Should Pakistan purchase the Venezuelan F16

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Buy the F-16s from Vanazuellan sent them for upgrades to Turkey and bill to US.

 

[Kompromat]

why buy old when getting new.another PAF f16 unveiled.
PAF F-16C block 52 #10901 is taxiing by the lens at NAS Fort Worth on December 15th, 2009 after performing a functional check flight

Central Dorsal spine in C model is Missing and CFT's can be placed without it.

This is how they will look like.

 

[ADT]

Guys be realistic. F16 is still the workhorse of United States Air Force and will remain to be in the next decade and even longer. The most technologically advanced and efficient and superior Air Force in the World uses F16s for almost all of her air-to-air and air-to-ground operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere should tell you something about the capabilities of the Plane.

I don't think PAF would buy used F-16s unless they're in good condition. They would rather go for spanking new JF-17s than old F16s jets.

All F-16's are combat proven. We don't know yet how the JF-17 will fare in air to air combat and it still lacks modern components and is a conventional aircraft not designed for air superiority as the F-16 as nearly all of its components have Chinese input..

F-16's old and new have already been proven.

Stealth Fighter jets are a burden on economy and useless. We have not seen them in any action in the Past 10 years nor will we see them in the next couple of decades. $50,000 per flying hour in maintanence costs. Practically speaking it costs too much to maintain, it is not worth the money. Therefore we cant afford them and should rather invest in counter stealth systems.

This is not true, don't forget the F-117s used in Kosovo. We are in a new age of technology and we cannot affort to lag behind in this area. We need stealth fighters and counter stealth systems to stay ahead of the game. If war happens again (God Forbid) we need to have the advantage in every sector.

 

[Mani2020]

All F-16's are combat proven. We don't know yet how the JF-17 will fare in air to air combat and it still lacks modern components and is a conventional aircraft not designed for air superiority as the F-16 as nearly all of its components have Chinese input..

F-16's old and new have already been proven.




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Come on all of you guys have samethng to say over and over again i.e f-16's are combat proven so what? now they are aging and if u still wana argue on combat proven f-16's thn f-86 sabres were also combat proven what was the need to retire them ,why dun have them till 2025

if the only thng which matters is combat proveness then why the hell USA and other airforces are replacing there f-16s

Reason is
Evry aircrafts has its time when it gains peak but with time span new tech replaces it like the f-86 were replaced by f-4 and others and f-4 and f-20 were replaced by f-16 and now f-16 should be replaced by sumthng better

and let me explain u another thng , the combats in which f-16 proved their worth are not fought by airforces of same callibre ...People always talk about Afghanistan and Iraq tell me onethng what Aircrafts taliban had or have? and what Iraqi airfrce got? few old migs?
if just bombing on the country which has zero airforce is combat provenss then believe me any aircraft even our A-5's can do it

 

[desiman]

I just thought it would be a good idea , since Venezuela is having serious problems with its fleet of f16 fighters , and US companies do not want to supply them parts

So might a well sell off these assets to third party and right now
US-Pakistan are allies (Nato Allies) so I do not see any objection to these birds flying in Pakistan Airforce

May be if we run MLU on this birds, it would be great addition a full squadron , and we can may be retire a older squadron with these birds.

I heard they got these F16 in 90's or so so I think if we update them with MLU upgrade and may be they can serve us better

We were suppose to get 70 F16 in 90's so if we get these 24 at least it wll cover some gaps

Venezuella can may be get more K8 - or other Chinese planes for its needs.... for which it can get parts for it. Or sell them Mig variant fighters

Otherwise what is the use for having planes that cannot fly on missions? Just waste of money

Perhaps our Airforce should consider this option

Venezuella gets :
a) 10 K-8 (with parts and service) [Trainers , light fighters]
b) 10 Chinese fighters (J10) or 15 (J-7)
c) Plus cash 20 million cash or 10 Al Khalid Tanks (Evaluation)
d) 50 shoulder fired anza stingers (Evaluation discount)

Also K-8 is good platform for their anti drug initiatives

MOU on energy projects , oil vs 18 FC-1 purchase

Pakistan gets :
24 F16 - negotiates MLU from USA, we upgrade these to C/D Block levels
I mean we are getting extra MLU kits arent we ?

