Shall I come in front of ghq and burn my self with fire and commit suicide ?

[niaz]

I had great respect for Mr. Kuldeep Nayar, but no more. For example, he wrote:

"Before India was partitioned, he sent his close associate, Sadiq Sahib, who subsequently became the state chief minister, to Islamabad to get the feel of Pakistan. On returning, Sadiq reported to the Sheikh that Pakistan wanted to be an Islamic state. The Sheikh straightaway made up his mind and refused to accept any proposal which did not meet with his ethos of secularism came across this article by chance."

Does he not know that Indian was partitioned on mid-August 1947. Whereas Islamabad was only conceived during the Ayyub era and only came into being in 1960, full 13 years later!"

https://www.telegraphindia.com/indi...-determined-to-become-a-theocracy/cid/1695891

I am losing my faith in journalism. Mr. Nayyar was born in 1923 & died in 2018. He must have been fully aware of the history of Islamabad. If a veteran journalist such as Kuldeep Nayar can deliberately mislead the readers, can anyone really accept anything other subcontinent journalists say about anything else?

Another possibility is that since Mr. Nayar is no more, somebody else wrote the article but Indian Telegraph published it in Mr. Nayar's name to give it more credence. This is even worse. This means that some Indian newspapers have no 'Consciences' whatsoever!

Nevertheless, I would suggest a full reading of the article to understand the mindset of the Indians in nothing else. Sheikh Abdullah was certainly no friend of Pakistan.

 

[Kabira]

That never happened.

Firstly, Pakistan currently controls roughly 38.2% of the former Princely State of Kashmir. Gilgit Baltistan constitutes 32.5% while AJK is 5.7%. Don't know where you got the 25% figure from. India holds 45.1% (Kashmir Valley, Jammu and Ladakh) while the remainder is held by China (Aksai Chin and Shaksgam Valley).

Gilgit Baltistan was liberated by the Gilgitis and the Baltis themselves and then handed over to Pakistan. No Pashtun help was involved at all. The locals in AJK were indeed joined by the Tribals in pushing the Dogras from what is today AJK. However, the Tribals then stopped in their tracks distracted by "mal-e-ghaneemat" when the way to Srinagar was clear. This allowed India enough time to land their forces in Srinagar. The Kashmiris in the vale and Jammu did pretty much nothing. The Indian forces then started pushing the irregulars back until the Pakistani army reinforced their positions and stopped the Indian advance.

The whole "Pashtun Tribals invading Kashmir" narrative is built and spread by the Indians to discount the voluntary union of Gilgit Baltistan and AJK with Pakistan by the locals.




That is a topic beyond this thread. Happy to discuss it if you open a dedicated thread on it.

Don't say that tribals did nothing even if they looted, mostly hindu and sikhs. This is what happened...

Pakistan/Jinnah was trying very hard to convince Kashmiri muslim leaders. It didn't work because Abdullahs loved their hindu/sikh brothers.

There was rebellion in some parts like in Poonch/AJK. Pakistan did send people from this side to help them out, it was not entirely indigenous. Later on the guy on charge who is believed to be"pathan" from Jullunder wanted tribals also to join them. When Kashmiris say tribals looted they forget that in AJK sikhs and hindus were looted and killed by locals. Jammu hindus got rid of majority of its muslim population by looting and killing them.

And few decades later Kashmiris will kill pandits and force them out of valley. But fact remain Abdullahs didn't want to join Pakistan and hence were against "invaders". You can't win without local support. Soo looting was not the reason for losing it. This goes other way around also, AJK and GB wouldn't be part of Pakistan today if locals didn't support it.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Oh almighty in the name of prophet and in the name of Muhammad(peace be upon him)

Hazret-i Muhammed (PBUH) is the Last Prophet, and the Muslims are his Ummet. Which other Prophet you're referring to? By the by, it's in the name of Allah-u Azimushshan, not any mortals...

