Should Kashmir get a chance to decide their future through Referendum?

[Infinity]

No.....No no.............No.no no no.............

 

[genmirajborgza786]

My thoughts on Pakistan have evolved considerably over a period of time. At one point, i thought that maybe democracy can develop roots in Pakistan & the army be slowly pushed back into the barracks but I don't think that anymore. Your army has tasted blood (unlike the Indian army) and they seem unwilling/unable to leave it now, power has become a very powerful intoxicant. In any case after your democracy has been held hostage by just some 20000 people, no one will ever take it seriously. Some of your opposition don't care for democracy or bother about governance & it seems that your government doesn't bother or can't govern. I think the Americans understand this, they have probably decided to not expend political capital on a situation where they don't know what exactly will happen what purpose will be served by their intervention.


Kashmir is pretty much of a no-go area.I don't even think that a military person can help because anyone straying from core positions (like Musharraf did) is left pretty much to his own devices, any agreement with him will be repudiated by his successor (as done by Kayani). No one in India wants to even try for a solution anymore, preferring instead on finding ways to manage the issue.

yes but those 20,000 people are also said to have the backing of the establishment so there is a fear that if they are evacuated forcefully the army might intervene, & they are not even the main opposition, the main opposition to Nawaz is peoples party & they are firmly behind him to save democracy, this is the time for the U.S to act, the U.S can very much arm twist the establishment, on one hand they want a strong India & on the other hand they keep pumping the establishment in Pakistan weakening the civilian gov't as a result of that, what kind of an hypocrisy is this ?
if the U.S can do an Abbottabad raid, salala, drone attacks etcs
why cant they just give a "solid arm twisting" to the establishment & then it doesn't matter whether they like it or not they will have to obey willingly or unwillingly when the alternate would be too damaging,
one can taste as much blood as one wants, but once he is caged he is very much done

 

[jaunty]

Kashmir is already independent.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

India went to US? Come on ask Musshy or rather Imran now, who went to US? We never enjoyed the Uncle SAMs lobby in the history..... And we dont need US help from stopping Saint Pakistan from liberating Kashmir, because u know y?


Planned in London? I guess that explains a lot.... I feel what U are suggesting is closer to logical outcome....

yup, Imran khan ,qadri, & chaudhry brother's ( army party) met in London & planned this movement to weaken democracy in Pakistan, on top of that qadri is a Canadian citizen ! who flew over from Canada to Pakistan for this dharna, why did the british gov't allowed them ? ,why dint the Canadian gov't not stopped him ? are some of the most disturbing questions , how did the west allowed this to progress Imran khan even collected donation on an live event from London for this movement of his !

 

[Bang Galore]

yes but those 20,000 people are also said to have the backing of the establishment so there is a fear that if they are evacuated forcefully the army might intervene, & they are not even the main opposition, the main opposition to Nawaz is peoples party & they are firmly behind him to save democracy, this is the time for the U.S to act, the U.S can very much arm twist the establishment, on one hand they want a strong India & on the other hand they keep pumping the establishment in Pakistan weakening the civilian gov't as a result of that, what kind of an hypocrisy is this ?
if the U.S can do an Abbottabad raid, salala, drone attacks etcs
why cant they just give a "solid arm twisting" to the establishment & then it doesn't matter whether they like it or not they will have to obey willingly or unwillingly when the alternate would be too damaging,
one can taste as much blood as one wants, but once he is caged he is very much done

You have an emotional investment in Pakistan but try & look at it from the perspective of a foreigner. America will get blamed anyway & the Pakistani army has learnt the art of controlling public discourse by manipulation of media. The fact that Imran Khan is not even the main opposition should actually warn any outsider about how crazy the situation is in Pakistan. The Pakistani army cannot be arm twisted beyond a certain point. What they see as their absolute interest, they will not move on, regardless of what the US does. It is why I say that they have tasted blood, they are not about to go into a cage easily. 20 years of continuous civilian rule might have done it but Imran Khan & his followers (including many here) simply don't care about the means or the damage to institutions. I can understand Imran Khan's position, he is not getting younger but that so many of his supporters who are educated seem simply to have no interest in democracy, only in the power that can be obtained by hook or crook is sad. There are many in India who feel the same way but the institutions here are extremely strong and therefore it doesn't matter. The US has seen the mess that democracy caused in the ME, they are not as enamoured of it now to wade in fully in support of NS or anyone else.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Balochistan is irrelevant to this discussion. Get back on topic or warnings will follow.

Besides Balochistan is not Kashmir, it's not a disputed territory and the calls for independence are no way near as widespread.

 

[SrNair]

View attachment 62438

p.s.

I think Kashmir's case is pretty strong here, they too deserve to decide their future..

UN must implement its decision of referendum in Kashmir.

So I say Yes, they should get a chance.

p.s. If you are answering No, then also explain why not? what other possible solution do you suggest?

..

I dont think so.
Scotland Referendum conducted after 307 years interval.
Well India got independence after 1947 means 67 years.

So we can think about a refrendum after 250 years.That is the best time.

That unfortunately is the bottomline for the separatists and their fanboys.

Oh btw - do you know Mirwaiz was pelted with stones when he tried giving a speech on Army's mishandling?