US gets :
Knows the vipers are in allied forces , and also it will create work in F16 upgrade and
engineering sector in US. These fleet we can just get these upgraded in US 2 plane at time, while Turkey upgrades our existing fleet, US biggest concern is that these planes do not go to other states it does not gets along with

Pakistan Prespective
F16 : A/B 45 F16 Upgraded to Block C/D level 90%
F16: C/D 18+14 , 18(Option) = 50
F16: A/B 24 if we purchase these with US permission from Vanezuella Upgraded to Block C/D level 90%

119 ~ F16 Vipers to counter Indian 125 fighter MRCA

Mean while our JF17 Thunder & J10B would go head to head with Sukhoi & Mirage2000

So it would be a good strategic balance ... untill India inducts the stealth fighters in 2020

This is the defence industry not your local sabzi market lol

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Come on all of you guys have samethng to say over and over again i.e f-16's are combat proven so what? now they are aging and if u still wana argue on combat proven f-16's thn f-86 sabres were also combat proven what was the need to retire them ,why dun have them till 2025

if the only thng which matters is combat proveness then why the hell USA and other airforces are replacing there f-16s

Reason is
Evry aircrafts has its time when it gains peak but with time span new tech replaces it like the f-86 were replaced by f-4 and others and f-4 and f-20 were replaced by f-16 and now f-16 should be replaced by sumthng better

and let me explain u another thng , the combats in which f-16 proved their worth are not fought by airforces of same callibre ...People always talk about Afghanistan and Iraq tell me onethng what Aircrafts taliban had or have? and what Iraqi airfrce got? few old migs?
if just bombing on the country which has zero airforce is combat provenss then believe me any aircraft even our A-5's can do it

And what about the Isreali combat record on F-16 against Syrian planes in Bekka Valley and the more recent Balakans combat agianst a more sophisticated ground to air soviet based weapons? Does it count?

My friend in your zeal to promote the JF-17 and other Chinese hardware (A good a/c and proud of it) let us not try to bring down what is a proven tactical strike platform.

Furthermore, A/c's are rated on a lot of other things in peace time such as Sustained Sortie Rates, Platform Survivability to hostile fire, Airframe Life, Engine Life, Turn around Time, mision flexibility, interoperatability, weapons load out etc. Fortunately, F-16 has an oustanding record in all of the major areas.

Without doubt the US R&D has been on the cutting edge and benefitting from the global deployment needs of their forces. This factor alone puts US in a unique position to benefit from not only the sale and subsequent experiences of friendly forces but advance deployment of their own forces in Deserts of Arabia (Hot & Dry), Snows of Alaska and Northern Europe and the relatively humid climates of Europe and the Pacific theater.

The Chinese equipment is fast catchnig up but still lacks in powerplant life, mission electronics, sustained sortie rates etc. Maybe some of the seniors who have had flying exepereince of both the F-16 & the Chineses A/c's can shed some light on this aspect.

Just a reality check my friend.

 

[Mani2020]

Aamir Hussain And what about the Isreali combat record on F-16 against Syrian planes in Bekka Valley

do u thnk syrian airforce was on par with Isreal? and by the way that was due to poor quality of tactics...if u know alot than you should also b aware of the fact that most of the aircrafts were destroyed on the ground...giving no chance to the aircrafts to get one on one...n u should also remebr what happened when Paf pilots went there

My friend in your zeal to promote the JF-17 and other Chinese hardware (A good a/c and proud of it) let us not try to bring down what is a proven tactical strike platform.

Um not promoting jf-17 and if anyone promotes it wats wrong in it its our aircraft made by us every country promotes their equipment and harware..look at the indians instead of LCA not operational still they promote and admire it its natural...u are an exception

Without doubt the US R&D has been on the cutting edge and benefitting from the global deployment needs of their forces.

I din say that US tech is not gud no doubt its outstanding um just saying f-16 are too old they have many more aircrafts better than f-16 now ..no doubt f-16 is the workhorse of USAF but also have to admit the fact that f-16 is the least capable aircraft in USAF

World is moving on and u have to move on ....we had enough of f-16 era now its time to move on ....u cant compare f-16 in lights of SU-30,su-47,F-15strike eagle and slam eagle,f-22,f-35.rafale,ef-2000 stuff

 

[Aamir Hussain]

do u thnk syrian airforce was on par with Isreal? and by the way that was due to poor quality of tactics...if u know alot than you should also b aware of the fact that most of the aircrafts were destroyed on the ground...giving no chance to the aircrafts to get one on one...n u should also remebr what happened when Paf pilots went there



