Set Kashmir aside, focus on trade

[keeninterest]

well if the person on the street had reacted would it not have got the attention of the media and headlines, or is the media oblivious of what is happening in your country.

5 years or 1 year does it make a difference, if it is an official stand, well my dear lady then it says a lot, and it is enough for us . may be pakistanis are taking a cue from the Chinese, trade makes better sense coz if the inflation is close to double digit then the common man has more chances of coming to the streets, i am sure it will be a little difficult for people in the starting to accept but with time people accept the reality, dont they.


and hey what eva, we still like u haan!

 

[ImranKhan]

Dear Imran,

Are you aware that Jinnah was also a westernised alcohol drinking and pork eating person who gave you Pakistan ? The simpeltons who voted for zardari also voted for the Gen M a few years back. Why did you not criticse them then ? Have u seen Gen M's hotel bill for two days stay in London ? I thinks its time to move on and let Zardari do his job. You never know he may have learnt his lessons and may do a real good job.

Regards

Dear Always Neutral

There is a difference between westernized and western educated, case in point Syed Qutab, Alama Iqbal and Mohandas Gandhi. And you can eat pork and drink alcohol and not be Westernized, just ask our good neighbors in the north .Besides I read all about Jinnah hence I called along with Iqbal "activists" and not warriors or saints The is difference between Jinnah and the current swine eating, alcohol drinking, adulterating plunderers(especially regarding the adulterating& plundering which all agree Jinnah never did). Jinnah wasn't a hypocrite; vary open about being from Ismali sect (in which Jinnah was born) and Khoja Shiism (to which Jinnah converted), never hid that he drank or liked eating pork meat, never tried to play down or justified his dietary habits, in short he was a weak Muslim but unlike Zardari, Bhutto or General Pervaz "kamalist enlightened moderation" Musharraf he was not a Hypocrite.

As I said before the people of Pakistan are either really simple or have a fetish for socio-economic torture since all they do is vote for corrupt opportunist politicians or support corrupt opportunities general when they usurp power. And here is another thing I don't understand, I know people of south-asia love political dynasties, be it India or Bangladesh or Pakistan, so why the public didn’t turned the country upside down and hanged Ayub khan in the open when Fatima Jinnah lost an obviously manipulated election, wasn't she part of the "Jinnah political dynasty"??You don't have to be a rocket scientist to deduce that the sister of the founder of the country who worked tirelessly along his side be a better leader? What about Sikandar Ali Jinnah, Khursheed Begum or Mohammad Ali? We all know how they live and how are they treated, apparently their grand-daddy care too much about Muslims of subcontinent to leave them behind any property or wealth since he spend it all for the Muslim nation. Compare this to the bhutto-zaradries, sharifs and musharrfs that the public vote and support. But like I said most of the the Pakistani public is pathetic and stupid and deserve all that it gets. If the history of the surrounding countries indicate anything then there will be alot more starved-out,bullet-riddled and bombed-out dead bodies in the streets before you can get some decent and sincere leadership that can make this country work.

Sincerely

 

[MOSABJA]

The problem with Kashmir issue is Wullar barrage,Baglihar dam,Kishenganga dam.


Conceding Kashmir to India would mean an enormous strategic loos tp pakstan.

If Indians want friendship and they have good intentions then why build these dams on rivers???

So in my view Kashmir is the jagular vein of Pakistan.Pakistans water come through it.

pakistan only has two options.

1)Try to pressurize India to respect Indus water treaty.

2)If not then we should ask China to divert the Indus,Sutlej so that they reach us before even passing through India.
Besides it if Indians divert Chenab jhelum .

We can square it off with the co operation with China .We can ask them to divert Ghaghara or Gandaki.

 

[BATMAN]

Dear Imran,
Are you aware that Jinnah was also a westernised alcohol drinking and pork eating person who gave you Pakistan ?

Said who? And what are you trying to imply with such a piece of information ?
Does this means Mullahs are more pleasing to anti-Pakistan elemets?

There were leaders in history of nations who drank urine but still they are celebrated but you never discussed him, why?

The simpeltons who voted for zardari also voted for the Gen M a few years back. Why did you not criticse them then ?

We thought they did the right thing than!
BTW, where were you looking for our comments, at that time?