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Hazret-i Muhammed (PBUH) is the Last Prophet, and the Muslims are his Ummet. Which other Prophet you're referring to? By the by, it's in the name of Allah-u Azimushshan, not any mortals...

I forgot to put s with prophet I will definitely correct the error. Just the way you wrote "By the by," by mistake. Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) is the last prophet. I hope your intentions are not to issue a fatwa on me bro?
Sura: 5 - al-Maaida (The Table) Ayat: 35
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ (35
ایمان والو اللہ سے ڈرو اور اس تک پہنچے کا وسیلہ تلاش کرو اوراس کی راہ میں جہاد کرو کہ شاید اس طرح کامیاب ہوجاؤ

[YOUSAF ALI] O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper.

[ PICKTHAL ] O ye who believe! Be mindful of your duty to Allah, and seek the way of approach unto Him, and strive in His way in order that ye may succeed.

[ SHAKIR ] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.
I means to seek nearness to him is through the prophets he sent and especially prophet Muhammad Mustafa( may peace be upon him). That's the way to seek nearness and have Almighty hear me.

 

[batmannow]

I had great respect for Mr. Kuldeep Nayar, but no more. For example, he wrote:

"Before India was partitioned, he sent his close associate, Sadiq Sahib, who subsequently became the state chief minister, to Islamabad to get the feel of Pakistan. On returning, Sadiq reported to the Sheikh that Pakistan wanted to be an Islamic state. The Sheikh straightaway made up his mind and refused to accept any proposal which did not meet with his ethos of secularism came across this article by chance."

Does he not know that Indian was partitioned on mid-August 1947. Whereas Islamabad was only conceived during the Ayyub era and only came into being in 1960, full 13 years later!"

https://www.telegraphindia.com/indi...-determined-to-become-a-theocracy/cid/1695891

I am losing my faith in journalism. Mr. Nayyar was born in 1923 & died in 2018. He must have been fully aware of the history of Islamabad. If a veteran journalist such as Kuldeep Nayar can deliberately mislead the readers, can anyone really accept anything other subcontinent journalists say about anything else?

Another possibility is that since Mr. Nayar is no more, somebody else wrote the article but Indian Telegraph published it in Mr. Nayar's name to give it more credence. This is even worse. This means that some Indian newspapers have no 'Consciences' whatsoever!

Nevertheless, I would suggest a full reading of the article to understand the mindset of the Indians in nothing else. Sheikh Abdullah was certainly no friend of Pakistan.

One very important thing to mention is pls stop living in post partition times, wake up look at ur enemy which is getting closer think about and plan its destruction by any means inteasd of having 50 years old history lectures cause Thts what ur enemy isn't doing, and it's we who r stuck in peace and discussional syndrome Thts ill bring us down, and our enemy ill wipe us out bit by bit as thy did ar the time when bhadur shah zafar faced it?

 

[krash]

Don't say that tribals did nothing even if they looted, mostly hindu and sikhs. This is what happened...

Honestly speaking, I don't really care if and who they looted. My frustration is with the fact that true to our nature we turned victory to defeat because of our greed. We are suffering from that stupidity to this day.

Pakistan/Jinnah was trying very hard to convince Kashmiri muslim leaders. It didn't work because Abdullahs loved their hindu/sikh brothers.

I don't want to get started on that. Today requires that we reinforce a singular, united and robust narrative. What I will say is that all Abdullah was after was his own power and his own power alone. That moron actually thought that he could create an independent Kashmir to rule as its king.

You can't win without local support.

No doubt. But in the case of 1948 the Kashmiri locals sat inert, i.e. there was no resistance to the Tribal invasion.

Soo looting was not the reason for losing it.

