Should Pakistan take "inspiration" from American style presidential system?

[Maula Jatt]

I think US style democracy is one of the best in the world from governance presepctive and for the most part is very beneficial to small states and Thier rights

American Presidential system

Phillipines and Latin America also follows this style of governance

Philippines is doing good to decent while Latin America is stagenent (I think drugs, US hegemony made it that way)

But corruption becomes a huge problem in this system

 

[Mentee]

Without decentralization of power no system can deliver in the longer run .

 

[Maula Jatt]

Without decentralization of power no system can deliver in the longer run .

US style democracy is one THE MOST decentralized democracy on planet

When I say copy US democracy, I say copy it all the way where true decentralization happens

You directly elect your Mayor that is very powerful, every state gets same Senate veto right

To overrule president or House of representatives (parliament)

And these senators are directly elected too

So both Balochistan and Punjab become equal in senate and they're directly elected like you elect president, mayor etc

Not nominated like rn

 

[Norwegian]

I think US style democracy is one of the best in the world from governance presepctive and for the most part is very beneficial to small states and Thier rights

American Presidential system
View attachment 810377
View attachment 810378
View attachment 810379
Phillipines and Latin America also follows this style of governance

Philippines is doing good to decent while Latin America is stagenent (I think drugs, US hegemony made it that way)

But corruption becomes a huge problem in this system

Nope. Only by empowering local bodies system can Pakistani governance be fixed for the better

 

[Maula Jatt]

Nope. Only by empowering local bodies system can Pakistani governance be fixed for the better

Local bodies are powerful with a powerful mayor
This why I am saying copy all the way down too not halfway bs

I like this system because I think people complain about Punjab dominant due to population

This system solves it where every state is closest to an independent country without being an "independent" country
While in federal government with directly elected senator

Everyone is equal in some ways (except for house of representatives)

 

[peagle]

I think US style democracy is one of the best in the world from governance presepctive and for the most part is very beneficial to small states and Thier rights

American Presidential system
View attachment 810377
View attachment 810378
View attachment 810379
Phillipines and Latin America also follows this style of governance

Philippines is doing good to decent while Latin America is stagenent (I think drugs, US hegemony made it that way)

But corruption becomes a huge problem in this system

American system is a joke, it only works because they've become used to it.
It is based on strong checks and balances, these are central to the system, but useless in practice.

There have been a number of times, the candidate with fewer votes won the election >> imagine what would happen in Pakistan.

The president is elected by an electoral college, there have been times when these electors have changed their allegiance > this is the same as Ayubs basic democrats, open to complete manipulation.

Their supreme court judges are appointed for life > imagine if Iftikhar Chaudary types being appointed for life.

Imagine if the parliament has a majority from one party and president is from a different party > there will be complete dead lock in the government, nothing will get done.

lol there are so many examples to show why it is unsuitable, it is a silly system only suitable for America, it will create nothing but instability in Pakistan.


Pakistan has a perfectly good system, but all systems are always evolving, keep making small changes, and over time it will improve.

If we continue to demand drastic change, we will never achieve stability. This is a crazy demand, that keeps getting repeated every few years. but remember, no system is perfect, it will be the same people running it. The best thing is to just keep one system and keep making small changes over time.

Parliamentary system is inclusive, it gives everyone a say and so many other benefits that are not available in a presidential form of government.

 

[Deltadart]

I think US style democracy is one of the best in the world from governance presepctive and for the most part is very beneficial to small states and Thier rights

American Presidential system
View attachment 810377
View attachment 810378
View attachment 810379
Phillipines and Latin America also follows this style of governance

Philippines is doing good to decent while Latin America is stagenent (I think drugs, US hegemony made it that way)

But corruption becomes a huge problem in this system

I fully agree with you. The US presidential system is one of the best decentralized, federal unions on earth. It's a darn shame that thoughtout our decades old relationship with the US, we never sought their assistance in setting up and establishing this form of government in Pakistan. It will bring stability and accountability to the nation.

