Sharia Scare Shakes UK: 'Law of the land go to hell'

[Hulk]

The Muslims have gone too far in love for their religion that it becomes bothersome for others. In Muslim country they do not allow to even practice other faith. They do not believe in people having right to their view.

 

[Developereo]

What this mean is that throughout our lives, we continually seek new perspectives and reaffirmations of current ones when beliefs are challenged and usually it is the LOCAL area that we quickly seek those new perspectives and reaffirmations of the current ones.

Human nature is such that most people subconsciously apply a selective filter to focus on data that reaffirms their convictions, while downplaying conflicting data. That is where external factors like educators and the media come in. The "liberal" media's very conscious and very deliberate tendency to portray minorities, especially blacks, in positive roles is one example of trying to redress people's perceptions.

In the case of Muslims, the Western media does the opposite: it seeks out and focuses on the most extreme elements and portrays them as being representative of the whole group. European media portrays Muslim characters almost exclusively in criminal roles. For many Westerners, they don't have extensive day-to-day contact with Muslims, so their only "local" point of reference is the media.

In this case, Britain has -- I don't know -- how many millions of Muslims. How many members does this Sharia vigilante group contain? Is this a large scale problem or media hype? If they are breaking the law, it's a matter for the police.

Leaders may be egotistically self appointed but without followers, they do not stay leaders for long. .

That's a strawman. I have already pointed out that, in a population exceeding a billion individuals without any central command structure, there are innumerable, self-appointed "leaders". David Koresh didn't represent Christians, any more than Meir Kahane represented Jews. The black panthers don't "represent" the African-American community. We all accept that there are similar elements in the Muslim community also, and the point is the tendency of the media to generalize and stereotype when any Muslim steps out of line.

Another example: a Lebanese Muslim cleric in Australia said something stupid about scantily dressed women and sexual assaults. The media and politicians had a field day ranting against "Muslims". Later, a white, female, Christian ex-judge also said something similar, but no one made an issue of it.

 

[gambit]

Human nature is such that most people subconsciously apply a selective filter to focus on data that reaffirms their convictions, while downplaying conflicting data. That is where external factors like educators and the media come in. The "liberal" media's very conscious and very deliberate tendency to portray minorities, especially blacks, in positive roles is one example of trying to redress people's perceptions.

In the case of Muslims, the Western media does the opposite: it seeks out and focuses on the most extreme elements and portrays them as being representative of the whole group. European media portrays Muslim characters almost exclusively in criminal roles. For many Westerners, they don't have extensive day-to-day contact with Muslims, so their only "local" point of reference is the media.

In this case, Britain has -- I don't know -- how many millions of Muslims. How many members does this Sharia vigilante group contain? Is this a large scale problem or media hype? If they are breaking the law, it's a matter for the police.



That's a strawman. I have already pointed out that, in a population exceeding a billion individuals without any central command structure, there are innumerable, self-appointed "leaders". David Koresh didn't represent Christians, any more than Meir Kahane represented Jews. The black panthers don't "represent" the African-American community. We all accept that there are similar elements in the Muslim community also, and the point is the tendency of the media to generalize and stereotype when any Muslim steps out of line.

Another example: a Lebanese Muslim cleric in Australia said something stupid about scantily dressed women and sexual assaults. The media and politicians had a field day ranting against "Muslims". Later, a white, female, Christian ex-judge also said something similar, but no one made an issue of it.

No. It is not a strawman.

Religion in the West is very much a la carte despite the existence of centralized authority in the major Christian sects. It is a la carte down to the local church level. If I do not like a particular local leader, I can attend another parish if I wish. Self police is the best form of police and EVERYONE, including Muslims, know this instinctively. Moral restraints are better than handcuffs and every police force in the world know this instinctively. Why else would they try to work with non-elected local community leaders in areas where there are diverse ethnicities and religions?

Focusing on the media is the true strawman. You are an enabler of religious fanaticism in taking this path.

 

[Developereo]

Focusing on the media is the true strawman. You are an enabler of religious fanaticism in taking this path.

I am not blaming the media for creating fanatics. I am saying there are extremist leaders and followers in most communities, but the media gives undue coverage to Muslim fanatics. It's more than just "bad news sells"; the media has found a new villain (especially after 9/11) and loves to perpetuate that narrative.

In terms of actual impact on the daily life of an average Westerner, are Muslim fanatics really having the impact commensurate to the coverage they receive?

 

[gambit]

I am not blaming the media for creating fanatics. I am saying there are extremist leaders and followers in most communities, but the media gives undue coverage to Muslim fanatics. It's more than just "bad news sells"; the media has found a new villain (especially after 9/11) and loves to perpetuate that narrative.

In terms of actual impact on the daily life of an average Westerner, are Muslim fanatics really having the impact commensurate to the coverage they receive?

Indirectly, you are.

You mentioned David Koresh. Fine. Were there no media attention on him in particular and the religious mindset of Christianity in general? You bet there were and Christian leaders were quick to disassociate themselves and their followers from Koresh and his followers. The reason why the 'Christian fanatic' impression do not hold for long in the people's minds is because there was no consistent pattern throughout Christendom. It is not as if news do not spread. The technology for disseminating events did exist back in the early '90s. May be it is not as efficient, as in Facebook or Twitter like today. But Koresh and the analyses of him were disseminated. I read plenty enough of them through a medium call 'paper'.

