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Should Pakistan take "inspiration" from American style presidential system?

Rather then making empty arguments, would you care to qualify your statement.

All you have done is barge some complaints against the system that do not make sense.
Please explain, how is it broken?
Why is it beyond repair?
Why would a presidential system improve those shortcomings?

The only thing I've heard in this entire thread is personal opinions and grievances, but not one single person has created a valid argument for a presidential system, nor have they identified valid objections to the existing system
Blowing hot air is a lot more easier then attempting to provide a proper evaluation, and opening that evaluation to criticism.
If you so strongly believe in your statement, let's please open your arguments.

I think it is clear to anybody with reason why the current system does not work and has failed. A long disertation is hardly needed. I would say the exact same to you. Rather than blowing hot air, let's hear your arguments about why the current system works and how wonderful it is rather than supporting the status quo.
 
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until wings of ever expanding Dha/fauji inc mafia are clipped not system will work in Pakistan!
 
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There are 3 countries using this system exactly:

1. US
2. Philippines
3. Liberia

Just giving you some facts.
 
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There are 3 countries using this system exactly:

1. US
2. Philippines
3. Liberia

Just giving you some facts.
I'd count out Liberia for obvious reasons as they are not following any "system", can probably add Latin American countries
 
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The best strategy would be to allow Imran Khan to bring in Presidential system as he has no other option now and then get rid of him on corruption charges. Then make Nawaz or Shahbaz Sharif the President.
 
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I'd count out Liberia for obvious reasons as they are not following any "system", can probably add Latin American countries

Liberia was literally founded by Americans and followed a very similar constitution (federal, 3 branches of government, presidential system).


Latin American countries indeed also follow federal presidential system.

You know UK, Germany and Sweden are also parliamentary system?
 
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It's a silly idea that if we copy the American system, we will become as strong and rich as the United States. Copying the win10 system from a supercomputer to a 486 computer in the 1990s will not run smoothly, but will be stuck. The American system eats memory more, the running cost is high, and it will crash and get stuck.
Suitable for their own is the best, DOS system or win95 system will run more smoothly, or based on Linux and other development of their own system is the right path. It is the Philippines that completely replicates the American system in the world.
When the platform is replaced, Win will also be replaced. For example, Android and Apple have completely replaced winDOWS
on mobile platforms.
 
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Liberia was literally founded by Americans and followed a very similar constitution (federal, 3 branches of government, presidential system).


Latin American countries indeed also follow federal presidential system.

You know UK, Germany and Sweden are also parliamentary system?
I know Liberia and its history/relationship with US but they are not following any system...
I don't like parliamentary system for Pakistan's local issues and how the politics function which stagnates and stops good policies and of course very week governments- 80% of these issues can be addressed with presidential style democracy , 20% are cultural
Only and very Big issue I dislike about US presidential system is potential for constant deadlock - this is the brainstorming one needs to get the best out of American system of democracy but since this is the worst part of it
We need to find a work around this situation

So I guess question is should we have US "inspired" presidential democracy not "copy"
 
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Nope. Only by empowering local bodies system can Pakistani governance be fixed for the better

We can have true democracy only through true decentralized of power.

We need a custom build system design for Pakistan. IMHO, best option is to go for Division with publicly elected Governor/commissioners and divisional council.

In my opinion, Provinces should be given a title of region, for example, Punjab region, Sindh region, Balochistan region, KPK region and GB region. Each Division within the region should become an administrative unit. This will eliminate the need of provinces and 18 amendments. Decentralize the power down to union council level. From Federal to Divisions, and from there to districts and to union councils.

I have already discussed the responsibilities of Divisions and districts in a different thread.
Here are some of the responsibilities of district government and Funds should be allocated direct to them.
  1. Economic Development:
    • Economic development and community development initiatives, this will assist Federal government.
    • Every small Business must be registered with district and pay the annual registration fees (Standard fix fee).
  2. Environmental Control: Solid waste disposal, support Federal government with air and water quality management
  3. General Government:
    • Vehicle registration, both personal and commercial.
    • safety inspection & Emission testing of personal and commercial vehicles must be done at district approved locations.
    • Assist in Taxing, budgeting, purchasing, property management, building inspections, district facilities management, planning and zoning.
    • human resources administration, board and commission appointments
    • Assist with election.
  4. Health:
    • Assist federal government with various children and family services including Family Planning Association of Pakistan (FPAP), Child adoption, Child protection services, Benazir Income Support Programme (BISP) and poverty elimination programs.
    • Also assist with mental health services, health and hospitalization,
    • registration of all medical facilities including clinics and hospitals within district
  5. Judicial: Court records archive, title issuance, collecting and disbursing court costs (Clerk of Courts); operations of appeals, common pleas, municipal, juvenile, probate, and domestic relations court.
  6. Public Safety:
    • Each district will have it’s own police department which will report to Deputy commissioner of the district. In maters related to district police, DC will report to Commissioner of Division.
    • Rescue 1122 service and District security
    • disaster planning and emergency management (EMA)
    • regional law enforcement information network (CLEAR)
    • criminal and civil attorney, law enforcement, jail operations, court security, crime investigation.
  7. Public Works: Water and sewer treatment plant, Construction and maintenance of the roads and bridges within district.
  8. Recreation: Financing and operations of parks, historical building and monuments, Zoo, Cultural activities, Museum, etc.
  9. Social Services: Job and Family Services, Vocational training, Senior services.
 
