SHAHEEN III actual range 5000 KM ????

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

We can expect ICBM test soon

what is your source?Or is it just rumors? Any tam frame?

 

[Viper0011.]

According to a report submitted to US Senate by their National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC) , the actual range of Pakistan's Shaheen-3 missile is 5000 Km. The organization has access to long range radars and plethora of spy satellites with the added bonus of having experience of building missiles since 1950s,so their data and statement is as credible as it gets.
Pakistan is deliberately firing the missile at a lower range of 2750 Kilometres.
The reason of keeping the range lower is to have a higher speed. The fuel which could carry the missile to greater distance, is being used in giving the missile a higher velocity, specially when it re-enters the atmosphere.

Once you have the Physics, Chemistry, Metallurgy and Technology (Flight Control / Avionics, etc) down, range becomes a non-event. You can increase / decrease as you wish to. Its like Cars. Once you can build a 1600 CC car and it works.....nothing can stop you from offering different versions of that same engineering with modifications to the chassis, like an SUV, Mini Van, etc, etc. If you can develop a V4, you can overtime develop a V-6 and a V-8 also as the engineering doesn't change. Just the mechanics and design does.

 

[Akasa]

One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.

And you have all of this data at hand to draw your conclusion?

2750 is enough to wipeout TelAviv and Delhi , shortest route is the best....

ICBMs allow for the payload to be delivered from a higher apogee, resulting in greater reentry velocities and difficulty for the enemy to intercept.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The design is hardly difficult to add a third stage for extra boost either 1 extra stage or 3 suppliment booster as enough to increase the range of missile easily

It is Pakistan's good will that we don't try to extend our reach

 

[ZAC1]

recently an interview of Dr.Samar Mubarak stated that 2750 is not actual range it is more from then given targeted range so 3000 km is maximum check Dr.Samar interview

 

[ZAC1]

 

[war&peace]

Increasing range is not the problem. Add second and third stage booster and missile can fly halfway around the world. Maintaining missile accuracy and the guidance system is the real challenge.

It is not that simple and it literally requires rocket sience. If it was just the matter of adding stages, each country or at least most of the developing countries would be possessing a few ICBMs. Having said that, Pakistan has the capability to develop an ICBM and a working model was already developed quite some time ago. However it is a matter of resources, need, political committment and decision. I'm sure when the right moment arrives, Pakistan will test this capability too but it can have some serious repercussions on our economy and foreign policy. A strong economy is much more important than a missile that can simply go farther. Right now your declared enemy is India and you have it pretty much covered with Shaheen III and if you would like include Israel also, you have it within your range...What else do you need?

 

[SQ8]

We strongly deny this assessment, the Shaheen-III cannot go an inch beyond the stated range. @Hyperion @Oscar

The missile is designed to deliver a calculated payload size to its published range and nothing beyond it within the CeP.
Anything else is fanboyish delusion at best, wilful misinformation at worst.

 

[Bossman]

Just checked the NASIC's Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat report from 2013

It makes no mention of Shaheen 3 at all

Rather it has stated Babur has a range of 350 KM

http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/nuclearweapons/NASIC2013_050813.pdf

If what is being quoted in the unavailable facebook link is newer version of NASIC report

please provide the link as well.

Besides a lower range actually gives lesser speed.

so whats the point of comparing Cruise Missile with IRBMs, so you are saying that the range of Pakistani missiles is capped at 350 KM? It is OK to be stupid but you don't have to show the whole world that you are stupid

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Yes range could be 5000+ if you take it 3000+ kms close to the target and fire it

One need to understand, physics plays and important role, the coefficient of burn x fuel is not the only calculation to get the range, weight, wind direction, design and playload are other major factors too.

Given that even small achievements are boasted I would not be surprised is 2750 is extended range of S3.

. I hope Indian Strategists think the same way as you do. You should be their chief in my humble opinion.

Interesting how that pic puts the three I s ( India,isarael,iran) in bold. What was Washington post thinking

 

[ZAC1]

The missile is designed to deliver a calculated payload size to its published range and nothing beyond it within the CeP.
Anything else is fanboyish delusion at best, wilful misinformation at worst.

i think you should listen what Dr.Samar Mubarak was saying in its interview ..Targeted Range and maximum range

 

[SQ8]

i think you should listen what Dr.Samar Mubarak was saying in its interview ..Targeted Range and maximum range

I know exactly what Dr Samar is saying, and exactly what I am saying.
The range is 2950KM and not an inch beyond it.

 

[Genghis khan1]

It is not that simple and it literally requires rocket sience. If it was just the matter of adding stages, each country or at least most of the developing countries would be possessing a few ICBMs. Having said that, Pakistan has the capability to develop an ICBM and a working model was already developed quite some time ago. However it is a matter of resources, need, political committment and decision. I'm sure when the right moment arrives, Pakistan will test this capability too but it can have some serious repercussions on our economy and foreign policy. A strong economy is much more important than a missile that can simply go farther. Right now your declared enemy is India and you have it pretty much covered with Shaheen III and if you would like include Israel also, you have it within your range...What else do you need?