 

[JackTheRipper]

I think their "states" system is better, instead "provinces".
In Pakistan all get votes on religious or language hate basis..

and their is no family politics in US, i mean no one comes like Pakistan,

Bhutto > Benazir > Bilawal
Gnajus > Maryem

Imran Khan's lost reputation too much due to inflation, otherwise his sons will be like bilawal, maryem

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IMO the real issue is the lack of delegation or devolution to the local level. I think the provincial system as a whole needs to go.

Replace it with 100+ districts that (1) collect the tax and (2) manage the needs of the district mostly however they want. So, let them invest in preserving a particular language, culture, etc, provided they adhere to federal mandates towards healthcare, baseline education, etc.

If some districts want to live in the 7th century, then let them be. If someone there dislikes it, they can move to another district suited to their needs and preferences. The worst districts will lose their population and die off (no tax collection). IMO 'dead' districts can help absorb and naturalize refugees without destabilization risks (@313ghazi).

 

[Mentee]

US style democracy is one THE MOST decentralized democracy on planet

When I say copy US democracy, I say copy it all the way where true decentralization happens

Yeah but there's a class among us who who cannot serve below bps-17 , the criteria for which is a simple arts degree ------ a President can only come up with socio-economic objectives but their achievement lies with the bearucracy


So, adopting u.s system wrt to civil services would mean to do away with the pagan system of governance and a strict adherence to scientific disciplines,right man for the job, like appointing a professional for each particular dept. which may lead to the opening of flood gates of resignations , not that it gonna affect our system e.g plenty of senior doctors are available to replace a b.a pass Secretary health at any given time .


Now are we as nation ready to abandon this m.a angraizi > Msc mindset?

 

[TsAr]

Presidential system is better, BUT the issue is not the system here its corruption. So no matter whatever the system we need to root out corruption first.

 

[PakLeader]

Pakistan needs a presidential system, there is no doubt there. The Parliamentary system has failed and rotten to the core in Pakistan. Do we need a U.S style Presidential system? No. The U.S system has plenty of flaws and though it has worked in thr U.S it won't work elsewhere. A political system needs to be developed based on country's own unique circumstances. You can't import of impose a system, that won't work and that's why our current system is a failure.

With that said, I will agree with what most other have said. We need strong local governments, get rid of the provinces and have 100+ or what ever number of local governments. At the top you need a strong Presidential system to implement uniformity of policy and development across the country. That is the only way forward.

 

[Maula Jatt]

American system is a joke, it only works because they've become used to it.
It is based on strong checks and balances, these are central to the system, but useless in practice.

There have been a number of times, the candidate with fewer votes won the election >> imagine what would happen in Pakistan.

The president is elected by an electoral college, there have been times when these electors have changed their allegiance > this is the same as Ayubs basic democrats, open to complete manipulation.

Their supreme court judges are appointed for life > imagine if Iftikhar Chaudary types being appointed for life.

Imagine if the parliament has a majority from one party and president is from a different party > there will be complete dead lock in the government, nothing will get done.

lol there are so many examples to show why it is unsuitable, it is a silly system only suitable for America, it will create nothing but instability in Pakistan.


Pakistan has a perfectly good system, but all systems are always evolving, keep making small changes, and over time it will improve.

If we continue to demand drastic change, we will never achieve stability. This is a crazy demand, that keeps getting repeated every few years. but remember, no system is perfect, it will be the same people running it. The best thing is to just keep one system and keep making small changes over time.

Parliamentary system is inclusive, it gives everyone a say and so many other benefits that are not available in a presidential form of government.

only successful purely parliamentary democracy is UK- let that sink in... (despite UK colonizing most of the world so many countries following parliamentary democracy)
And except for this genuine flaw of dead lock - all else is Ok

Make electoral colledge legally obligable to carry out the will of his voters- if he doesn't than his vote doesn't count and hell be replaced (after wards criminal prosecution)
Make Chief Justices term 2.5 or 5 years

Pakistan needs a presidential system, there is no doubt there. The Parliamentary system has failed and rotten to the core in Pakistan. Do we need a U.S style Presidential system? No. The U.S system has plenty of flaws and though it has worked in thr U.S it won't work elsewhere. A political system needs to be developed based on country's own unique circumstances. You can't import of impose a system, that won't work and that's why our current system is a failure.

