Shadows - Forerunners of Al Dajjal, Freemasons war on Islam

[tarrar]

I think we are currently living in the time of gog and magog ,they are not creature as some people think they are human being like us but their character are bad they spread corruption and we see the proof of that around us .

There is a clear ahadees about them getting released from their captivity by allah by destroying the barrier made by zulkarnain which is mention in quran.

A company of bless shahaba did find the barrier broken in caucasen mountain
And we caucasian people every where in europe and america .

Only shia islam believe that imam mehdi is hidden not ahle sunnat wal jamat . We believe that he will be born in medina .his parents name will be same as the name of bless parents of holy prophet of allah Muhammad pbuh

I agree with you on last part of Mahdi. On Gog & Magog, I will have to do more research on that. What you have said I have heard about it as well.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I will say that you do research & meet proper scholars to discuss this issue.

Ok Tarrar, I do that every day.
Now I will do it even more.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar

I never said that we should never 'read' the Hadith or never consult them altogether ! We should to get an idea of the culture, people & the events of those times to make a 'conjecture' about History without attributing them to God or His Prophet (PBUH) ! But at the same time one can remember that History isn't immune to the influences of the ruling classes & the desires of the prevailing clergy of that time - Hence why even the History, forget about the religious traditions, of Sunnis & Shias are so different about those times !

At any rate if the Prophet (PBUH) & His Companions thought that the Hadith were needed to understand the Koran because the Book is ambiguous in its meaning than surely they would've started this Hadhith Collection back then as it eventually happened with the Koran as opposed to the Hadith taking a codified form nearly 200 years later when the land was soaked in sectarian wars & the Caliphate had devolved into a shameless monarchy !

Surely one might even be justified in asking what is the purpose of separating the 'Koran' from the 'Hadith' if one needs the latter to understand the former ? Surely either the Prophet (PBUH) would've impressed upon his companions to be Hafiz-ul-Hadith as well as being Hafiz-ul-Koran, surely one of the Caliphs would've compiled the Book of Hadiths when they thought about compiling the Book of Koran or perhaps even God Himself would've talked about the need to consult the Hadith to understand the Koran within the Koran itself ?

Is all of that purely coincidental ?

And then theres the very nature of Hadith which has been discussed ad nauseam ! You continue to be fixated on a few 'weak Hadith' whereas I'm talking about not the Hadhith that go against the Koran but the Hadhith who add to the Koran - The one on adultery being the clearest example of it !

If the punishment for adultery was anything more than the one prescribed in the Koran than one of two things follow :

(i) the Koran is incomplete because it didn't mention the whole process of stoning for adultery nor did it talk about a differentiation between the married & the unmarried individuals accused of adultery !

(ii) the Hadith are part of the religious tradition thereby implying that it wasn't One Scripture that Our Prophet (PBUH) came with but Multiple Scriptures including those of the Hadith which incidentally are not only fraught with inconsistencies, hearsay & were compiled over a 150 years after our Prophet 's (PBUH) death but also have glaring similarities with what the Jews & the Christians did where Oral Traditions cropped up to support the Scriptures that were sent to them with the end result being as evident as it is in theirs & our case !

Furthermore the Ace-Analogy would imply that each generation would need 'someone' to tell us what the heck was the previous generation talking about ! That the words of Boyd (or whatever his name was) were actually meant to be 'thus' instead of the meaning that you're taking them to be.

That sounds remarkably similar to the concept of Immamate on one hand or that of the Ahmedi concept of another prophet on the other !

What we could also argue is that we need the Hadith to understand the Koran than what about needing 'something' or 'someone' to understand the Hadith ? Surely something that was written 1200 or so years ago suffers from the same inadequacies in being self-explanatory as that which is written 1400 years ago. One might even argue that whereas there is a consensus on what the Koran is there is next to no consensus on what the so-called Sahih Hadith are with one huge faction of the Muslim Community even refusing to recognize Hadiths attributed to a certain group of people & even when it comes to the so-called Sahih Hadith there are different wordings to the same Sahih Hadith with minor omissions & additions to them - None of which is present in the Koran !