This is where we disagree. The road to Srinagar was completely clear for the tribal forces. The Dogra resistance was next to nothing and the Kashmiris were hiding in their houses, as inert as an ostrich with its head in the sand. We were around a day's march away from completely denying India any access to Kashmir. All we needed to do was to reach the Srinagar airstrip before the Indians. But because the Tribal Militias were more interested in "Mal-e-Ghaneemat", the Indian forces, even though late, had no problem arriving in the vale and then consolidating their positions. Would we have been able to consolidate and assimilate the IOK regions after liberation without local support? Pretty sure we would have, given that India has held on to them for more than 70 years now. However, that is a completely separate topic of discussion altogether.

This goes other way around also, AJK and GB wouldn't be part of Pakistan today if locals didn't support it.

Gilgit Baltistan would never have been liberated had it not been for the locals themselves and only themselves. The locals didn't just support Pakistan, they were the ones who actually fought, won and then handed their land over to Pakistan. Thank God that they didn't bury their heads in the dirt or their behinds like the other two cases. Hence the reason why I protest when people credit the Tribal Militias for the liberation of "Pakistani controlled Kashmir". In actuality, the militias' role in the liberation of Gilgit Baltistan was zilch and in the liberation of AJK it was mediocre at best. Where their case gets destroyed is the fact that for their personal greed they squandered the best opportunity that Pakistan has ever had of liberating IOK, period. This wasn't a realization acquired in retrospect either, when this was happening the militia commanders were begged not to stop their advance but 'as explained above'. So no, the Tribal Militias didn't do the Kashmir cause any favors. In fact they cost us more than what they gained us in 1948. Their contribution's glorification is completely unfounded and undeserved.

Pakistan should actively oppose this narrative, and not just because it's absolutely false or because it allows people such as WarKa DaNG to push their ethnic agendas. Firstly, this narrative is an absolute disservice to the patriotism and sacrifices of the people of Gilgit Baltistan. Secondly, the truth is an example which gives the Kashmiris a smack in the face (I'll leave it at that). Thirdly, it helps the Indian propaganda that the liberation of Gilgit Baltistan and AJK came about through outside invading forces and not the efforts and sacrifices of the locals conscientiously fighting and struggling towards their wish of joining Pakistan. The same savior against invaders garbage that India uses to justify its invasion of the vale.

 

[BATMAN]

Is it come to this that I shall come in front of GHQ and burn my self with fire?
I haven't slept in 2 fucking days it's not my ego but you tell me how should I feel if i see my family on the other side of Kashmir and I cant get word from them. They love Pakistan and lifted the banner of Pakistan
Or should I go burn myself in front of shuakat lines in front of special place?
These rapist will be rapping my family and killing my family and the boys in uniform just look at my family being rapped by drunk Indian soldiers?
I Ask you as a Muslim is it ok with you Pakistani to leave them at the mercy of these drunk soldiers?
If Pakistan won't act then it's my Curse to Pakistan to be humiliated and I pray to God of Pakistan army won't act then my prayers is such
O lord Almighty grant Kashmiris the victory and before you grant us this victory get these corrupt Pakistani out of here.
And to Pakistan Armey
If you won't help then my prayer is that please grant us victory without Pakistani Army and shame everyone who was not sincere with us
You are creator oh Almighty Grant us Kashmiri Muslim such strength that we can take vengeance on those who are in India and especially those who backstabbed us.
I Swear To Almighty who holds my breath if Pakistan won't act then oh lord make these selfish humiliate.
OH Almighty make these selfish Pakistani and Indian at our feet for you Almighty Allah holds more power over everyone.
If Pakistan Army Abandone us let them be humiliated
if Pakistan abandon us then treat them worse.
P
Oh almighty in the name of prophet and in the name of Muhammad(peace be upon him) ask you of these Pakistani cant do anything then almighty so be it. Curse them who couldn't act in time and let us none but civilians be wasted in cause of your matters and you question them why.

You need to burn your self at bani gala!

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

. All we needed to do was to reach the Srinagar landing strip before the Indians. But because the Tribal Militias were more interested in "Mal-e-Ghaneemat", the Indian forces, even though late, had no problem arriving in the vale and then consolidating their positions.

