Should discussion be allowed on questions raised by Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza?

[Areesh]

He meant khyzer/Poseidon/paani vala peer/saint ------ I think George? but not sure .an immortal fellow who gives regular visits to a vast group of ahnaf ------.

What the f&ck you are talking about?

I am a hanafi and I am learning about this guy for the first time in my life. Never heard about him from any hanfi scholar

If you guys are lying at least lie that makes some sense

And my response to you was the compilation 'in book form' yes it was done during Khulfa's time. 'Tarteeb' (sequencing) was done by Prophet PBUH, Khulfa compiled in One book for distribution. Maybe you didn't fully comprehend my first respond! A lot of people actually believe that tarteeb was done by Khulfa-e-Rashideen as well!

I have utmost respect for Khulfa-e-Rashideen and all our mothers (Prophet's wives).

Good to hear the bold part

Where is this recorded or someone told you?

Give the name of the Brelvi book with page number or post the scans here. I want to read such a retraction that everyone seems to have missed ... His Will (in the form of book published by his son) says no such thing .. instead the opposite!

I was talking about fatwa by scholars of hijaz against Deobandi scholars

Today deobandi scholars are respected and followed all over arab and Muslim world

Mosquito has everyone rattled ... he doesn't spare anyone, exposing their false and fabricated beliefs from their own literature.

Good

Now ask that mosque to sit in front of a scholar instead of disappearing for 48 hours next time

 

[Verve]

No. He says Qadianis believe in Quran while they do not believe in Quran in its real sense. Rejecting one verse of Quran is equal to rejecting all of Quran. So you and your self proclaimed scholar Engineer is misleading everyone here by claiming Qadianis believe in Quran when they do not.

Also Chrsitans and Jews are better than Qadianis since they do not mislead other muslims by calling themselves as muslims while all of them are kafirs.

When you do not believe in final prophethood then you do not believe in prophet no matter how many times you declare you believe in prophet. On the top of this you deceit other muslims by calling themselves as muslims.

Initially you rejected that Engineer Ali has called Qadianis better than Jews and Chrsitians and when I showed his video, now you are defending him.

You used the word 'better' .. as said before, that was misquoting and misleading. Had you quoted him exactly where he said that Christians and Jews are 'baray' (higher ranking) kafir than Qadyanis, I would not have disputed it. You didn't even bother adding 'kafir' in your first statement, you just said 'he says they are better than' ... misleading and poor debating by making your own quote and presenting as another's. Stop the manipulation.

My views on Qadyanis are clear, even before I started listening to Engineer.

Good

Now ask that mosque to sit in front of a scholar instead of disappearing for 48 hours next time

He has offered to do this on Live tv with ulemas of all sects .. why are your ulema not taking up his offer? Why are your ulema only insisting YouTube video competition ... go on LIVE TV then!

He didn't disappear .. his condition of 1-1 debate was not met. That Deobandi molvi wanted to meet with his group of movis instead of 1-1 with 1 camera man only.

 

[Verve]

What the f&ck you are talking about?

I am a hanafi and I am learning about this guy for the first time in my life. Never heard about him from any hanfi scholar

If you guys are lying at least lie that makes some sense

You are a Hanafi by name only .. you don't seem to know. Khyzer in Hanafi sect is a forever living saint type person who interacted with Sahaba and many so called Buzurg .. heck being an ex-Hanafi, I knew that .. where have you been living? Btw, same Khyzer as the one Musa AS met and story is in Quran and Hadith.

Let me test your Hanafism ... What did Imam Hanifa say about Aqeeqa (sacrifice of animal at birth of a child)?

 

[Sal12]

You used the word 'better' .. as said before, that was misquoting and misleading. Had you quoted him exactly where he said that Christians and Jews are 'baray' (higher ranking) kafir than Qadyanis, I would not have disputed it. You didn't even bother adding 'kafir' in your first statement, you just said 'he says they are better than' ... misleading and poor debating by making your own quote and presenting as another's. Stop the manipulation.

My views on Qadyanis are clear, even before I started listening to Engineer.


He has offered to do this on Live tv with ulemas of all sects .. why are your ulema not taking up his offer? Why are your ulema only insisting YouTube video competition ... go on LIVE TV then!

Stop misleading everyone here. The whole point of the Engineer Ali was that Qadianis are better (less kafir) than Chrsiitans and jews because Qadianis at least believe in prophet while Christians and jews do not. I never said Engineer Ali is pronouncing Qadianis as muslims.

My point is that Qadianis do not believe in prophet and quran since they do not believe in what quran and prophet says. Your scholar Engineer also believe that Qadianis believe in Quran and prophet and see how wrong he is.

