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Shanghai tops global school tests, UK 'stagnates'

You're talking from a position of immense privilege and completely oblivious to how the rest of your countrymen live like. Do you realize that India has a 74% literacy rate? What percentage of the population do IIT hopefuls actually comprise?

How about you allow the rest of the population in Chinese rural areas take the PISA test instead of those privileged guys in Shanghai and then talk ... If We had sent kids for PISA test from only Chennai and Mumbai , i assure you things would have been a lot different ..

Your Ignorance and bias amuses me to a great extent
 
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You're talking from a position of immense privilege and completely oblivious to how the rest of your countrymen live like. Do you realize that India has a 74% literacy rate? What percentage of the population do IIT hopefuls actually comprise?

500,000 people attempt it every year.

How about you allow the rest of the population in Chinese rural areas take the PISA test instead of those privileged guys in Shanghai and then talk ... If We had sent kids for PISA test from only Chennai and Mumbai , i assure you things would have been a lot different ..

Your Ignorance and bias amuses me to a great extent

They do send the people from the rural areas.
 
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How about you allow the rest of the population in Chinese rural areas take the PISA test instead of those privileged guys in Shanghai and then talk ... If We had sent kids for PISA test from only Chennai and Mumbai , i assure you things would have been a lot different ..

Your Ignorance and bias amuses me to a great extent

LOL, typical indian sour grapes. Every country selects the strongest state/city as the official participant for PISA. India chose the top two states with highest Gross Enrollment (GER) in primary and upper primary, yet Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh came in second last in previous PISA. The weaker Indian states with lesser enrollment rate would have fare even worse.

Rural chinese provinces actually volunteered for PISA and they scored above PISA average.
 
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The question is mhow many Chinese provinces can score better than Shanghai?

Can anyone shed some light on this?


I'd like to see the scores , leaked or not, of all 12 Chinese provinces tested.
 
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Waiting for people of the coming super duper power to dismiss PISA as not important. Only silly developed and rich countries take it seriously. :D
No, PISA is a good thing. Vietnam ranks 17th (in Math), not too bad, direct behind Germany 16th.

But why the city of Shanghai counts as "country"?
 
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LOL, typical indian sour grapes. Every country selects the strongest state/city to take PISA. India chose the top two states with highest Gross Enrollment (GER) in primary and upper primary, yet Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh came in second last in previous PISA.

The weaker Indian states with lesser enrollment rate would fare even worse.


Your rather aggressive attitude itself shows who is being a sour grape :lol:


Do you even know form which part of Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh those kids were taken for the PISA test ? Do you even know that Tamil Nadu and Himachal are entire states while Shanghai is a metropolitan city ? Those kids were taken form basic government schools and not from Indian metropolitan cities... Next time you hit that reply button...do some research ...

Sorry for bursting your bubble
 
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India chickens out of international students assessment programme again

MUMBAI: After an embarrassing show in 2009, India has backed out of the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) slated for 2015. The programme is a global evaluation process by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) secretariat that gauges where schoolchildren stand alongside their peers from other countries.

This academic Olympics measures the performance of 15 year olds in reading, math and science. Indians were put to test for the first time in 2009. On the global stage, they stood second last among 73 countries, only beating Kyrgyzstan. India had also stayed away from the evaluation round in 2012.
This time around, sources said India shied away from the assessment as government officials felt our children were not prepared for such a test.

"Unfortunately, India hasn't signed up for PISA 2015, and didn't participate in the PISA 2012 round either," said Juliet Evans, who handles communication and administration for the PISA Secretariat. "India didn't sign up for the PISA 2012 assessment because when countries were asked to sign up for that assessment, India had only signed up for the PISA 2009 assessment, which it carried out a year later," she said.

Unlike India, several other countries like Costa Rica, Malaysia, Georgia and the UAE who had carried out the PISA evaluation in 2010 have signed up for the upcoming assessment. In the last assessment, Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh were put through the PISA evaluation, but they performed miserably. The idea was that the entire country would participate in the next round of assessment but now that plan has also been dropped.

The assessment is based on two-hour tests that half a million students are put through. China's Shanghai province, which participated in PISA for the first time like the two Indian states, scored the highest in reading. It also topped the charts in math and science. "More than one-quarter of Shanghai's 15-year-olds demonstrated advanced mathematical thinking skills to solve complex problems, compared to an OECD average of just 3%," noted the analysis.

In math, considered India's strong point, the states finished second and third last, beating only Kyrgyzstan; the English test threw up the same result. Girls were better than boys and science results were the worst, where Himachal stood last. TN was slightly better and finished third from bottom. The average 15-year old Indian is over 200 points behind the global topper.

Experts estimate that an Indian class VIII student is at the same level as a South Korean class III student in math abilities or a class II student from Shanghai when it comes to reading skills
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What is PISA?

PISA, or the Programme for International Student Assessment, evaluates education systems in 70 countries by testing the academic abilities of 15-year-old students in each country. Skills and knowledge that students have acquired at the end of compulsory education in reading, math, problem solving and scientific literacy are tested.

India chickens out of international students assessment programme again - Times Of India

 
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Your rather aggressive attitude itself shows who is being a sour grape :lol:


Do you even know form which part of Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh those kids were taken for the PISA test ? Do you even know that Tamil Nadu and Himachal are entire states while Shanghai is a metropolitan city ? Those kids were taken form basic government schools and not from Indian metropolitan cities... Next time you hit that reply button...do some research ...

Sorry for bursting your bubble

When one is presented with the bitter truth, ego's bruised, anything can come across as aggressive. I'll forgive you. But still, I'll have to expose your lies.

1) Shanghai is a directly controlled municipality, it's like a state/province by itself.