With that said, I will agree with what most other have said. We need strong local governments, get rid of the provinces and have 100+ or what ever number of local governments. At the top you need a strong Presidential system to implement uniformity of policy and development across the country. That is the only way forward.

Presidential system is better, BUT the issue is not the system here its corruption. So no matter whatever the system we need to root out corruption first.

I think their "states" system is better, instead "provinces".
In Pakistan all get votes on religious or language hate basis..

and their is no family politics in US, i mean no one comes like Pakistan,

Bhutto > Benazir > Bilawal
Gnajus > Maryem

Imran Khan's lost reputation too much due to inflation, otherwise his sons will be like bilawal, maryem

I fully agree with you. The US presidential system is one of the best decentralized, federal unions on earth. It's a darn shame that thoughtout our decades old relationship with the US, we never sought their assistance in setting up and establishing this form of government in Pakistan. It will being stability and accountability to the nation.

@Patriot forever

"Imagine if the parliament has a majority from one party and president is from a different party > there will be complete dead lock in the government, nothing will get done."
deadlock is a genuine issue in this system though - we need a work around this

Islamist can support this too- as it is the closest to Calipha system in a democracy

 

[KaiserX]

Presidential system would be best for Pakistan but not the American style because in America the president is not that powerful by law but is powerful because they are considered the leader of their party (democrat/republican). In many ways this can only work if there is a 2 party system as there is in america.

Pakistan can never have a 2 party system. The subcontinent is utterly diverse in ethnicity/religion/thought that it would be next to impossible to implement a single party/2 party system anywhere in the subcontinent.

Thus Pakistans presidential system will have to be tailored to be truly unique to our needs and culture.

1. The timing of the Legislative/Presidential/Local elections would have to be at the same time. This makes sure that whichever party gets the Presidency will also have a majority in the National Assembly. We can do this by a single top down ballot for all 4 posts. This would ensure there would never be a lame duck president during any period as (this is very common in america when congress-president are from different parties. During this period the president becomes nothing more than a symbolic figurehead)

2. President will be selected by direct vote, winner being whoever gets a simple majority. Outline of election would be people choosing their president, Senate rep, NA rep, and district mayor all at the same time in a top down ballot style.

3. Get rid of PROVINCES completely. Create districts ran by mayors along NA lines. No need to provinces when we can strenghen local governance and deliver far better results. This will also unify the nation significantly. We can keep Azad Kashmir + Waziristan as territories with there own President/PM, but under the federation.

3. President will be more powerful. In the sense they will be able to pass ordances which will become laws within 30 days unless the NA/Senate objects. The president at this point will also have the majority in the NA so the NA would not intervene.

4. Cabinet will be fully selected by the President, cabinet member CANNOT be from the NA/Senate, similar to the American system cabinet members should be technocrats.

5. I am fully in favour of getting rid of the PM post completely, and instead replacing it with a Vice President post

Eventually political parties will realize that it would suit them better to create coalitions when it comes to president selection, since president wins by simple majority. You may eventually see all the political parties uniting under right wing/left wing blocks to fight elections (PPP+ANP+PTM+BAP+PMLN) vs. (PTI+JI+TLP+MQM+PMLQ).

 

[Meliodas]

I think US style democracy is one of the best in the world from governance presepctive and for the most part is very beneficial to small states and Thier rights

American Presidential system
View attachment 810377
View attachment 810378
View attachment 810379
Phillipines and Latin America also follows this style of governance

Philippines is doing good to decent while Latin America is stagenent (I think drugs, US hegemony made it that way)

But corruption becomes a huge problem in this system

Pakistan should follow same procedure for selection of head of state as us does, what name you give it doesn't matter.