Have u seen Gen M's hotel bill for two days stay in London ? I thinks its time to move on and let Zardari do his job. You never know he may have learnt his lessons and may do a real good job.

Have you noticed any hank panky in the bill?

Call it law of the jungle: Ruling benches are always subjected to scrutiny but why are you so keen to move on without any scrutiny, what so ever.
He faked the will of her wife and installed as PPP chairman in a most undemocratic way, later begged votes in the name of her dead wife!
Such character can be your favorite, Indian favorite but not mine?

 

[BATMAN]

Kashmiris angry, distrust Pakistan's parties

SRINAGAR, India (Reuters) - Kashmiris accused Pakistani political parties on Monday of turning their back on them and their struggle against Indian occupation after last month's elections in Pakistan.

Anger simmered in Kashmir after Asif Ali Zardari, leader of the Pakistan People's Party (PPP), told an Indian television channel that relations between India and Pakistan should not be held "hostage" to the Kashmir issue.

Zardari angered Kashmiris when he said the two countries could wait so that future generations resolve the dispute in an atmosphere of trust.

"Zardari is ready to sell us to India like chickens," said 25-year-old student Gouse Mohammad. "I don't expect much from other leaders, they want to please India."

The PPP and Nawaz Sharif's Pakistan Muslim League won most of the seats in last month's elections and are negotiating to form a coalition government, with issues like Kashmir on the backburner for the moment.

Furious at some of the statements, separatist groups in Kashmir said they would continue their struggle with or without Islamabad's support.

"It looks like PPP is backing out, but let me (make) clear to Islamabad, with or without the support of Pakistan, our freedom struggle will reach its logical end," said Shabir Ahmad Shah, a senior separatist leader.

"We will continue our fight, and occupation will not last forever."

The 19-year-old separatist revolt in the disputed Himalayan region has killed more than 42,000 people, officials estimate.

India accuses Pakistan of arming, training and funding Kashmiri rebels, but Islamabad says it only provides "moral, political and diplomatic support".

Few Kashmiris were enthusiastic about the restoration of democracy in Pakistan.

"Zardari and Sharif are stooges of India, how can we expect support from them if they form a new government in Pakistan?" said Farooq Shah, a Kashmiri shopkeeper.

"Gone are the days when Kashmir was Pakistan's jugular vein."

There has been little substantial progress on the Kashmir dispute since India and Pakistan, who rule the region in parts, launched a peace process in 2004.
But violence involving separatist militants and Indian soldiers has fallen significantly.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani, a hard line separatist leader, said Pakistan had abandoned Kashmir long before these elections.

"It is not the future government ... after 9/11, the Pakistan government has taken a U-turn on Kashmir. Pakistan should do some rethinking and support the Kashmiri cause," he said.

Pakistan came under renewed international pressure over its support for Kashmiri militants in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States and global condemnation of terrorism.

But Indian government officials in Kashmir said they hoped democracy in Pakistan would help normalize relations.
"People are tired of violence and they are now worried about economic issues and want peace for progress and prosperity," said Kashmir's social welfare minister, Abdul Gani Vakil.

Even blinds can see who is sponsoring Sharif and Zardari.

 

[MOSABJA]

Kashmiris angry, distrust Pakistan's parties



Even blinds can see who is sponsoring Sharif and Zardari.

Yeah Zardari has turned a blind eye.

But I dont think same is true for NS since he has RIGHTIST roots.

If Musharraf hadnt stabbed Kashmiris in their back and wouldnt have tacken a U TURN then situation would have been different.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Jana

Dont try to live in fantasies dear. As i am not talking about the reaction of Pakistani masses towards Asif Zardari's statment i was talking about our media.

Above all we are not accepting this fantasy that there is no soultion to Kashmir problem.
We do believe in right of freedom of Kashmiris and we do believe that the land of Kashmiris should be given back to them which was illegaly occupied by India and the Indian army using the same land for lashing brutalities on innocent Kashmiris.

As far the official stand of the new government of Pakistan well my dear Suppose even it becomes so, the government will be for five years not forever.

But that too if it becomes the official stand in the first place.

As far change well who knows the strategic intrest of world powers will not be in the area in coming years.

