Should Pakistan deploy their forces in Iraq & Syria to protect Holy sites?

[Owl of Abott]

we don,t have money for these operations,and we shouldn,t deploy any forces as iraq and syria don,t need us now because they are defeating the rebels.

 

[al-Hasani]

Both the Arab world (at least certain Arab countries) and Pakistan have their problems to look after. As do all Muslim countries. Help is always appreciated (to friends and non-friends) but both parties must fix their own mess first before they can think about helping the other party. Only those whose fundament is in order can and should help.

Najaf, Karbala is and will probably be safe anyway. No other than the Syrians, Libyans and Iraqis can fix their own problems likewise with Pakistanis. Outside help or not.

Pakistan better look inwards. A country like Syria would not be able to repay any help either for instance before a long time in the future.

My two cents.

 

[FaujHistorian]

....

Pakistan better look inwards. A country like Syria would not be able to repay any help either for instance before a long time in the future.

Brother,

Do you know the population of Pakistan? I am sure you do.

but more importantly, do you know the capacity of Pakistan to develop and add more Modern Western oriented soldiers to its military?

It is IMMENSE!

I disagree with you respectfully.

Pakistan got to its current state because it "looked inwards" during Gulf war-1 to 2011.

during these terrible years, we had weak civilian leaders (that is always weak due to its Islamo-socialist nature) but we had Islamist leadership within army top ranks.

Fortunately all of them are retired and gone now.

And we have strong military leadership, and you will see that Islamist militants will be routed out.

However I do agree that a combined front of gulf countries and Pakistan can rid many of the lawlessness gripping Middle East.

So please quit beaing fearful of islamists like ISIS

They are bunch of goons who are only good in front of demoralized and corrupt military leadership of Iraq and Syria.

 

[al-Hasani]

@FaujHistorian

Bro, what I meant was that Pakistan should not engage in too grand projects when work is needed to be done back home. No responsible country should do that.

 

[ozzy22]

I'm surprised that Egypt doesn't play a more active role in the Middle East. They have the biggest Arab population and the strongest military in the Middle East.

 

[al-Hasani]

I'm surprised that Egypt doesn't play a more active role in the Middle East. They have the biggest Arab population and the strongest military in the Middle East.

They just had years of turmoil and the economy is very weak and what can we really expect them to do? Go to war with Israel when nobody in the Muslim world is willing to do so?

Go to war with Israel and risk sanctions when already in a crippling position economically speaking? When they are dealing with insurgency in Sinai etc.?

Hamas and Egypt do not have the best of relations either.

I think that people need to realize how big a support Israel has from every power out there be it USA, Western Europe, RUSSIA or even China. That they are a nuclear power etc.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@FaujHistorian

Bro, what I meant was that Pakistan should not engage in too grand projects when work is needed to be done back home. No responsible country should do that.

From Pakistani military pov, this is not a "grand military project" we are talking about.

Please familiarize yourself with the martial traditions of northern half of today's Pakistan.

Today we can easily spare 2 divisions of army for Iraq/Syria.

And in the process bring badly needed peace to the ordinary masses.

I do not blame you for your stance.

Saudi Arabia is 1/10th or so of Pakistan (round numbers)

and Saudi military capacity is even smaller when it comes to deployable modern soldiers at one given point.


Case in point. only 3000 KSA soldier have been deployed on iraq border, when we really need around 10-15 K.

Plus KSA lacks diversity in its military. Shia officers are tiny tiny percentage.

but for Iraq and Syria, we need an army that is diverse and could handle both Shia and Sunni population without appearing sectarian.


Hope you understand.

 

[al-Hasani]

@FaujHistorian

I think that you are too optimistic. Engaging in the hugely complicated wars that are Syria and Iraq (nobody has interfered directly for a reason) would cost a lot and take up a lot of resources when Pakistan has its problems to deal with. I am not saying that it is impossible it's just not worth it.

Let the Arabs deal with it, specifically the Syrians, Iraqis and Libyans. Those are internal struggles.