Aside from growing Balls for political will, I was talking pure technically, Increasing range is never the problem. Rocket science isn't that hard if you understand basics of engineering physics. Even Hamas can make 40 miles in their basement. It all takes, force balance and jet Propulsion calculations. Normal univeristy physics. Now when we are talking about IRBM and ICBM, the main problem is guiding it to target and atmosphere pressure calculation. Of which I think Pakistan is having trouble with guidance. May be Pakistan might use chinese satellite for their ICBM in future.

 

[Tripoli]

. I hope Indian Strategists think the same way as you do. You should be their chief in my humble opinion.

Interesting how that pic puts the three I s ( India,isarael,iran) in bold. What was Washington post thinking

I can't believe how I didn't notice that. It is indeed mysterious.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Aside from growing Balls for political will, I was talking pure technically, Increasing range is never the problem. Rocket science isn't that hard if you understand basics of engineering physics. Even Hamas can make 40 miles in their basement. It all takes, force balance and jet Propulsion calculations. Normal univeristy physics. Now when we are talking about IRBM and ICBM, the main problem is guiding it to target and atmosphere pressure calculation. Of which I think Pakistan is having trouble with guidance. May be Pakistan might use chinese satellite for their ICBM in future.

Hi dear @Genghis khan1
It isnt really that easy either.We are not talking about DIY rockets but advanced ICBMs that are design to fly more than 5500kms! Let me elaborate based on my own experience-

P.C- Missile guidance and control,George M sioris
Journey of any ICBM can be divided into three (in some literature two) stages-
(a)Powered flight
(b)Free fall
(c) Re-entry
Kindly note that both (b) and (c) are free falling.From a purely control engineering perspective,one would need to select optimum burnout point somewhere around 450-500kms altitude for a specific target. The steering of ICBM from launch point to burnout point is perhaps the most difficult and crucial phase of any ICBM as it has to encounter varying dynamic pressure.Now to understand the reason why is this phase most important,requires some decent amount of aerospace engineering.

Here is a simplified Free body diagram of a ICBM RV,I have resolved forces in perpendicular direction,hence in perpendicular direction
QSCl*cos(Theta-alpha)=W+QSCd*sin(theta-alpha)---------------------------(1)
Kindly note that I've not included thrust, but it'll appear on the LHS of (1).
where Q is the dynamic pressure,
S=surface area
Cl=coefficient of lift=which again can be approximated by Clalpha*alpha
Cd=coefficient of drag= which again can be approximated by Cd0+k*Cl^2
theta=attittude angle or pitch angle
alpha=AoA
gamma=flight path angle(between velocity vector and the local horizontal)---not shown in the pic
Eqn 1 must be balanced all the time,but the missile is constantly accelerated till the burnout point meaning an ever increasing velocity and hence a varying dynamic pressure Q. For (1) to hold and we wish to keep theta at a certain value(as will become apparent later in my explanation),we would have to have some control over alpha. And alpha can be controlled by elevator deflection or actuating the jet vanes(--like shaheen and other older missiles),or by deflecting the nozzle using a servo-mechanism(in agni-4 or agni-5).
Once it has reached the burnout point,the missile should have a requisite velocity and escape angle denoted by fi(subscript bo) in fig-1.These two parameters are determined by the type of elliptic trajectory we want- again depends on mission profile- whether we want a depressed trajectory or a normal min-energy trajectory.These two parameters are so important that a minor deficiency can lead to huge errors later during the re-entry. Kindly note that fi(bo) is closely related to theta above.
The trajectory after burnout point till re-entry is elliptical with centre of earth being at one of the foci,hence normal elliptical equations apply(considering a TWO-BODY PROBLEM!,for three-body problem involving the effect of other bodies,more robust numerical solutions are required).
With initial conditions fi(bo) and v(bo) we can solve the harmonic differential equation(again posing it as two-body problem) to yield the velocity with which it will splash again into atmosphere at the time of re-entry.I have done a simulation for shaheen missile here-->
https://defence.pk/threads/recent-i...-samar-mubarakmand.430471/page-6#post-8334986

Now the challenges for pakistan-
Here in this section of my post,i will briefly touch upon the engineering challenges being faced by pakistan and i am sure my friends @JamD and @The Deterrent would agree and perhaps shed some more light .
1)To cover a larger distance-downrange,missile must have a higher v(bo) and an optimal angle fi(bo) at burnout point.For a larger vi(bo) one would require a larger motor to accelerate the RV from 0(at the time of launching) to vi(bo) at burnout point. Now keeping aside the control challenges,pakistan would have to first fabricate such a big motor that will take a 1tonne payload from 0 to v(bo).This wont be too difficult to achieve(however i believe in tests and pakistan hasnt really shown such big solid rocket motor),However what is difficult to achieve is "weight reduction" by using composite motors and casing--- which is certainly off limits for pakistan at the moment. This in turns requires complex filament winding machines.The composite must be able to withstand the radial pressure exerted during the powered flight regime---unlike a liquid engine,in solid rocket,entire casing undergoes a radial pressure during itz operation.

2)Secondly pakistan would have to improve controls. They would have to let go external surfaces.Currently,pakistani missiles use external surfaces for stabilization and possibly jet vanes for control. This can be replaced by flex-nozzle with servo-mechanism,however it is much more complex arrangement and again none of the pakistani strategic missiles have been tested with this setup. Kindly note that external control surfaces increase drag!