I have heard that they were stopped due to Ceasefire

 

[BATMAN]

I have heard that they were stopped due to Ceasefire

Please elaborate?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Please elaborate?

The tribal militias were close to invade Sirinagar but ceasefire was calles b/w Pak and Ind

 

[Kabira]

Honestly speaking, I don't really care if and who they looted. My frustration is with the fact that true to our nature we turned victory to defeat because of our greed. We are suffering from that stupidity to this day.



I don't want to get started on that. Today requires that we reinforce a singular, united and robust narrative. What I will say is that all Abdullah was after was his own power and his own power alone. That moron actually thought that he could create an independent Kashmir to rule as its king.



No doubt. But in the case of 1948 the Kashmiri locals sat inert, i.e. there was no resistance to the Tribal invasion.




This is where we disagree. The road to Srinagar was completely clear for the tribal forces. The Dogra resistance was next to nothing and the Kashmiris were hiding in their houses, as inert as an ostrich with its head in the sand. We were around a day's march away from completely denying India any access to Kashmir. All we needed to do was to reach the Srinagar landing strip before the Indians. But because the Tribal Militias were more interested in "Mal-e-Ghaneemat", the Indian forces, even though late, had no problem arriving in the vale and then consolidating their positions. Would we have been able to consolidate and assimilate the IOK regions after liberation without local support? Pretty sure we would have, given that India has held on to them for more than 70 years now. However, that is a completely separate topic of discussion altogether.



Gilgit Baltistan would never have been liberated had it not been for the locals themselves and only themselves. The locals didn't just support Pakistan, they were the ones who actually fought, won and then handed their land over to Pakistan. Thank God that they didn't bury their heads in the dirt or their behinds like the other two cases. Hence the reason why I protest when people credit the Tribal Militias for the liberation of "Pakistani controlled Kashmir". In actuality, the militias' role in the liberation of Gilgit Baltistan was zilch and in the liberation of AJK it was mediocre at best. Where their case gets destroyed is the fact that for their personal greed they squandered the best opportunity that Pakistan has ever had of liberating IOK, period. This wasn't a realization acquired in retrospect either, when this was happening the militia commanders were begged not to stop their advance but 'as explained above'. So no, the Tribal Militias didn't do the Kashmir cause any favors. In fact they cost us more than what they gained us in 1948. Their contribution's glorification is completely unfounded and undeserved.

Pakistan should actively oppose this narrative, and not just because it's absolutely false or because it allows people such as WarKa DaNG to push their ethnic agendas. Firstly, this narrative is an absolute disservice to the patriotism and sacrifices of the people of Gilgit Baltistan. Secondly, the truth is an example which gives the Kashmiris a smack in the face (I'll leave it at that). Thirdly, it helps the Indian propaganda that the liberation of Gilgit Baltistan and AJK came about through outside invading forces and not the efforts and sacrifices of the locals conscientiously fighting and struggling towards their wish of joining Pakistan. The same savior against invaders garbage that India uses to justify its invasion of the vale.

I don't really care about what Indian narrative is. Pakistan did support AJK rebellion with arms and men. And important people from mainland Pakistan were also involved in GB rebellion along with locals. Later on tribals were brought in who went towards Srinagar. Tribals had no role in GB, with that I agree with. In AJK though they had limited role but main reason they were brought in was to secure valley. Any Indian who say locals in GB and AJK were against Pakistan is delusional and have drunk cow piss from RSS mandir so no point taking them seriously.

Tribals looted but so what? Muslim lashkar killed and looted hindus/sikhs of AJK long before tribals came in. Same happened to Jammu muslims. I couldn't care less about "Abdullahs" (lets call such kashmiris as abdullahs from now on) narrative, he is the reason Kashmir is still occupied. He was must popular leader and could have changed sides in favour of Pakistan year before partition. Instead he went to UN in 1948 to tell the world how tribal looted and killed his hindu and sikh brothers after asking them to recite kalima.

