Should Arabic be replaced with Urdu for Mosque sermons in Pakistan ??

[forcetrip]

So wouldnt it be better if the madrassahs stopped teaching quran and started teaching arabic first? Or is there a way to climb the ladder from the top?

 

[shuntmaster]

Just curious to know.. Do Shia's have sermons in Arabic? What language do their scriptures follow?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Well I've seen that in Peshawar first in arabic then in urdu.

Most don't know Quran must be read with understanding, that is the interpretation of the translation of The Holy Quran must be read in order to understand what The Quran says unfortunately 75+% Muslims don't understand.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Shia read same Quran along with their own books God knows..

 

[PashtunPak]

interesting question

 

[Luftwaffe]

Wow someone was going offensive at webmaster where did he go? lol

 

[Al Bhatti]

So wouldnt it be better if the madrassahs stopped teaching quran and started teaching arabic first? Or is there a way to climb the ladder from the top?

Actually if you learn the traditional Arabic (proper Arabic or العربية الفصحى which is the Arabic used in quran and used in the Arabic media: TV, Radio, and print media and taught to Arabs in their schools and universities) - not a certain dialect of Arabic - then a very big portion of the quran (if not complete) will be understood with correct meaning and tafseer without even going to a madrassah.

 

[SQ8]

So long as the only understanding a majority of people have of Islam is associated with the Arabic language, Islam can never live up to it's potential in Pakistan - Every adherent seeks to experience the Divine in his or her own terms of reference and to do this it's essential that the language, the medium of transmission, be native, the understanding it creates be native - here I mean "native" as opposed to the "alienated".

Today there is a great tragedy in Pakistan, the experience of the religion of Islam is denied to millions upon millions of people, Quran Karim, Mercy to all mankind is denied to millions because of an obscurantist ideology which seeks to keep millions in ignorance so that a minority can misrepresent and control large numbers of people.

So yes, it's important that Sermons and even Quran be in urdu -- it's understood that for those who have the time and inclination and aptitude to learn Arabic,yes, it's great to learn another language - BUT do not be confused, Quran cannot be better understood in Arabic than any other language, recall that arabic, like any human creation has undergone changes, changes in idiom, changes in the kinds of reality words create.

The word of God is the Word of God in any language, after all, does Allah really speak only Arabic, how then is Islam a universal religion?

Yet Allah chose arabic as his medium of instruction..
so the word of god as we know it.. is in arabic..
And yes.. I agree that it must be taught in Urdu.. and english.. and balochi..
But not without a reading.. a recitation.. a look.. at the original arabic form of the Quran..
To establish conformity.. otherwise.. the bible is there as an example of language hopping.. and the resulting distortions.

 

[Xeric]

Khutbas may be delivered in Urdu, Punjab, Pushto whatever. The Quran stays in Arabic, though there's no issue in translating it or printing its phonetics in any language, but then these are to be taken only as guide and assistance by those who cant read Arabic in the start. Reading the Quran or the Tilawat in Namaz should be in Arabic.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

That is an immensely difficult task to educate and teach approx. 170 million +/- Muslims in Pakistan the Arabic language. Also it may jeopardize our own culture to an extent, maybe I'm wrong.

As of now, I say simply use translation in language you best understand. There are reliable translations of the Quran. I understand one may not get 100% of the Qurans essences as some scholars suggest through reading a translation; but it's still better than nothing. Allah knew most Muslims wouldn't speak Arabic after revealing Islamic revelations in exclusively Arabic because Al Nabi Muhammad was Arab.

I dont think it would be a huge problem to educate people from Pakistan in Arabic... We already know Arabic... It just has to be brought to our conscious mind from the subconscious...

and we can keep Urdu also... Most people in Pakistan are at least bilingual anyway...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

So wouldnt it be better if the madrassahs stopped teaching quran and started teaching arabic first? Or is there a way to climb the ladder from the top?

Msny actually teach Arabic first...

 

[Kompromat]

Why is it not ok to discuss.. ???

Lets take it from a basic point of view..
Why you should not replace it.

a part of sermon is...
أما بعد أيها الناس فإن الشيطان قد يئس من أن يعبد بأرضكم هذه أبدا

part of which roughly translated into english becomes..

O my people,Beware of Satan as he has failed in his quest to lead you astray significantly..

Now if it was translated into urdu..

It would become...

Ay meray logon.. Shaitan mardood se bacho.. ye tum ko baray gumhari mein daalne se har gaya.. tu ab..

Eventually.. when it boils down to say a moulvi in Vehari..

"Sade Log, Shaitan khabees da puttar te bach.. ey tainu jani dushman si.. .. tut gayi uss nu saazish tuwadey naal.. etc (my punjabi is improvised)..

