Shame on Iran

[muse]

you are sometimes willing to join a chorus of people who have ulterior motives for exposing our bad ugly points and weaknesses. I want us to solve our problems. There are many amongst us who know there is bad and evil amongst us. But we dont need west to sort it for us they have their own issues we should and will sort out our problems without interferance

No the West argument does not resonate with me -- but listen, you don't have to agree with me or even like what I have to say - However, if you can demonstrate with argument that some information offered is not information or is just plain lies, then I welcome it - we will all be richer for it

But to just say, the evil West, this and that, that's kinda effeminate and unworthy -- see, if we could do what you suggest, that is to say deal with our problems, we would have done it already, isn't that so?? Reality is we are all connected, we are all not just one thing but multiple things, identities and the West is as much our heritage as it that of others - that's what gives us the the ability to comment on the goings on in the West, because we claim it.

 

[RazPaK]

There has to be more to this story, if it's true at all. No sane person can take this seriously with the amount of information being provided.

 

[Meengla]

If true, this is indeed a very shameful verdict. But to shame a nation of tens of millions for the acts of a religious tyranny--who doesn't spare its own citizens by enforcing the 'Islamic' laws--is not fair.
Iranian govt. is anachronistic. But the solution is for Iranians themselves to sort it out.

PS. If a major figure in Pakistan converts to Christianity you will see the unofficial vigilantes burning him alive. In India there are problems for Hindus who are being converted to Christianity. Some nations don't have specific laws against conversion but they have the vigilantes doing the word instead.

 

[muse]

But to shame a nation of tens of millions for the acts of a religious tyranny--who doesn't spare its own citizens by enforcing the 'Islamic' laws--is not fair.

You are then arguing that Iranian government is not representative -- Iranians will take issue.

The prosecution of Mr. Naderkhani was done by the state - acts in the name of the people. Are Americans no longer responsible for the acts of their government???

 

[Hussein]

It seems to be a true story but in the fars news from outside you know more about the situation.

First point he is evangelist .So it is sectarian part of christianity. Christians are allowed in Iran by the way.
The fact is really really strange: he decided to make his own house as church/chappel.
And the strange point is that he asked authorization about it in a country where is forbidden to change religion.
He knew exactly what would happen. If the story we can see everywhere in the foreign iranian newspapers is true.
As well mostly accused to invite muslims to convert: that was the main reason .

anyway i agree with muse, this sentence would be a great shame.
And muse, clearly there is no such thing as killing the people who change religion in Islam. Islam is a choice.
And even out of the Islam context, the death penalty is savagery .

 

[Meengla]

You are then arguing that Iranian government is not representative -- Iranians will take issue.

The prosecution of Mr. Naderkhani was done by the state - acts in the name of the people. Are Americans no longer responsible for the acts of their government???

No, Muse. I don't buy that if a simple majority elects a government then each and every action of that government becomes that of the tens of millions of people.
Iranians are repressed and they continue to be repressed so long as there is more plurality of choices of parties allowed in elections which are free and fair.
Iran does have a representative govt. to an extent but so long as the top-most clerics control the choices and veto I would'n't characterize Iran as a 'democracy'. Pakistan is more democratic than that.

 

[muse]

So let me see if I understand the argument -- because top clerics control who can run, Iran's government is not representative? Is that a fair and accurate if economical representation of your argument?

 

[lem34]

In the US well lseklets see others pick it up. Theres no love lost between americans and iranians

self delete

 

[RazPaK]

It seems to be a true story but in the fars news from outside you know more about the situation.

First point he is evangelist .So it is sectarian part of christianity. Christians are allowed in Iran by the way.
The fact is really really strange: he decided to make his own house as church/chappel.
And the strange point is that he asked authorization about it in a country where is forbidden to change religion.
He knew exactly what would happen. If the story we can see everywhere in the foreign iranian newspapers is true.
As well mostly accused to invite muslims to convert: that was the main reason .

anyway i agree with muse, this sentence would be a great shame.
And muse, clearly there is no such thing as killing the people who change religion in Islam. Islam is a choice.
And even out of the Islam context, the death penalty is savagery .

SO basically he's making a stand against the government's policies and receiving attention from around the world to focus in on the Regime?

 

[S.M.R]

Did he choose to be born there?

I think the right thing to do would be very kind to them and try to clear their doubts

I want to live with a girl without marrying her, damn i cant as i did not choose to get birth here in pakistan.

Damn this hudood ordinance, agee?

 

[lem34]

No the West argument does not resonate with me -- but listen, you don't have to agree with me or even like what I have to say - However, if you can demonstrate with argument that some information offered is not information or is just plain lies, then I welcome it - we will all be richer for it

But to just say, the evil West, this and that, that's kinda effeminate and unworthy -- see, if we could do what you suggest, that is to say deal with our problems, we would have done it already, isn't that so?? Reality is we are all connected, we are all not just one thing but multiple things, identities and the West is as much our heritage as it that of others - that's what gives us the the ability to comment on the goings on in the West, because we claim it.

The west argument does not resonate with you? Matter for you. I dont agree with you on this and this is probably why you rub so many people up the wrong way. Why can so many of us of all hues see it but you are blind to it. You may and prob will say you dont care but I think you should try because I think there is side of you that is almost trying desparetly to hide or put itself down?

Tell me muse why your throw away comment about effeminate and unworthy? why do you link efeminate with unworthy, speaks volumes to me but most it will prob just pass by. Think about it.

You are wrong about if we could deal with our problems we would have done it. Its not a black white thing. Values and taboos etc do not develop overnight. It wasnt that long ago that west gave women and blacks a vote. It wasnt that long ago when homosexuals were abused in the west.
I have great faith and hope in human beings and Pakistan. In time we will be fine. we will come through it like others have done.

The rest of what you say is a bit mixed up to me mate, But then as a group in the west we are not an homogenous group so each to is own.

 

[lem34]

SO basically he's making a stand against the government's policies and receiving attention from around the world to focus in on the Regime?

Interesting viewpoint muse. In fact thats exactly what hes doing. He is pointing to something which is draconian and the west are jumping up and down eh-propaganda i would say good chance to knock iran yea

 

[lem34]

Would it matter if he was a Muslim or not?

Jamie Id be interested to know. id want to know from what perspective hes coming from. I dont think people should make allegations against other members this guy should put his money where his mouth is.

 

[khanz4996]

Would it matter if he was a Muslim or not?

100% not pakistani.and the post which he posted check all of them its either resonating division in pakistan according to sects and religion he constantly posts articles with twisted headings against other muslim countries and specially against arabs and now when iran is trying to come closer he targeting iran through his posts he is anti pakistan

 

[muse]

the strange point is that he asked authorization about it in a country where is forbidden to change religion

Aryan Super K -- there you have it - how can we solve our problems when we are not allowed to?

Hussein says this is against islam -- wait a minute, if La Iqra Fid Deen is true then the state has nothing to say with regard to Mr. Naderkhani's confession

See, the real problem is the willingness to strike fear in people - the willingness to fill the halls of heaven with those unwilling to go voluntarily - to force people on pain of death