 

[krash]

I have heard that they were stopped due to Ceasefire

That's what they keep telling themselves. Their greed and stupidity is very well recorded and documented, by the Pakistani army as well.

The tribal militias were close to invade Sirinagar but ceasefire was calles b/w Pak and Ind

Not even close. As mentioned before, the tribal militias, after having pushed the Dogras back from the little part which is today AJK started watering at the mouths for war booty. They had nothing stopping them, the Dogras had been crushed, pretty much, and Srinagar was a short march away. Still, they stopped the advance, leaving the local forces high and dry, and started looting the Dogra installations and the Hindu and Sikh households. They claimed it was their right to extract "Mal-e-Ghaneemat". Having already lost Gilgit Baltistan to the Gilgit Scouts and seeing his forces helpless against the advancing combined force of the locals and the Tribal Militias, the Dogra ruler had run to the Indians seeking help. Before then he had always planned to keep Kashmir independent and for himself. In return for their help, the Indians set the condition that he accede Kashmir to India. According to the Indians, he agreed and signed the "Instrument of Accession" (No one has ever seen the original copy of that document though). The Indians could never have reached Kashmir by land in time. So, they proceeded to flying in their troops to the only airstrip in the region still left under Dogra control; Srinagar. From there they had no problem reaching the front-line and halting the Pro-Pakistani advance. The Gilgit Scouts had actually crossed beyond Kargil into Ladakh by then. The Indians then started pushing the Pro-Pakistani forces back until the Pakistani Army reached the front-line and reinforced their positions. Thus began the war. The rest is +70 years of misery.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The Kashmiri diaspora should have organised themselves in all these years.

They are very well organized. The other day I saw a bunch in Birmingham holding placards and flags

 

[Kabira]

That's what they keep telling themselves. Their greed and stupidity is very well recorded and documented, by the Pakistani army as well.



Not even close. As mentioned before, the tribal militias, after having pushed the Dogras back from the little part which is today AJK started watering at the mouths for war booty. They had nothing stopping them, the Dogras had been crushed, pretty much, and Srinagar was a short march away. Still, they stopped the advance, leaving the local forces high and dry, and started looting the Dogra installations and the Hindu and Sikh households. They claimed it was their right to extract "Mal-e-Ghaneemat". Having already lost Gilgit Baltistan to the Gilgit Scouts and seeing his forces helpless against the advancing combined force of the locals and the Tribal Militias, the Dogra ruler had run to the Indians seeking help. Before then he had always planned to keep Kashmir independent and for himself. In return for their help, the Indians set the condition that he accede Kashmir to India. According to the Indians, he agreed and signed the "Instrument of Accession" (No one has ever seen the original copy of that document though). The Indians could never have reached Kashmir by land in time. So, they proceeded to flying in their troops to the only airstrip in the region still left under Dogra control; Srinagar. From there they had no problem reaching the front-line and halting the Pro-Pakistani advance. The Gilgit Scouts had actually crossed beyond Kargil into Ladakh by then. The Indians then started pushing the Pro-Pakistani forces back until the Pakistani Army reached the front-line and reinforced their positions. Thus began the war. The rest is +70 years of misery.

Putting entire blame on tribals for losing valley will not change the fact that Abdullahs shit the bed well before partition. When Dogra ruler was signing Instrument of accession, Abdullah was sitting beside him dreaming of becoming Prime Minister of J&K. Which he did for a year or two before finally realising India will never allow them to become independent. He spent 13 years in jail after 1953.

Jinnah was offered to become PM of whole freaking British India.

And you are still going on about loot and plunder, not sure if you even know history of partition. Hindus and sikhs didn't send millions of muslims to Pakistan with roses.

 

[mqur1963]

as jews Christian and muslims believes we are in end of time before 3rd world war as per there religion .I thinkit will start from Pakistan and us will finished it