Should India be looking at abandoned Russian blueprints?

[angeldemon_007]

I liked what China did with Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag. We could try something like that also. Russia is best for this, because Russia has many such projects. Not just in naval but also in other sector.

We could also ask for Mikoyan LMFS design for our AMCA.
Project 1153 OREL(75-80,000 tons displacement, 70 aircrafts)


There are some abandoned projects of US also. We could also take a look at them.

 

[faithfulguy]

indegenous effort will take more time and wont probably produce something as good...
look at LCA....

obviously new tech has become available...and that may be incorporated

Totally agree with you. With the current technological level, India is not ready to develop indigenous weapons such as fighter planes and tanks "efficiently". India is better off just buy the whole plane from abroad. Efficiently in this regard would be to build something without constant shifts and requirements and be able to induct the weapon in a timely fashion. So India should focus on research but buy foreign weapons in the near future.

 

[sancho]

Buying Russian blueprints may be a good way for countries with developing defence industries to bring themselves up to speed.
A case in point would be the obvious mig 1.44 influence on the j-20.

Anyways, what i wanted to focuss on was the IAC3.
Should India consider buying plans of the Ulyanovsk from Russia?
Soviet aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
i'd say it's definitely something to look at.

85k ton displacement
70 aircraft (~40 fixed wing)

load this babe with f-35s and navalised pakfas...and you got SOME platform

No, because that's an old design and as you can see has still a ramp from which the fighters will take off, while the catapult was more needed for the AEW aircaft. IAC1 was developed with consultancy of Italian shipyards, but they don't have experience with CATOBAR layouts, which means if we search for an consultancy partner again, it should be DCNS, BAE, or like recent news says as well, US counterparts.

 

[jagjitnatt]

It is a very good idea and I have proposed the same on other forums. India should be buying technology and blueprints from all over the world, specially countries like Russia which are our allies and financially in a turmoil.

It will give a head start to our engineers and we will be able to start with a base and improve on existing designs rather than creating something from scratch. It will speed up our manufacturing abilities a lot.

 

[silentinksoldier]

It is a very good idea and I have proposed the same on other forums. India should be buying technology and blueprints from all over the world, specially countries like Russia which are our allies and financially in a turmoil.

It will give a head start to our engineers and we will be able to start with a base and improve on existing designs rather than creating something from scratch. It will speed up our manufacturing abilities a lot.

True...we've got to take shortcuts if we need to catch up....almost everyone did......

right now, if we make something from scratch, it takes like 30 years...and we get pathetic excuses.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

This is definitely a good idea, provided the original design is not obselete yet. But, keeping in mind that it is a Super Heavy ACC, there is a draw back. u wont be able to find any international buyers for such a huge thing, considering the business point of it. There aren't many countries that need or can afford this. Wouldn't it be better if u get Blue Prints of something else that u require in greater numbers for ur armed forces and u could also find customers for? just thinking??

but if its strictly for domestic use, i guess its ok. I agree that defence capabilities consideration must be the prime motive. Even then so, what will be the manufacturing and operational expense difference?

 

[jha]

We can certainly get some boost in Submarine manufacturing by the blueprints..

 

[silentinksoldier]

This is definitely a good idea, provided the original design is not obselete yet. But, keeping in mind that it is a Super Heavy ACC, there is a draw back. u wont be able to find any international buyers for such a huge thing, considering the business point of it. There aren't many countries that need or can afford this. Wouldn't it be better if u get Blue Prints of something else that u require in greater numbers for ur armed forces and u could also find customers for? just thinking??

but if its strictly for domestic use, i guess its ok. I agree that defence capabilities consideration must be the prime motive. Even then so, what will be the manufacturing and operational expense difference?

we dont want buyers....this will be our power projection instuments.....with such weapons, we may go into the south china sea....thus distracting them from trying to control the indian ocean

 

[silentinksoldier]

also...this is purely for national security..not commerce....we need at least 5 CBGs ourselves...so exports aint happening for 15 years approx..
we WILL need to replace the gorshkov maybe.....