Which means essentially we're trying to understand the Koran through the prism of a source fraught with problems without even asking ourselves whether we need another source to understand the aforementioned source to beginwith ?

Maybe an ecclesiastical order or maybe another prophet ?

But because I find no justification in the Koran for :

(i) Using the Hadith to understand the Koran

(ii) There being an ecclesiastical order in Islam

(iii) Another prophet coming after our Prophet (PBUH)

(iv) Any commandment in the Koran to the effect of relating to the People the Hadith as opposed to it being mentioned numerous times the need to relate the Koran to the People !

I don't know where or how this web is being weaved ?

Because it certainly isn't supported by the Koran nor by human logic !

' @Hyperion @LoveIcon

Ah @Oscar

I a disappointed.
Another Ghazali !

@tarrar what you are saying breaks God's tradition. The sign can not be explicit.

This is beating around the bush as we both have stated that the Hadiath are more historical and less scripture.
All hadiath have to be correlated with the Quran..and if concepts are unclear the idea of Ijma and Qiyas exists.
Again, what you suggest is to brand an entire lineage of scholars.. not 500 years later.. but only generations later as naive and mistaken who were all misled by political ambitions.

There were disagreements even at the time of the Prophet on what particular verses of the Quran meant among various tribes. To resolve these the Prophet would send someone he had taught well.

It would also be pertinent to see whether Hadiath are the sole contributor to sectarian violence or is it disagreement over historical accounts that had NOTHING to do with the Hadiath.

@salman108

Not really sure if your please or disappointment was my goal..
I only state what I believe in, and the eventual judge of it knows all.

 

[ssethii]

This is beating around the bush as we both have stated that the Hadiath are more historical and less scripture.
All hadiath have to be correlated with the Quran..and if concepts are unclear the idea of Ijma and Qiyas exists.
Again, what you suggest is to brand an entire lineage of scholars.. not 500 years later.. but only generations later as naive and mistaken who were all misled by political ambitions.

There were disagreements even at the time of the Prophet on what particular verses of the Quran meant among various tribes. To resolve these the Prophet would send someone he had taught well.

It would also be pertinent to see whether Hadiath are the sole contributor to sectarian violence or is it disagreement over historical accounts that had NOTHING to do with the Hadiath.

@salman108

Not really sure if your please or disappointment was my goal..
I only state what I believe in, and the eventual judge of it knows all.

Sir i think they (those who have difficulty assuming the hadith is also word of God and nothing more) all lack 'aqeedat'.
Which is the basic step in achieving 'Aajzi'.
they might think they consider Quran their true guide but truly what they follow is their "mighty brain".

 

[SQ8]

Sir i think they (those who have difficulty assuming the hadith is also word of God and nothing more) all lack 'aqeedat'.
Which is the basic step in achieving 'Aajzi'.
they might think they consider Quran their true guide but truly what they follow is their "mighty brain".

It has to be Submission with Understanding.. but the biggest issue is the misuse of Hadiath for political or personal purposes.
Again, that is only solved with study of the subject from both a spiritual and historical perspective.

 

[tarrar]

Ok Tarrar, I do that every day.
Now I will do it even more.

If you are truly living in KSA then the best thing to do is to meet Arab Scholars they can tell you proper history & their knowledge will help you.

 

[Mitro]

Give me some time i will try to find ahadees about gog and magog inshallah.

I agree with you on last part of Mahdi. On Gog & Magog, I will have to do more research on that. What you have said I have heard about it as well.

 

[Mitro]

Kul in kuntum tuhiboonal laaha fattabi'ooni yuh'bibkumul laahu - "Say (O Muhammad to them), if you love Allah follow me, Allah will love you." (Surah Ale Imraan: Verse 31)

With out hadees how can a muslim follow prophet Muhammad PBUH .allah can guide anybody without any means or zariya but its Allah's Sunnah to create a means like Prophets to lead with example to make it easy for the believer to follow him .

Sir i think they (those who have difficulty assuming the hadith is also word of God and nothing more) all lack 'aqeedat'.
Which is the basic step in achieving 'Aajzi'.
they might think they consider Quran their true guide but truly what they follow is their "mighty brain".