This is Engineer Ali who is twisting things in favour of qadianis and you as a blind follower of him are willing to take every shit of him.

 

[I.R.A]

I am a hanafi and I am learning about this guy for the first time in my life. Never heard about him from any hanfi scholar

If you guys are lying at least lie that makes some sense

Khizer is the name given to the person who Musa Peace be upon met ............. Surah 18 verse 60 onwards. (His name though is not mentioned in Quran).

 

[Verve]

I have a question related to this.

Why does Quran call itself Kitab then? If it wasn't in book form, then why Almighty called it Kitab right at the start of Second Surah and multiple times?

And if Quran wasn't given a book form during life of Muhammad Peace be upon him, then how can you argue with Jews and Christians that they altered their books?

How is written Quran verified? How did the Prophet PBUH do it?

And what is the point of arguing with Jews and Christians on this? That's just a pointless debate with those who are not interested in knowing what Allah says in Quran. Give them a copy of Quran with translation and leave it to Allah. You delivered the Message and that's all you are duty bound to do, nothing more!

Stop misleading everyone here. The whole point of the Engineer Ali was that Qadianis are better (less kafir) than Chrsiitans and jews because Qadianis at least believe in prophet while Christians and jews do not. I never said Engineer Ali is pronouncing Qadianis as muslims.

My point is that Qadianis do not believe in prophet and quran since they do not believe in what quran and prophet says. Your scholar Engineer also believe that Qadianis believe in Quran and prophet and see how wrong he is.

This is Engineer Ali who is twisting things in favour of qadianis and you as a blind follower of him are willing to take every shit of him.

Let me ask you - do you believe that you can still marry a Christian or Jew woman? They are Ahle-Kitab but they are Kafir too .. can you marry a Kafir?

Look around at sects and ask yourself this ... how many actually believe in and act as per this Aya?

 

[Sal12]

How is written Quran verified? How did the Prophet PBUH do it?

And what is the point of arguing with Jews and Christians on this? That's just a pointless debate with those who are not interested in knowing what Allah says in Quran. Give them a copy of Quran with translation and leave it to Allah. You delivered the Message and that's all you are duty bound to do, nothing more!


Let me ask you - do you believe that you can still marry a Christian or Jew woman? They are Ahle-Kitab but they are Kafir too .. can you marry a Kafir?

Look around at sects and ask yourself this ... how many actually believe in and act as per this Aya?

Not relevant to the discussion.

Summary is Engineer Ali believes that Qadianis believes in Prophet which makes them better or less kafir than Jews and christains which is not true. Qadianis do not believe in Prophet and Quran since they do not believe in what quran and prophet says so qadianis are kafir.

Another point is that since qadians call themselves as muslims and deceit other muslims in name of Islam and they actually try to change the basis of Islam in the name of islam too, this makes them worse than jews and christians.

 

[Mentee]

What the f&ck you are talking about?

Profanities aren't permissible in religion .

Well iam surprised to know you are not familiar with the set of myths Ahnaf particularly brelvis follows in indo-pak region but it's not limited to muslims only Greeks and subsequent christian converts also had/have a liking for this fellow .

Sadka gosht parhai ki v roti daal etc paani m ku phaynki jaati hai?

Khizer is the name given

Sir g yeh name kis sy ny dia ?

 

[El Sidd]

Mods act on everything if reported even of someone is sneezing..so better just make it easy and keep it locked

Let me help since you once called me your teacher.

Nawaz Sharif PML daur hota to forum per qanoon ki baladasti hoti.

Also why the use of Engineer as a prefix like doctors? This is promoting class based society which is something the region is constantly at war with for human development.

 

[Areesh]

You are a Hanafi by name only .. you don't seem to know. Khyzer in Hanafi sect is a forever living saint type person who interacted with Sahaba and many so called Buzurg .. heck being an ex-Hanafi, I knew that .. where have you been living? Btw, same Khyzer as the one Musa AS met and story is in Quran and Hadith.

Let me test your Hanafism ... What did Imam Hanifa say about Aqeeqa (sacrifice of animal at birth of a child)?

And khyzer is an important figure for hanafis?

I literally search about Khyzer and his importance in hanafi fiqah and found absolutely nothing. He is that important for hanafis

If you want to defend that fraud engineer you are welcome to do it but don't invent things from your own and then paste those lies on others

Anyway since according to you he is that important person for hanafis that every hanafi should know him then please share at least 3 articles from internet that talk about importance of khyzer for hanafis

I would be waiting for those three articles. Ignoring your moronic test for now

Profanities aren't permissible in religion .

Well iam surprised to know you are not familiar with the set of myths Ahnaf particularly brelvis follows in indo-pak region but it's not limited to muslims only Greeks and subsequent christian converts also had/have a liking for this fellow .