The above.. while.. bearing similarity.. is NOT what the prophet said..not word for word.. so in a way his message is distorted..
If that is the case.. then the Quran too .. should be taught in Urdu.. and in english where needed...
and eventually... there will be editions of the Quran that will not resemble any original content.
The whole Idea of the Arabic Khutba.. and the Quran.. is to convey the original message.. as it was..and is.. to Humanity.
translations.. interpretations ... are corruptible.. but original content.. verfied and protected over 1500 years.. is not.

The alternative.. ?? give a simple translation of the Khutba.. no interpretations(although with our Mullah's.. one should not be surprised if they take they liberty to do so.. out of the greed for spiritual and/or personal glory.. and the appreciative andey ka halwa gifted by those "inspired").
With that.. you maintain the delivery of the prophets original message..
and help those understand what it means to a certain extent.

Santro i do agree with you on this but you didn't quite get my point , when i say sermon i didn't mean the "pre arranged" khutba , rather i meant the part when imams talk about current society and challenges.

If you don't understand them , there is no point just listening because its wont do what its meant to do which is to make your understanding of social issues better hence making you an active part of the society.

 

[Kompromat]

Khutbas may be delivered in Urdu, Punjab, Pushto whatever. The Quran stays in Arabic, though there's no issue in translating it or printing its phonetics in any language, but then these are to be taken only as guide and assistance by those who cant read Arabic in the start. Reading the Quran or the Tilawat in Namaz should be in Arabic.

Dear sir , its good to have your opinion here , but let me clarify myself , i didn't mean presenting 100% of the Khutba in urdu and presenting translation of the Holy Quran.

What i meant was to switch the social part of the Khutba which discusses social challenges and issues to urdu -- thats all i am trying to clarify.

Thanks

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

This is a very interesting thread and my special thanks to the brother who started it... I should say I am pleasantly surprised with the comments on this thread... It shows that you guys have a very good grasp on the whole issue...

I have personal experience in this... At my location, Muslims from different countries were gathering to offer prayers but there was one thing missing... an Imam... every Friday there was a hassle about who will lead the congregation... One day they pointed their finger towards me and the secret agent that I am I obviously declined... but they would not let me go so I told them that I would prepare something the next week and deliver then...

My Khutbah the next week was one of the best speeches I have ever made in my life... there was a pin drop silence and people were as if in a trance... they got so moved by it that they made me a permanent Imam for them...

So I had to ring my pir to find out if I was doing everything right... Pir told me that there has to be a certain part of the Khutbah that has to be in Arabic but the rest of the speech can be in any language that people understand... So I learnt the minimum parts that have to be in Arabic... these are only three lines in Arabic that anyone can learn... and you can add what is called Khutbah Hajjah in the beginning...

The rest of my speech was obviously about political issues, unity amongst Muslims, current affairs, lessons from the Quran, problems faced by Muslims, issues of sects and how to overcome them, Khilafah...

After about a year, an idiot arrived in the mosque who started creating a big fuss that I was delivering the Khutbah in English and that was Haram and that I need to be kicked out (or killed I dont know)... but because of his antics I decided to step down as Imam... many people came to me after that but I told them that if my leading prayers is creating a rift and problem I should not be leading...

This is a problem with Pakistanis in particular... They want to hear a Khutbah that they do not understand... so that they dont have to correct themselves or use their brain for the purpose of Islam... just how do we solve this problem without the system of Imamate where the Caliph or Government appoints Imam at different mosque and appropriate topics are discussed every friday to raise the level of thinking of Muslims is a big question... The problem in the Arab world is that their brutal governments never allowed them to discuss anything political... Imam who defied ended up in jail or killed... this was all too common under Saddam Hussain and Gaddafi... but for Pakistan it has a totally different dynamics... This is why in a nutshell we should say to people that there is a part of Khutbah that has to be in Arabic as it was always done by the Prophet saw... but the rest of the speech can be in any language... in our country the mullahs actually do three khutbahs... the first one they do sitting down for an hour and then they stand up and repeat the same khutbah that they have been saying for the past 50 years... and the most funny bit is as follows...

The guy was causing trouble at our local mosque had issues with certain things that I was saying.. amazingly he had no issues when the same things were said in Arabic... LOL

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Dear sir , its good to have your opinion here , but let me clarify myself , i didn't mean presenting 100% of the Khutba in urdu and presenting translation of the Holy Quran.

What i meant was to switch the social part of the Khutba which discusses social challenges and issues to urdu -- thats all i am trying to clarify.

Thanks

Perfectly fine... infact in Arab countries like Egypt there are competitions about who will deliver the best Jummah Khutbah amongst the Imam of mosques... and people then decide which Khutbah they liked the best...

Our deen is so dynamic and beautiful... yet sadly we have turned it into boring stuff... many people are sleeping during the Khutbah... and it almost happened to me once also...