Pakistanis often claim Kashmir as the unfinished business of Partition. That's the communal State policy (since partition was itself was communal!)

But it was unfair that in 1947, only Muslims were asked if they wished to separate. The Hindus were not consulted if they wanted to stay united or not! If a referendum is done, let's do one for all of India and Pakistan as well by the same logic? It's not too far-fetched. East West Germany, North South Yemen etc did get united. Why not do a referendum and get over with it?

If not, then at least let all Indians (who have invested money, shed blood and cried and labored over Kashmir) also have a vote? They certainly have done more for Kashmir than Geelani and his cohorts.

On the other hand, if Muslim majority is the only logic (as it is) then why not hold a referendum in Western UP, North Kerala, parts of West Bengal, Southern Assam, Hyderabad, etc? Why should they be discriminated? They are also as Muslim as a Dar or a Butt(converted from Dhar and Bhatt) of Kashmir. They should also be given the choice of not only joining Pakistan but carry the land along as well!

The whole idea is hilarious, to say the least.

You are right my friend.
Some of idiots in Northern Kerala asked for a separate states.

 

[Sam Manekshaw]

so that is the excuse. well if money is the thing that give u the right of oppression . we all should have stayed under british. THey are more organised and rich ....

who said that?
And about RIGHT OF OPPRESSION: i think china will answer you.
who said Kashmir ppl r oppressed?

 

[raja hindustani]

Referendum will not happen because for every Indian, Kashmir is an integral part of India. If any ruling party decides to conduct referendum they will be committing political suicide. Only way for kashmir to be 'azad' is by force and India is too strong militarily for that.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

You have an emotional investment in Pakistan but try & look at it from the perspective of a foreigner. America will get blamed anyway & the Pakistani army has learnt the art of controlling public discourse by manipulation of media. The fact that Imran Khan is not even the main opposition should actually warn any outsider about how crazy the situation is in Pakistan. The Pakistani army cannot be arm twisted beyond a certain point. What they see as their absolute interest, they will not move on, regardless of what the US does. It is why I say that they have tasted blood, they are not about to go into a cage easily. 20 years of continuous civilian rule might have done it but Imran Khan & his followers (including many here) simply don't care about the means or the damage to institutions. I can understand Imran Khan's position, he is not getting younger but that so many of his supporters who are educated seem simply to have no interest in democracy, only in the power that can be obtained by hook or crook is sad. There are many in India who feel the same way but the institutions here are extremely strong and therefore it doesn't matter. The US has seen the mess that democracy caused in the ME, they are not as enamoured of it now to wade in fully in support of NS or anyone else.

true that, its sad really especially for a country of its size, location & resources being wasted in this nonsensical confrontational ideologue is nothing less then a tragedy , but now enough is enough, we rather have a post world war japan then to bare the weight of the establishment every thing has its limit
you know the perfect word to describe the present situation in Islamabad is where as the last time, there was an external version of this in 1999, this time around it is the internal version of "kargil"

 

[Jzaib]

who said that?
And about RIGHT OF OPPRESSION: i think china will answer you.
who said Kashmir ppl r oppressed?

well if they were happy they wouldnt be chanting go indians go .. they dnt pelt stone at police and soilders, they dnt raise the flags of enemy country in provincial capital, they dnt cheer enemy country victory in supports .. all of these incidents show how happy they are .. that is why u have most of ur army stationed in one province .

 

[Sam Manekshaw]

Balochistan is irrelevant to this discussion. Get back on topic or warnings will follow.

Besides Balochistan is not Kashmir, it's not a disputed territory and the calls for independence are no way near as widespread.

Ukraine was not disputed land.....If you think Kashmir is disputed then comparing it with Ukraine situation is wrong according to yr logic...and if you think Ukraine and Kashmir is on same page then you have no right to speak in India's internal matter by the same logic you think we don't have any right to speak on Baluchistan issue.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Ukraine was not disputed land.....If you think Kashmir is disputed then comparing it with Ukraine situation is wrong according to yr logic...and if you think Ukraine and Kashmir is on same page then you have no right to speak in India's internal matter by the same logic you think we don't have any right to speak on Baluchistan issue.

You're assuming my stance on Ukraine, which I haven't given. Balochistan is entirely irrelevant, neither Ukraine nor Kashmir has anything of the sort as to what the actual problem in Balochistan is. Now, enough discussion off topic.

You have the right to argue whether you think there should be no referendum, not to drag in other topics which I've specifically asked you not to.

 

[Sam Manekshaw]

well if they were happy they wouldnt be chanting go indians go .. they dnt pelt stone at police and soilders, they dnt raise the flags of enemy country in provincial capital, they dnt cheer enemy country victory in supports .. all of these incidents show how happy they are .. that is why u have most of ur army stationed in one province .

you know why we have such large army in that region....U should blame yourself for this situation of Kashmiri ppl.... for an example In such flood situation still these terrorist (whom u refer as freedom fighter) are infiltrating.

 

[Bang Galore]

you know the perfect word to describe the present situation in Islamabad is where as the last time, there was an external version of this in 1999, this time its the internal version of "kargil"

That is actually spot on. Very sharp.