 

[Skull and Bones]

also...this is purely for national security..not commerce....we need at least 5 CBGs ourselves...so exports aint happening for 15 years approx..
we WILL need to replace the gorshkov maybe.....

Gorshkov is going to stay in service for another 30 years or so, thinking of replacing it now sounds funny.
and maintaining a nuclear powered aircraft carrier is a cumbersome job and doesn't worth it, coz' IN is not going to exert its influence in far-off territories.....just my point of view

 

[silentinksoldier]

Gorshkov is going to stay in service for another 30 years or so, thinking of replacing it now sounds funny.
and maintaining a nuclear powered aircraft carrier is a cumbersome job and doesn't worth it, coz' IN is not going to exert its influence in far-off territories.....just my point of view

true...maybe...depends on some stuff....but my bad


i would like to differ on the power projection thing
we should get into that business...

i firmly believe we should keep a carrier near the south china sea area...

offense is the best defence

 

[angeldemon_007]

No, because that's an old design and as you can see has still a ramp from which the fighters will take off, while the catapult was more needed for the AEW aircaft. IAC1 was developed with consultancy of Italian shipyards, but they don't have experience with CATOBAR layouts, which means if we search for an consultancy partner again, it should be DCNS, BAE, or like recent news says as well, US counterparts.

Well, IAC2 is not that far behind. Also there are a couple of more designs. Just look at the Varyag AC and see what Chinese have done with it. I am just saying, during Soviet Era, Russians have made some really nasty things which were way ahead of their time.
But you are right, there are few very great designs from DCNS and BAE and not to mention the new generation of US AC (although they are too heavy for us).

also...this is purely for national security..not commerce....we need at least 5 CBGs ourselves...

i firmly believe we should keep a carrier near the south china sea area...

offense is the best defence

I don't think we are gonna have more than 3 AC at a time. Well at least for coming 1.5 decade we will be operating 3 ACs. India never had an offensive policy.

 

[Skull and Bones]

true...maybe...depends on some stuff....but my bad


i would like to differ on the power projection thing
we should get into that business...

i firmly believe we should keep a carrier near the south china sea area...

offense is the best defence

carriers are most vulnerable in these cases, destroyers and subs with long range missiles are fit for this job.
And we should not play this card unless and until China does something similar.

 

[khatarnak gunda]

indegenous effort will take more time and wont probably produce something as good...
look at LCA....

obviously new tech has become available...and that may be incorporated

though i believe that yours may be a good idea but here i disagree with you. i think what you are comparing is wrong.

india started designing, building and operating indigenous war ships decades back. some are now retiring too. lca has just got ioc recently. whereas we have tremendous capability is ship designing and building. we have started buidling shivalik class ships now.

IN is a builders navy since long. so you should not compare our warships with lca.

lca is designed by ADA (DRDO). on the contrary, our ships are being designed by directorate of naval design, governed by indian navy itself.

on the other hand, directorate of naval design has already generated design of some ships now whose construction is not even started yet. our shipyards are full of orders. directorate of naval design has enough time to design our own carrier iac2 or 3. time is no matter.

directorate of naval design is designing really good stuff which is much cheaper costwise still at par in quality with other warships in the world.

why to pay much more for the work which you can do by your own?

suppose we have purchased these designs and blueprints now. where will you build a carrier? in which shipyard? india do not have any shipyard which can build that big ship except cochi shipyard which is building iac1 at present.

one more thing, do we really need 80k carrier. i thin 50-60k is more than enough to fulfill our needs. please keep distance between what you need and what you want.

imho, directorate of naval design does have enough skills to design ships and carrier now. and they are doing best.

 

[baker]

why we need to go for abandoned russian blue print...
what i will suggest sill try to co-operate with existing and active russian ventures and develop paralley like we are doing for Brahmos..

and considering the navy procurements i think we are going in a right direction with several indeginious projects are happening at the same time... like IAC2 , Shivaik class frigates.. arihant subs... etc