2) Schools and students within the participating state are all randomly selected. This applies to Tamil Nadu and Himachal as well. So how would you know schools from metro city in Tamil Nadu are not selected???

Schools in each country are randomly selected by the international contractor for participation in PISA
At these schools, the test is given to students who are between age 15 years 3 months and age 16 years 2 months at the time of the test, rather than to students in a specific year of school. This average age of 15 was chosen because at this age young people in most OECD countries are nearing the end of compulsory education. The selection of schools and students is kept as inclusive as possible, so that the sample of students comes from a broad range of backgrounds and abilities.


Sour grapes don't taste good, it's natural you'll find excuse for India's poor showing but how far can you go? Look, if India is confident it can do better, why did it pull out of PISA completely??????
 
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The question is mhow many Chinese provinces can score better than Shanghai?

Can anyone shed some light on this?

I'd like to see the scores , leaked or not, of all 12 Chinese provinces tested.


I think they are going to publish the scores of other Chinese participants soon for PISA 2012

To recap, the organiser has said this regarding the level of achievements by other Chinese students away from Shanghai:

'Incredible resilience'

The Pisa 2009 tests showed that Shanghai was top of the international education rankings.

But it was unclear whether Shanghai and another chart-topper, Hong Kong, were unrepresentative regional showcases.

The OECD's Andreas Schleicher: "Fairness and relevance are not the same thing"
Mr Schleicher says the unpublished results reveal that pupils in other parts of China are also performing strongly.

"Even in rural areas and in disadvantaged environments, you see a remarkable performance."

In particular, he said the test results showed the "resilience" of pupils to succeed despite tough backgrounds - and the "high levels of equity" between rich and poor pupils.

"Shanghai is an exceptional case - and the results there are close to what I expected. But what surprised me more were the results from poor provinces that came out really well. The levels of resilience are just incredible.

"In China, the idea is so deeply rooted that education is the key to mobility and success."


BBC News - China: The world's cleverest country?

For the above students who took the test in 2009, their performance was at the OECD levels if I can remember that correctly.
 
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Wow, I can't believe Hong Kong still scores so highly! :woot:

And interestingly, Singapore also has a Chinese majority-population too.

I think it is the attitude of Chinese parents that cause the academic scores to be so high. They are always pushing their children like crazy.

And I love Shanghai. It is my favourite city outside of HK. :D
 
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How about you allow the rest of the population in Chinese rural areas take the PISA test instead of those privileged guys in Shanghai and then talk ... If We had sent kids for PISA test from only Chennai and Mumbai , i assure you things would have been a lot different ..

Your Ignorance and bias amuses me to a great extent

So, why didn't you send a contingent of students from Chennai and Mumbai then? Last time, only Tamil Nadu students represented India, who I assume perform above average in India, yet even their isolated results were so dismal that the GoI decided to drop out of the competition.

And the rest of China was tested too. Their results were not as good as Shanghai's, but still above the OECD on average. Andreas Schleicher, an OECD official remarked, “We have actually done PISA in 12 of the provinces in China. Even in some of the very poor areas you get performance close to the OECD average.”

PISA's China Problem | Brookings Institution
 
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So, why didn't you send a contingent of students from Chennai and Mumbai then? Last time, only Tamil Nadu students represented India, who I assume perform above average in India, yet even their isolated results were so dismal that the GoI decided to drop out of the competition.

And the rest of China was tested too. Their results were not as good as Shanghai's, but still above the OECD on average. Andreas Schleicher, an OECD official remarked, “We have actually done PISA in 12 of the provinces in China. Even in some of the very poor areas you get performance close to the OECD average.”

PISA's China Problem | Brookings Institution

@Star Wars

There you go
 
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@kbd-raaf
Read the Analysis below and tell me what you think

Calculating Average Indian IQ from PISA

TN raw math PISA score = 351
TN implied IQ = 100 - 1.5 x 15 = 78

HP raw math score = 338
HP implied IQ = 100 - 1.62 x 15 = 76

Indian Avg IQ based on raw PISA = 77
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Next step is to remove the bias caused by the PISA sample having 75% bilingual kids

( Tibetan kids facing Hindi PISA exam and Telegu kids facing Tamil PISA exam )

TN mono-lingual = 378
Implied IQ = 500 - 1.22 x 15 = 82

HP mono-lingual = 401
Implied IQ = 500 - 15 = 85
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Next there is a 40 point difference between scores for 'Village' and scores for 'Large city'
In HP and TN, The village category is over-represented by a factor of 4
Even worse, in HP, City and Large City are entirely removed from the survey sample

So adding an urban correction of 20 ( half the village-large city difference )

TN semi-urbanised mono-lingual = 378 + 20 = 398
Implied IQ = 85

HP semi-urbanised mono-lingual = 401 + 20 = 421
Implied IQ = 100 - 0.79 x 15 = 88

Current Indian IQ = 86
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Next we look to the future as malnutrition is removed

The only Indian kids who go to govt school is for the mid-day meal,

If they are not starving they go to private school

Private schools score 45 more than govt schools and thats the future as poverty reduces
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HP - future - semi-urbanised- mono-lingual = 401 + 20 + 45 = 466

Implied IQ = 95

TN - future - semi-urbanised - mono-lingual = 378 + 20 + 45 = 443

Implied IQ = 91

Future Indian IQ = 93

Given the huge bias in sampling towards over-representing the lower end IQ,
by the poverty pimp NGOs, I am certain that none of the CBSE or Cambridge schools
that serve the top 15% are included in the survey


And they have an entirely different IQ profile and cause an IQ bulge at the top end

I proved my point



I have pretty much proven my point in the above post about the sheer selection BIAS is PISA rankings
 
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