Sadka gosht parhai ki v roti daal etc paani m ku phaynki jaati hai?

You are trying to paste acts done by some jahil awam on all the ahle sunnah. All the top schools of thought condemn such acts of jahaliyah. Nobody believes that khyzer comes and meet hanafis etc etc

These are all lies

Khizer is the name given to the person who Musa Peace be upon met ............. Surah 18 verse 60 onwards. (His name though is not mentioned in Quran).

I know him

Just wanted to bust lies some people are attributing to hanafis using him

 

[Areesh]

He has offered to do this on Live tv with ulemas of all sects .. why are your ulema not taking up his offer? Why are your ulema only insisting YouTube video competition ... go on LIVE TV then!

He didn't disappear .. his condition of 1-1 debate was not met. That Deobandi molvi wanted to meet with his group of movis instead of 1-1 with 1 camera man only.

Online TV with scholars of all sects?? Who is he exactly??

When he asked maulana tariq masood to come to jehlum he didn't said that he wanted to do it online on TV. This is just an excuse by that fraud to run away from sitting in front of a scholar

Now he wants to sit on live TV. Then he would say that it should be done in Pakistani parliament. Then he would say it should be done in United Nations

We don't have time for this bullshit

Maulana tariq masood went all the way to jhelum to talk to that clown but he hide in his hole for hole for 48 hours and was not even able to upload a small clip of 30 seconds in those 48 hours

First teach your engineer Arabic. He can't even recite Quran properly and wants to debate scholars of all sects


And our scholars are ready for debate with this charlatan anywhere anytime. Just get your guru ready to not hide for 48 hours next time

 

[Mentee]

You are trying to paste acts done by some jahil awam on all the ahle sunnah. All the top schools of thought condemn such acts of jahaliyah. Nobody believes that khyzer comes and meet hanafis etc etc

These are all lies

Deibandi ahnaf may have their own mythical spiritual beings but the majority of indo pak ahnaf like brealvis do consider khizar's metaphysical role in shaping their spirituality. I've been listening fairy tales about this fellow since childhood.

 

[alee92nawaz]

That was not happening when you were stressing on Ahmed Raza Khan fatwa on Deobandis

Calling others zealots is going to work when you are one yourself

My point was that these mullahs can do anything to each other or say anything. I didn't call them kafirs. You on the other hand labelled shias as rafzis etc. Also I'm not in this forum to please you or agree to you. Good day.

 

[Mentee]

You are right. But also, the way we pray five times a day will not change with time.

I'll give you a famous example of how Deobandi school of thought keeps progressing. Suppose a woman's husband goes on a journey and does not return. The original position of Ahnaf is that the wife must wait till such time that the husband WOULD HAVE turned 90 years and according to some 120 years. Given the situation in modern times, Deobandi scholars have performed Rujoo' from this position and instead adopted the Maliki position (as far as my knowledge goes).

This rule seems to be derived keeping in view the prevalent pagan male chauvinism ------. I mean seriously? This goes not only against the Sharia but also against the Devine Law which sits atop Sharia .care to inform us how many generations of women among the ahnaf suffered due to this rule ?

 

[CriticalThought]

@CriticalThought - watch this as an example.

Thank you very much. This is exactly what I was looking for, so May Allah Grant you Many Rewards. I can see why this is causing confusion amongst people. Now, the video itself refers to an entire host of topics, and it further refers to another video, which then refers to another video. It will take me multiple posts to cover even a subset of the topics that have been touched.

So let us start with Kashf, and the incident of Hazrat Umar May Allah Be Pleased with him. He basically refers to this video:

and tries to disprove the Riwayah (narration) as being Dhaif or Mursal, and even refers to another so called scholar to support his claim:

Now, I ask my readers, how much do you understand the Science of Hadith? How much do you understand Asma ur Rijal? Are you even in the position to determine if this claim of Tadlees makes the Riwayah Da'if?

The fact of the matter is that Mr. Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza has only quoted from two books. This Riwayah occurs in one of the most authentic books of history amongst Ahl-us-Sunnah Wa Al-Jama'ah: Al Bidaya Wa An Nihayah. Please read for yourself:

So the esteemed Islamic scholar Ibn-Kathir Rahimahullah, who has also written the renown Tafseer Ibn-e-Kathir, is saying one of the chain of narrations is Hasan and Jayyid, and some of these Turq are supporting each other, yet Mr. Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza wants to deny it based on an article written by somebody else? What is the standing of Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza on the matter of Sihat-ul-Hadith, or determining the veracity of Hadith or Riwayat? And why do you blindly follow him and his judgement?

Insha Allah, in my next post, I will show you even further problems with what he has said.