankind, an example of which is seen in the aayah or verse of the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning):

“They ask you (O Muhammad) about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage…” [al-Baqarah 2:189]

[The commentator] Ibn Katheer said, explaining the phrase Say: these are signs to mark fixed periods of time: “From them (the new moons) they may know the times for repaying loans, the ‘iddah (waiting period) of their women [after being divorced or widowed] and the timing of their Hajj (pilgrimage)… Allaah has made them signs to mark the times when Muslims should start to fast and break their fast [the beginning and end of Ramadaan], to count the ‘iddah of their women and to know the times for repaying loans.” (Tafseer Ibn Katheer).

[Another commentator] Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his commentary on this aayah [verse]: “This explains the wisdom behind the waxing and waning of the moon, which is to avoid any confusion in appointed dates, dealings, oaths, Hajj, ‘iddah, fasting, breaking fasts, length of pregnancy, rentals and other matters that concern mankind. Similar to this aayah are others (interpretation of the meanings):

‘And We have appointed the night and the day as two aayaat (signs). Then, We have made dark the sign of the night while We have made the sign of day illuminating, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the reckoning…” [al-Isra’ 17:12]

‘It is He Who made the sun a shining thing and the moon as a light and measured out its (their) stages, that you might know the number of years and the reckoning…’ [Yoonus 10:5]

Counting the new moons is easier than counting days.” (See Tafseer al-Qurtubi).

With regard to the stars, the scholars of Islam say that Allaah created these stars for three reasons: to adorn the heavens, to drive away the devils (shayaateen) and as signs for navigation. (Saheeh al-Bukhaari, Kitaab Bad’ al-Khalq), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is He Who has set the stars for you, so that you may guide your course with their help through the darkness of the land and the sea…” [al-An’aam 6:97]

“And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the shayaateen (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire.” [al-Mulk 67:5]

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So any one who opposes your secular ideas becomes a hizb ur tahir nutcase? So I guess the White supremacy syndrome of either you are with us or against us has also reached Pakistan as well. So anyone who criticize Pakistan must be an enemy of Pakistan right?
I hope you did read the Hadis that i quoted in the first post.
The star which represents Islam in Pakistan flag is rejected according to the Hadis of Prophet Mohammed PBUH which clearly states anyone who invents something which is not part of our religion will have it rejected.
Like i clearly stated. If Pakistanis want a ISLAMIC flag then this current flag needs to go, if they need to stick with this flag then the meaning can not represent Islam. The crescent is more of muslims tradition then the star is.

I don't have 'secular ideas', I have 'Islamic ideas'. The Quran very specifically states 'no compulsion in religion' and 'respect and tolerance for everyone', and our Blasphemy laws, laws against Ahmadis and other minorities openly flout those commandments of the Quran.

If anyone is responsible for rejecting the message of Islam, it is those who defend those hateful, intolerant and discriminatory laws mentioned above.

And I don't believe in the hadith any more - they contradict the Quran in too many places, and are then used to offer convoluted and absurd explanations to explain the contradictions. While some of them may indeed be accurate, too many distortions and lies have been introduced into them to propagate intolerance and hatred by the Mullahs and Islamic scholars to perpetuate their control over society, and it is impossible to pick out truth from lies, so reject them all and simply adhere to the Word of Allah, the Quran.

The Quran alone is Allah's word, and if there is anything worth following it should be in the Quran - so either provide some verse from the Quran outlining 'flag regulations', or this is yet another attempt to focus on frivolous and useless symbolism.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

It has since been adopted by some Muslim nations – finding its way onto the flags of countries as diverse as Malaysia, Pakistan and Algeria. Although some in the Muslim community reject the crescent moon because it can be seen as a pagan symbol.

Those who have rejected the symbols must be some bunch of lunatic muslim fundamentalist right?

Btw thanks for your reply.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Shuntmaster:

The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years

Duh - no kidding.

The symbols are based on heavenly bodies visible to the earth for millions of years. I would think that at some point in human history someone would have gazed into the sky and sketched out what they saw on stone, wood, paper ....

Absurd logic.

The earth pre-dated Islam by millions of years as well - perhaps Muslims should stop living on it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Those who have rejected the symbols must be some bunch of lunatic muslim fundamentalist right?

Yes - I can't really think of any better way to describe people throwing a fit over a 'symbol'.

 

[DV RULES]

Should it be changed to Pure Green or Green and White?

I mean the star and the crescent in the flag is actually Pagan symbols.

The star in the flag represents 5 pillars of islam and prophet mohammed PBUH clearly said :

“Whoever inserted anything in this our matter (Deen) that is not
part of it, it is rejected.”

“Anyone who invented something in our matter (Deen) that which
is not from it, it would be rejected.”

I mean seriously its about time we Muslims admit our mistakes and Change.

If Pakistanis want to stick to the flag then the meaning should be changed to something other so it does not misrepresent Islam.
Then whats wrong with making a cross or star of david a Islamic symbol?

Correct me If i am wrong.

I don't think your points deserve any discussion or we have nothing to discuss more?
Even there is no dream to change it.

We have to use our abilities in positive & constructive directions. Even in discussion on PDF. (In my point of view)