As a Muslim at least i never give up hope :pakflag:

I am sorry but I think as an Indian I have equal rights over kashmir as a kashmiri has over my state .. Kashmir was not occupied but has been with us for ages.. I repeat what I stated in another thread as a reply to you. Indian Kashmir is an integral part of India . We don't care what your ideology or your ideals are. It is not worth giving away a huge mass of land after years of fighting just because there is a low level skirmishes which pales in comparison to major regional conflicts such as Chechneya, bosnia or srilanka , so we can live with such conflict. A all out war is not feasable for both sides and we are not interested in Azad kashmir so an all out war for kashmir will be from pakistani side for Indian Kashmir and I dont think that is feasable for you either.
so let bygons be bygons, let us be sensible enough to convert the LOC into IB and let us be partners in development.

I fail to understand why people like you feel that you are the vangaurds of freedom moments.. There is a movement going on Chechenya, can pakistan do anything about it, how about palestinian conflict or bosnian conflict. At Srilanka there is a conflict between ethnic Tamils and SL army .. I live in Tamilnadu and I have never once in my life come across any rallies or promotional drives in support of LTTE.

But after all these if Pakistan thinks that it can get Indian Kashmir, be our guest.
Frankly let us convert LOC TO IB and let us live in peace

cheers

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Well you know when India is standing with a hose on the Kashmir issue, aiming for a simmer isn't really the smart way forward.

You need to raise the issue in every venue. The goal HAS to be 'naak main dum'.

Of course do not sideline the other bilateral issues. But each activity should be wrapped around a hundred Free Kashmir initiatives. Zardari's party is elected. If he thinks Pakistanis want any unrealistic, unfair compromise, he's dead wrong.

Exactly.

Read my post again and read my lips!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Kashmiris angry, distrust Pakistan's parties



Even blinds can see who is sponsoring Sharif and Zardari.

Cal me Bwana!

Who is sponsoring?

If Zardari and NS have won the elections, is it suggesting that the majority of Pakistanis are BLIND?

 

[EagleEyes]

Cal me Bwana!

Who is sponsoring?

If Zardari and NS have won the elections, is it suggesting that the majority of Pakistanis are BLIND?

Pakistan's stand on Kashmir doesn't change just because of what Zardari says, and so far he hasn't said anything major. All he said.. is that Kashmir issue will be looked later on (and he is nobody to say that either). NS hasn't said anything.. nor ANY of the ELECTED political parties.

Therefore, making various assumptions is not a wise thing to do.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I am not making any assumptions.

I am merely stating that it is an incorrect statement that was posted as thus:

"Even blinds can see who is sponsoring Sharif and Zardari."

No one can sponsor anyone because the awam will see through the game and to state that the awam cannot see through the game would be insulting to the electorate, be it of any country.

 

[Awesome]

In one quick shot Zardari has put a big question mark in the hearts of Kashmiris about our commitment to Kashmir.

Our Awam only acts as a mob. Reacting every 5 years or so.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The problem with Kashmir issue is Wullar barrage,Baglihar dam,Kishenganga dam.


Conceding Kashmir to India would mean an enormous strategic loos tp pakstan.

If Indians want friendship and they have good intentions then why build these dams on rivers???

So in my view Kashmir is the jagular vein of Pakistan.Pakistans water come through it.

pakistan only has two options.

1)Try to pressurize India to respect Indus water treaty.

2)If not then we should ask China to divert the Indus,Sutlej so that they reach us before even passing through India.
Besides it if Indians divert Chenab jhelum .

We can square it off with the co operation with China .We can ask them to divert Ghaghara or Gandaki.

Why not?

If diverting the a river was that easy wherein it reaches Pakistan before it goes through India, then it would have been done long ago!

Desires and actualities are two different things!

Take the waters out of Kashmir and you would have lost thinking that Kashmir is yours, forever!

Or have I missed something?

 

[salman nedian]

The Question is who will be most benefitted with the open trade?

I think trade liberalization can be a win-win situation for the 2 similar kinds of economies so that they can exchange their resources for the benefit of the people.

But what if one side has a huge economy and the other has an average one?

Zardaari….. Well I am speechless about him.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

India and China are not similar economies, neither is it with Europe and the US.

There must be some benefits or esle why should they trade?