 

[ozzy22]

They just had years of turmoil and the economy is very weak and what can we really expect them to do? Go to war with Israel when nobody in the Muslim world is willing to do so?

Go to war with Israel and risk sanctions when already in a crippling position economically speaking? When they are dealing with insurgency in Sinai etc.?

Hamas and Egypt do not have the best of relations either.

I think that people need to realize how big a support Israel has from every power out there be it USA, Western Europe, RUSSIA or even China. That they are a nuclear power etc.

I wasn't talking about Israel but Syria and Iraq but I understand your point.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@FaujHistorian

I think that you are too optimistic. Engaging in the hugely complicated wars that are Syria and Iraq (nobody has interfered directly for a reason) would cost a lot and take up a lot of resources when Pakistan has its problems to deal with. I am not saying that it is impossible it's just not worth it.

Let the Arabs deal with it, specifically the Syrians, Iraqis and Libyans. Those are internal struggles.

Arabs have been HUGE failure in modern military terms.

Modern wars have changed since WW-1.

I say it was a paradigm shift in the warfare.

armies fought differently before WW-1

And they fought totally different ways during and after WW-1


I hope you know that total deployable ARAB soldiers have been tiny tiny tiny during the WW-1 and WW-2.

If you read military history of the two great wars, you will find practically NO major role by Arab armies from Iraq, to Syria to Jordan to Egypt. Turks had a role in WW-1 but no Arab role as a modern fighting force.

Gorilla warfare in Hijaz? Yes.

But ZERO modern warfare soldiers.


This is why I say please familiarize with military history before posting on this thread.

This is the same suggestion to other posters as well.


Thank you.

 

[JonAsad]

Pakistan alone cant make such a move-
It has to be through some sort of organisation like OIC-
Yeah the useless not so good terrible OIC-
So lets now forget it-
OIC is busy condemning Gaza raids at the moment- i say thats more than enough based on their influence & capabilities-

 

[al-Hasani]

@FaujHistorian

What has this to do with the topic? The Arabs warfare history did not start 90 years ago but is several millennium old and one of the most impressive ones based on coquests, empires, caliphates, kingdoms, emirates etc. That is undeniable for anyone familiar with history.

That's not correct either. There have been plenty of modern wars in the Arab world. The problem is that most have been among regional countries or the main superpower (USA).

Did you forgot how the Algerians in the most heroic fashion kicked out the French? The wars of independence etc.?

The problems in CERTAIN Arab countries are due to the system, corruption and other factors that are not the topic of the discussion.

The fact still remains the same. There is a reason why no foreign country has sent troops to Syria and Iraq. Those conflicts are very complicated and can only be solved by the locals. Countries like Pakistan that have internal problems of a significant size and insurgency to deal with would be foolish to go all in when it comes to internal conflicts in the ME thousands of km away.

It will not be worth it and just drag you in another long conflict.

That's how I see it.

Anyway I am leaving the flat (World Cup final) so I will probably first be able to reply tomorrow or sometime tonight.

Cheers.

 

[F.O.X]

Instead of being Self Bringers of peace , Lets see if they ask you first ? ... isn't that logical ? ... or do you want to Air Drop a Company into a shrine & say well Get out we are protecting it .


We are so fixated on solving others problems ( Palestine,Iraq,Syria) , that we forget that we have own own share of those problems as well , that we are currently taking care of .

Can we Do it ? Yes we can
Should we do it ? ... No , not at the moment .

 

[Mujahid Memon]

There is no holy site in syria and iraq. Muslim holy sites are located only in Mecca and Medina, i.e. Khana Kaba and Masjid Nabawi.

what about
1. Karbala
2. Shrine of Hazrat Ali
3. Shrine of Hazrat Ameer Muavia
4. Shrine of sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani

Aren't these sacred places ??

 

[xenon54 out]

Why should Pakistan act as the ''Islamic Police'' i mean why should you jump in for Iraqi army who left these places?

Seriously you guys should care more about your own nations interests instead of jumping in for people who dont even care about you, you have so much things to do in your own country, fix your economy, education system, healthcare.

Nodoy will save you if you dont do it yourself.