Shivaji ; Maharana Pratap ; Ranjeet Singh are NATIONAL LEADERS ;Akbar And Tipu Sultan are NOT

[SarthakGanguly]

You caught me entirely by surprise.

BTW, if you look carefully, within his limitations, Tipu was not a bad ruler either. Not to be compared, but he tried hard.

Why? There is nothing surprising whatsoever.

He was disastrous for only Hindus and Christians. Otherwise he was fine. Great commander. Ruthless administrator. Benevolent towards Muslims.

Muslims and Hindus have different heroes of their own religion. This is not opinion but fact. The best idea is to preserve each history and each religions people should be given responsibility to protect and promote their cultural/religious artifacts. Nothing should be imposed on the other. Let Hindus call Tipu a villain. He is our hero and their villain very much like Rana Sanga and Maharana Pratap are hindu heroes. The idea of history, especially religious is that people view it with their own different eyes and colour history with their own perception. Freedom to believe what they want is a crux of the entire debate.

It doesn't affect us the slightest if Tipu is called a villain. Similarly it should not affect the Hindus if the Pala, Chalukya and other Indian dynasties are seen negatively by muslims. The problem arises from our refusal to accept these differences in followers of religions different thoughts.

Yup. Fair point. We have different heroes. We are different people. We have different or rather opposite villains.

 

[[Bregs]]

Why? There is nothing surprising whatsoever.

He was disastrous for only Hindus and Christians. Otherwise he was fine. Great commander. Ruthless administrator. Benevolent towards Muslims.


Yup. Fair point. We have different heroes. We are different people. We have different or rather opposite villains.

why tipu rule is being opposed now ? i know akbar is not included because mughals were invaders but why tipu ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why? There is nothing surprising whatsoever.

He was disastrous for only Hindus and Christians. Otherwise he was fine. Great commander. Ruthless administrator. Benevolent towards Muslims.


Yup. Fair point. We have different heroes. We are different people. We have different or rather opposite villains.

Presumably you are referring to Tipu Sultan. What you have supposed is not true. A detailed reading, or readings will reveal that.

It is amusing that British vilification of their arch-enemy has been picked up by the religious right, and strutted from the rooftops.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Presumably you are referring to Tipu Sultan. What you have supposed is not true. A detailed reading, or readings will reveal that.

It is amusing that British vilification of their arch-enemy has been picked up by the religious right, and strutted from the rooftops.

Could you provide more details on the bolded part, Joe?

 

[arp2041]

I think Aurangzeb is also Misunderstood.......

& Akbar is Overunderstood.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Could you provide more details on the bolded part, Joe?

The British had a vested interest in projecting their campaign against Mysore as a liberation campaign. There was no tar too oily, no cruelty too horrifying nothing that was barred.

On the other hand, the visceral hatred of the religious right for any Muslim ruler makes them hate Tipu too. What could be more natural than to take the caustic portraits of the British and apply for them.

 

[Hindustani78]

Akbar i disagree TIpu

What about Bahudar Shah Zafar who is buried in Rangoon ?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

They're all leaders in different times in the past. Bhakt should stop irritating us with such nonsense.

Muslims and Hindus have different heroes of their own religion. This is not opinion but fact. The best idea is to preserve each history and each religions people should be given responsibility to protect and promote their cultural/religious artifacts. Nothing should be imposed on the other. Let Hindus call Tipu a villain. He is our hero and their villain very much like Rana Sanga and Maharana Pratap are hindu heroes. The idea of history, especially religious is that people view it with their own different eyes and colour history with their own perception. Freedom to believe what they want is a crux of the entire debate.

It doesn't affect us the slightest if Tipu is called a villain. Similarly it should not affect the Hindus if the Pala, Chalukya and other Indian dynasties are seen negatively by muslims. The problem arises from our refusal to accept these differences in followers of religions different thoughts.

No. History is not the opinion of anyone. Anyone has had a big impact, his role must be objectively evaluated and looked into.

 

[Hindustani78]

The British had a vested interest in projecting their campaign against Mysore as a liberation campaign. There was no tar too oily, no cruelty too horrifying nothing that was barred.

On the other hand, the visceral hatred of the religious right for any Muslim ruler makes them hate Tipu too. What could be more natural than to take the caustic portraits of the British and apply for them.

During that time , East India Company was fighting wars with Mysore Kingdom and Maratha Empire.

We can go through the timeline while talking about history, we should be a bit more open.

Proxy war is being waged against our nation in the history and even now the same is going on.

How we Indians have to think . United we stand , divided we fall.

Lets make our nation an example instead of all this.

The Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi laying wreath at the memorial of Abdul Hamid, PVC, at Asal Uttar, in Punjab on November 11, 2015.

 

[nForce]

@Joe Shearer I could not find the older thread about Nehru. I did some study about Jinnah. It seems to me he was a person who started with some ideology and gradually it was the victory over the adversary that mattered the most to him rather than the purpose.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer I could not find the older thread about Nehru. I did some study about Jinnah. It seems to me he was a person who started with some ideology and gradually it was the victory over the adversary that mattered the most to him rather than the purpose.

That is the neatest summary about him and his career that I have read anywhere!

Bang on.

Do remember that he was the symbol of Hindu-Muslim unity and the expulsion of religion from public affairs, an issue on which he gave Gandhi a dire warning on the occasion of Gandhi supporting the Khilafat Movement. Gandhi did not listen to him - he was on a roll, and disregarded anyone and anything that came in his way, for instance, Gokhale got short shrift from him despite his pre-eminence and his considerable work for the independence movement.

Your summary is really terse and to the point. Admirable. Cultivate this habit; it is an invaluable aid.

During that time , East India Company was fighting wars with Mysore Kingdom and Maratha Empire.

We can go through the timeline while talking about history, we should be a bit more open.

I beg your pardon? What was not open about my comment? Every schoolboy knows that the East India Company was fighting wars with Mysore and the Marathas. What of it?

Your following remarks are not at all clear to me.

Proxy war is being waged against our nation in the history and even now the same is going on.

How we Indians have to think . United we stand , divided we fall.

Lets make our nation an example instead of all this.

The Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi laying wreath at the memorial of Abdul Hamid, PVC, at Asal Uttar, in Punjab on November 11, 2015.

 

[SpArK]

Mysorean invasion of Kerala - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Presumably you are referring to Tipu Sultan. What you have supposed is not true. A detailed reading, or readings will reveal that.

It is amusing that British vilification of their arch-enemy has been picked up by the religious right, and strutted from the rooftops.

I have not read much of British reports. I am basing the accounts of the defeated Kodavas, some Nair accounts and his own written letters.

why tipu rule is being opposed now ? i know akbar is not included because mughals were invaders but why tipu ?

All Mughals were not invaders. Akbar was not an invader. Babur was. Akbar was a decent ruler in his time, given his royal line and faith.

You can come to me. I promise to rule you personally by Tipu's diktats. I will grant you accommodation and free food for the entire duration. A role playing game for example.

 

[Hindustani78]

I have not read much of British reports. I am basing the accounts of the defeated Kodavas, some Nair accounts and his own written letters.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have not read much of British reports. I am basing the accounts of the defeated Kodavas, some Nair accounts and his own written letters.

It is true that we need to re-visit indigenous sources; the ones you have mentioned have been cited before, some of them, but there is always room for re-examination. Having said that, it also remains true that these accounts are biased, each of them, the Kodavas and the Nairs against Tipu, he himself quite possibly favouring himself!!!

Caution is needed, as it is needed in looking at the British accounts, which were earlier weighted against Tipu, but which has subsequently been itself re-examined.