Um not promoting jf-17 and if anyone promotes it wats wrong in it its our aircraft made by us every country promotes their equipment and harware..look at the indians instead of LCA not operational still they promote and admire it its natural...u are an exception




I din say that US tech is not gud no doubt its outstanding um just saying f-16 are too old they have many more aircrafts better than f-16 now ..no doubt f-16 is the workhorse of USAF but also have to admit the fact that f-16 is the least capable aircraft in USAF

World is moving on and u have to move on ....we had enough of f-16 era now its time to move on ....u cant compare f-16 in lights of SU-30,su-47,F-15strike eagle and slam eagle,f-22,f-35.rafale,ef-2000 stuff

My friend, are we getting any of the SU's the Rafale's or the Euro's that we are peddling here? Getting tired of our toys and wanting new ones is one thing but actually someone agreeing to give it to you and your affordability is an altogether a different thing.

Are we taking in to account force integration cost of any one of these platforms u have mentioned provided we can afford them???

Venezuelan fighters can only be good if they have less than 2000 flying hours -- otherwise it would be a wrong choice. This is exactly what we did in the case of the Mirages (You did not have anything against that did you?) The MLU can add another 4000 hrs to airframe.


The fact is that we have to look at two or three things when we go out and look for newer platforms:

1. Accessibility (is the manufacturing country ready to sell the technology to us?)
2. Cost of the platform but also the force integration cost as well.
3. Our mission profile requirement.
4. Technology assimilation capability (The Air Chief is on record on saying that some of the platforms mentioned by u are beyond our industry to sustain at this point in time.)
5. Sometimes, the time required to integrate the platform in to the force.
6. Finally our strategic plan that dictates point 3 and our geopolitical posturing as well.

As far as Bekka Valley is concerned - battle tactics are built around the mission capability of your air craft’s and not the other way around -- at least most of the time. If Israeli pilots are good, than part of their success lies in having the right mix of platform, tactics, training and motivation.

The F-16's we are buying are being offered to us, brand new, with cutting edge technology, suited to our mission needs, at a price we can afford, with the technology we can assimilate, with little or no additional cost of force integration (most of the pilot training has been paid for by the Aid program).

As far as the older EDA F-16's are concerned; free, and all of the above with relatively very little upgrade cost.

After all has been said and done -- the final word is of our Air Force and its command after all they have to deliver the goods at the end of the day. After careful evaluations of the above points they choose the Viper!!!!!!

 

[arsalan shafique]

ahhhhhhhhh...............................
F-16 f-16 f-16....please let PAf go some other bird.......
please let it come out of graveyard!!!

 

[Frankenstein]

IMO its not a bad option, our pilots are awesome in handling these birds, and they are still considered as the finest

 

[Mani2020]

My friend, are we getting any of the SU's the Rafale's or the Euro's that we are peddling here? Getting tired of our toys and wanting new ones is one thing but actually someone agreeing to give it to you and your affordability is an altogether a different thing.
:

Who told u that french ,sweeden and chinese will not provide us Rafale,gripen and j-11 they are more than ready to sale us and regarding the question of affordability i expected this question as most of people talk about affordability thing and i always asked one question and let me ask this from u

Where do u think the last 2 decade budget of PAF went? when PAF didn buy a single high -tech aircraft? why we always cry budget budget

and one thng more

F-16 package for 18 new f-16c/d, related amunition, and MLU is costing ~4-5billion dollars plus now US accepted to supply 14 more f-16 block 52 to PAK so the cost goes up and if PAF goes for Venezuela f-16's then the cost goest to ~6.5billion and if u want to get MLU on them thn cost becomes ~7 billion now if u add 3 billion more to it it becomes 10 billion and u can procure Rafale in that price

Above all why would u lyk to spend on an aircraft which is full of embargoes?

 

[Frankenstein]

and there aren't many other options for PAF, other then J11. Gripen, Typhoon are too expensive at the moment, so IMO until 2012-2015 we sud go for more f16s and JF17s, and After 2015 J10Bs..........

 

[pak-yes]

F-16s i bet Pakistan would be the last nation to retire them in 2080.

 

[Frankenstein]

^^^We will retire them after acquiring Fifth Gen J-xx

 

[pak-yes]

^^^And when will we Acquire Fifth Gen J-XX