So while you are not directly saying 'The Western media created Muslim religious fanatics.' you are saying to the Muslim community, at least on this forum, that 'If only the Western media would just leave us alone to our business.' Of course, there exist a consistent pattern of Islamic religious extremism throughout the world is ignored by you and Muslims like you who are more interested in external impressions than of internal causes that attracts attention.

 

[474474]

No. It is not a strawman.

Religion in the West is very much a la carte despite the existence of centralized authority in the major Christian sects. It is a la carte down to the local church level. If I do not like a particular local leader, I can attend another parish if I wish. Self police is the best form of police and EVERYONE, including Muslims, know this instinctively. Moral restraints are better than handcuffs and every police force in the world know this instinctively. Why else would they try to work with non-elected local community leaders in areas where there are diverse ethnicities and religions?

Focusing on the media is the true strawman. You are an enabler of religious fanaticism in taking this path.

You must have flunked debate class, what's wrong with you? Can't you reply to everything he says instead of what you feel you'll be able to handle?

 

[notsuperstitious]

Focusing on the media is the true strawman. You are an enabler of religious fanaticism in taking this path.

Sir you are 100% correct. I've realised apologists are willing - unwilling enablers who will deflect blame and play semantics and essentially help fanaticism.

Another thing is people pi$$ drunk on religion can not be healthy. In Singapore all the evangelical churches I found really annoying but most of their programs were secular in nature, from education to cleaning beaches to nature walks to helping neighborhood countries of all faiths affected by natural disasters etc. But I know this one guy who is active in a mosque and all they do is religion religion religion brainwash kids control kids brainwash kids control kids palestine palestine palestine - its plain unhealthy.

 

[Developereo]

So while you are not directly saying 'The Western media created Muslim religious fanatics.' you are saying to the Muslim community, at least on this forum, that 'If only the Western media would just leave us alone to our business.' Of course, there exist a consistent pattern of Islamic religious extremism throughout the world is ignored by you and Muslims like you who are more interested in external impressions than of internal causes that attracts attention.

Setting aside terrorism, and focusing on social or cultural extremism, there are three separate spheres: the Muslim-majority countries, countries where Muslims are an indigenous minority, and Muslim migrants to (Western) countries.

This topic is not about the first two, but about the last category and whether Muslim migrants pose a threat to their Western hosts. The first two topics are broad enough in themselves and that's a whole different discussion.

In the context of Muslim migrants, I am saying that the threat posed by extremist elements in Muslim migrant communities is exaggerated by the Western media. Whatever social issues arise around those communities are typical of those socio-economic background and have afflicted other migrant groups in the past. The handful of lunatics who get paraded in front of the media do not represent either the mainstream Muslim community or a serious threat to Western society.

 

[Azazel]

Why don't muslims condemn this?

Because they are hypocrites.

 

[Redbull]

I'm always wondering why the police don't put these hate preachers in jail untill they take back their rhetoric.

You can't blame anyone but the government for that.

 

[JayAtl]

The OP just wants a thread to rant against Muslims and invite like-minded people to do so.

For someone who claims( we know better otherwise) that moderates do speak up, you sure seem to want to stifle open discussions.

I'm always wondering why the police don't put these hate preachers in jail untill they take back their rhetoric.

You can't blame anyone but the government for that.

Because Britain is not a Islamic country and can't just shove people in jails because they advocate their version of a religion. some of those groups were just walking with signs and saying gibberish.

Britain has brought this upon themselves with their lax rules. I would deport them to Afghanistan or any stan of preference

 

[livingdead]

I'm always wondering why the police don't put these hate preachers in jail untill they take back their rhetoric.

You can't blame anyone but the government for that.

in uk its not possible to do so, as they will be released by court. I dont think these hate preachers violated any british law. Authorities have detained a few( for too long) without charging them because they are expecting violent act (not hate speech) from them, but that will not last long.

 

[Developereo]

Sir you are 100% correct. I've realised apologists are willing - unwilling enablers who will deflect blame and play semantics and essentially help fanaticism.

Another thing is people pi$$ drunk on religion can not be healthy. In Singapore all the evangelical churches I found really annoying but most of their programs were secular in nature, from education to cleaning beaches to nature walks to helping neighborhood countries of all faiths affected by natural disasters etc. But I know this one guy who is active in a mosque and all they do is religion religion religion brainwash kids control kids brainwash kids control kids palestine palestine palestine - its plain unhealthy.

You really need to get out more often.

The (Christian) south Sudan issue was very active in many churches, especially in the US.
Similarly, the (Christian) East Timor issue was active in Australian churches.
Furthermore, (alleged) persecution of Christians around the world is a mainstay in some evangelical churches.

 

[selvan33]

I can't understand why muslims are loving their religion too much. every religion is created to form some ways for life. but sometimes its involving in societal matters which dangers the society. I don't know when people are going too understand that the religions are individual way of life and feelings that differs from person to person and place to place and time to time.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Just arrest and deport the culprits.Also cut off all welfare benefits for immigrants involved in such activities.