 

[Mitro]

We have to understand the purpose of our creation i.e to worship the almighty Allah with understanding and recognising him ,
as much as we recognize the creator we worship more and we come close to allah.

If any hadees contradict quran leave that hadees and move on .

It has to be Submission with Understanding.. but the biggest issue is the misuse of Hadiath for political or personal purposes.
Again, that is only solved with study of the subject from both a spiritual and historical perspective.

 

[rockstar08]

Strengthen your IMAN guys the END is very close

if you dont believe me just go and read the signs before Judgement day .... we will soon making a assembly in MAIDAN-E-HASHER

 

[ssethii]

@Oscar

I never said that we should never 'read' the Hadith or never consult them altogether ! We should to get an idea of the culture, people & the events of those times to make a 'conjecture' about History without attributing them to God or His Prophet (PBUH) ! But at the same time one can remember that History isn't immune to the influences of the ruling classes & the desires of the prevailing clergy of that time - Hence why even the History, forget about the religious traditions, of Sunnis & Shias are so different about those times !

At any rate if the Prophet (PBUH) & His Companions thought that the Hadith were needed to understand the Koran because the Book is ambiguous in its meaning than surely they would've started this Hadhith Collection back then as it eventually happened with the Koran as opposed to the Hadith taking a codified form nearly 200 years later when the land was soaked in sectarian wars & the Caliphate had devolved into a shameless monarchy !

' @Hyperion @LoveIcon

The hadith was collected and written down at that time also but due to the fact that Quran was not completed and there was a possibility that the Quran and hadith might get mixed up it was ordered by our beloved Prophet(S.A.W) to stop writing Hadith until Quran takes its final shape.

See this collection of Hadith is not so simple it's a complete subject to deal with and there is a separate branch in sharia law and Islamic studies that deals only with the science of Hadith and co-relating them.

Quran in itself is a complete book and it is for people to read and understand no matter which age they belong to what is their status and know-how of Islam. Without Quran there is no beauty of hadith as an independent scripture, it only complements Quran.

To sum it up if someone is going to define hard and fast rules of sharia he has to refer to hadith viz-a-viz Quran.
But if the person wants to get sawab/benefit(spirtual) and seek wisdom(and other countless benefits) he will just go through Quran(along with its translation for 'simple' understanding).

 

[Sinnerman108]

@Oscar

Disappointed, very disappointed.
The Ghazali Vs Rushd debate will keep playing till the end of time. I was expecting you to be on Rushd's side.
@tarrar
There is no reson
to put the saudi Flag there if I am not really in Saudi !
I detest these scholars and I find them lacking substance, true will and rationality.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar

Disappointed, very disappointed.
The Ghazali Vs Rushd debate will keep playing till the end of time. I was expecting you to be on Rushd's side.
@tarrar
There is no reson
to put the saudi Flag there if I am not really in Saudi !
I detest these scholars and I find them lacking substance, true will and rationality.

I take no one's side.. I have my own.

 

[Huda]

In my view, worrying overmuch about Dajjal accomplishes nothing by itself. If someone wishes to actually do something about it, they would be better off memorizing first few verses (10?) of Suratul Kahaf. Beyond that there is nothing concrete or certain as to what can be done. If Allah so decrees, nothing can stop Dajjal except what Allah chooses. Watching videos or reading books is not going to do anything. Its better to read Hadith as a believer than as a strategist.

I also heard that recitation of first 10 verses of Surah Kahf could protect us from Dajjal's fitnah.

 

[Huda]

Muslims should move forward to 21st century. These things i.e. dajjal, heaven or hell are so much embeded repeatedly in muslim mindset that even highly educated muslim can't see beyond them and lose ability to think rationally & freely. Religion are just for spituality feelings, nothing more and in actual religion create divides. It create issues when you consider religious guidence literaly. So muslims must move forward from 7th to 21st centuary.

No one saw heaven or hell. Everything is on earth and you have to pay for your deeds here on earth itself. Its you who makes your life heaven or hell.

Thank you for your words but we aren't here to take advice from non-muslim regarding our beliefs.

If you wrote that muslim should see things according to current era it would be okay but you don't have any right to point a finger at muslim's concepts about dajjal,heaven etc etc