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For people agreeing with me for presidential democracy - this is a genuine issue with this style of democracy
@KaiserX ,@Meliodas ,@Deltadart @PakLeader , @fitpOsitive ,@JackTheRipper @Erroroverload

"Imagine if the parliament has a majority from one party and president is from a different party > there will be complete dead lock in the government, nothing will get done."

till we figure out a solution for this problem we shouldn't/cant take presidential system a viable option
I personally am also confused with this fault in presidential system
 
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We Pakistani have the ability to foil every governmental system in the world whatsoever it may be.
Why?
Our problem is not the system and rules, our problem is its following. What we profess to do or believe, we actually least do or follow. rather we negate it in our daily life through our actions. We have to change ourselves.
We have to be TRUE Our salvation lies in the elimination of the difference in word and action. We have to leave our double standards and hypocrisy. We are rule-breakers. rules are for others. so what does this change of system bring for us? Nothing?
As long as we remain hypocrites and lairs, We can not bring any betterment in our lives.
we have to be true and real, Good or Bad, we have to confront it. be brave to face the reality.
To be, not to be is the real question. Being honest and genuine is the solution to our problems.
We have to change, not the system.
changing ourselves will bring the change we all are looking for.
 
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For people agreeing with me for presidential democracy - this is a genuine issue with this style of democracy
@KaiserX ,@Meliodas ,@Deltadart @PakLeader , @fitpOsitive ,@JackTheRipper @Erroroverload

"Imagine if the parliament has a majority from one party and president is from a different party > there will be complete dead lock in the government, nothing will get done."

till we figure out a solution for this problem we shouldn't/cant take presidential system a viable option
I personally am also confused with this fault in presidential system

You started the thread with USA Presidential system, this USA system has many deficiencies. Pakistani members in PDF has huge support on Presidential system already, you have made some mess in here
 
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You started the thread with USA Presidential system, this USA system has many deficiencies. Pakistani members in PDF has huge support on Presidential system already, you have made some mess in here
this is what I am here for, unfortunately :undecided: :devil:
 
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For people agreeing with me for presidential democracy - this is a genuine issue with this style of democracy
@KaiserX ,@Meliodas ,@Deltadart @PakLeader , @fitpOsitive ,@JackTheRipper @Erroroverload

"Imagine if the parliament has a majority from one party and president is from a different party > there will be complete dead lock in the government, nothing will get done."

till we figure out a solution for this problem we shouldn't/cant take presidential system a viable option
I personally am also confused with this fault in presidential system
Thanks for tagging.
Let me point out some fundamentals before jumping to systems' debate.

Imagine a boy studying in a classroom where even chairs were not available. The boy was so poor that he even didn't have proper clothing. The same boy, after reading in such a setup went to studies abroad and proposed grand unification theory. Why? The student was sincere, the teacher was sincere. No matter what was available in the school, it worked anyway.

Imagine a guy sitting on the floor while some maps are on the ground. This guy tells his subordinate to go directly to the head of the Persian empire and tell him to surrender. When this guy reaches the head of the Persian empire this very same head of empire said: o dear old heaven, damn you, that you have shown me a day when these lizard eating and camel milk-drinking Arabs wants to sit on my throne. He denies the proposal, and then the Persian empire falls. Because Muslims of that time were sincere. Notables, no internet, no secure links, no big cars, no matter how the system was, it worked.

Imagine 3 guys standing on a sand heap in Palestine, and one of them tells others: Ok guys, here we are standing at the capital city of our new country, and we will name it Tell-Aviv. And then the world saw how these people defeated everyone who came in their path. Do you know Mossad doesn't have any fixed buildings as headquarters? And Israel even doesn't have any written constitution? How people are running that country then? Sincere people, who are sincere to their country and people. And according to the latest news, they even diverted the Euphrates River to the sea of Galili after destroying Iraq and Syria. And here in Pakistan, we have lost our rivers to India. That's the difference.

Now imagine a guy, who was a head of a state, that was making fighter jets which was pretty much ahead of the majority of nations of this world. The same state possessed an atomic bomb. Which was a rare technology in that era. This nation was so big that if all people had even picked up stones, they could Bury many nations alive.
Yet this guy and this nation were begging for money. Why? Because from the head of state to the peon in the office everyone was corrupt and was after his/her own interests.

Trust me, you will give a better tool in the hands of a corrupt, he/she will do more efficient corruption. If you will give a better tool in the hands of a fool, he/she will bring a bigger catastrophe.

The solution to Pakistans situation:
1) First we need to decide who is human and who is not human, What are basic human rights. What does it mean when we call some people "minority"? Who actually we are? What is our nation and why do we want to live together? What binds us. And what will be our behavior with the people who don't fall under the broader meaning of our nation? Like if they speak another language or have a different religion. There should be space for everyone and opportunities for everyone. Once we are a nation by some definition, let's proceed towards point 2.
2) We don't want corrupt people whatsoever. Mulk chaly ya an chalay, no means no. We will never accept a corrupt guy because he knows the work. We will never accept a corrupt guy because although he is destroying this country, he is very good at saving my ethnic group or my family. We will not do corruption, and we will not accept corruption, just like Namoos e Risalat issue, whatsoever.


Then you will see, it was never about systems, it always was about people.

Edit: And if you still have some confusions in your mind, just see the following two figures:
2249622-tanzeelaumehabibaqambrani-1593005811.jpg


pJHGvopg_400x400.jpeg


Are people shown in the images Pakistani? Will the people of Pakistan choose them as prime ministers of Pakistan? And if not then why not?
Well, it is the justice system that stems directly from the people's hearts that needs a change, rather than the ruling system.
 
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