Serving Two Masters: Shariah Law and the Secular State

[greatsequence]

when the taliban in pakistan and afghanistan enforce some of those laws many of us moan, but now here we defend the religious state.

Most of them dont have any idea of governance and modern judicial requirements. If it is done by people who have some experience in this matter it can be done.

 

[Ahmad]

Most of them dont have any idea of governance and modern judicial requirements. If it is done by people who have some experience in this matter it can be done.

it's applying the hodood. everythig is straightforward, have witnesses and apply the law.

 

[The Clarifier]

when the taliban in pakistan and afghanistan enforce some of those laws many of us moan, but now here we defend the religious state.

Don't confuse Taliban's uneducated bigotry with the Shariah Law. Please tell me- what does the Taliban reinforce that is in common with the Shariah Law?

 

[Ahmad]

Don't confuse Taliban's uneducated bigotry with the Shariah Law. Please tell me- what does the Taliban reinforce that is in common with the Shariah Law?

execution for murder, chopping off hands, adultry punishment etc.

 

[The Clarifier]

execution for murder, chopping off hands, adultry punishment etc.

Execution for murder= This is wrong because?
Chopping off hands= How is this wrong?
Adultery punishment= See above

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

Jinnah's vision of a secular state is dead in the water, Zia imposed his wahabi ideology on the masses which has now backfired.

Excuse me ......... Quaid never allowed her daughter to step in pakistan she was banned ...... why banned bcuz she married to a non-muslim (a Hindu) and you say quaid's vision of a secular state .....
a interview conducted by british media to Quaid and after the interview journalist to his column ..... Quaid-i-Azam is a that sword of islam covered in hole of secularism which can cut anything without coming out of its hole

Iqbal had a vision to acknowledge him as a great leader to the MUSLIMS of Sub-Continent that is why he called him back from england.......why didnt Iqbal chose any leader with Beared ........
this is just a conspiracy spread by some of the moderate so called muslims

 

[Ahmad]

Execution for murder= This is wrong because?
Chopping off hands= How is this wrong?
Adultery punishment= See above

what if there is a wrong conviction and person is executed for something he hasent done? why should we make somebody handicaped because he stole, he can be surely punished, but not to take his limbs away from him.

 

[Dr Lakhani]

Excuse me ......... Quaid never allowed her daughter to step in pakistan she was banned ...... why banned bcuz she married to a non-muslim (a Hindu) and you say quaid's vision of a secular state .....
a interview conducted by british media to Quaid and after the interview journalist to his column ..... Quaid-i-Azam is a that sword of islam covered in hole of secularism which can cut anything without coming out of its hole

Iqbal had a vision to acknowledge him as a great leader to the MUSLIMS of Sub-Continent that is why he called him back from england.......why didnt Iqbal chose any leader with Beared ........
this is just a conspiracy spread by some of the moderate so called muslims

Sir Jinnah was a secular man that is why he picked a hindu to compose Pakistan's first national anthem. Jinnah's gujarati background caste is the same as mine his grandfather, Poonja Gokuldas Meghji, was a Hindu Bhatia Rajput.

Jinnah was also fond of bombay and had many hindu friends there and his present house he built was in the posh Malabar Hill now known as Jinnah house.

Jinnah said one is free to worship as a hindu, christian, sikh etc in Pakistan but now in Pakistan there is blasphemy law and daily attacks on minorites like ahemdis and shias im sure Jinnah would be turning in his grave if he saw this.

 

[Karachiite]

Excuse me ......... Quaid never allowed her daughter to step in pakistan she was banned ...... why banned bcuz she married to a non-muslim (a Hindu) and you say quaid's vision of a secular state .....
a interview conducted by british media to Quaid and after the interview journalist to his column ..... Quaid-i-Azam is a that sword of islam covered in hole of secularism which can cut anything without coming out of its hole

Iqbal had a vision to acknowledge him as a great leader to the MUSLIMS of Sub-Continent that is why he called him back from england.......why didnt Iqbal chose any leader with Beared ........
this is just a conspiracy spread by some of the moderate so called muslims

Tell me what is wrong with secularism? It separates religion from politics which is necessary. Quaid e Azam was very much secular. Please listen to Quaid's August 11th speech.

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

Tell me what is wrong with secularism? It separates religion from politics which is necessary. Quaid e Azam was very much secular. Please listen to Quaid's August 11th speech.

i can give you more than one speach where quaid talked about much about islam........and there are lots of bugs in secularism when you have islam and everything in it then you dont need to see here and there ....... what did you get outta secularisam till now ......... i can count you trillions of blessing which we got from caliphate .... i dont want to argue ....because when you have QURRAN PAK with you and you dont want to get anything outta that BOOK ....... then you cannt be helped ....... ALLAH has given all the things which human should ask ........... what HE hasnt given us is just HADAYAT and you will get it only if you ask ...... i seek for it and pray for other muslims brothers and sisters ...............
KHILAFAT PAKISTAN KA MUQADAR HAY ............
pakistan came into being in the name of islam
and there will be Shariah sooner or later but there will be INSHALLAH ........ i wish i remain alive to see those days AMEEN ............another golden ERA for muslims in world ..................

 

[The Clarifier]

what if there is a wrong conviction and person is executed for something he hasent done?

Then that is not right. I am aware of what the Taliban do. They convict whoever they choose and fabricate witnesses (and, if there are none, they convict the person they want dead anyway). A properly implemented Shariah Law must have a strong justice system, which uses witnesses and evidences.

why should we make somebody handicaped because he stole, he can be surely punished, but not to take his limbs away from him.

The purpose of punishment is so that the person avoids the crime. Say, for example, someone wants to steal your car. Would they not be more compelled to do it if they knew that, if caught, they would go to jail for a few years instead of losing their limbs?

Severe punishments are the best ways to deter someone from crime. The point is not to bring someone pain, but to make someone avoid the crime altogether.

 

[deckingraj]

I'll give you the example. A population and welfare minister in a European county was found to be too slow to act in her capacity to promote abortion. When questioned, she said she was a Catholic, and her job was incongruous with her beliefs.

Society comes out of individuals, it can't be secular when the individuals are not.

Thanks.

What???? Because she is not able to do her job properly are you concluding that secularism is unnatural???? Buddy secularism is very natural and i will go to the limits of saying that every religion promotes secularism..Live and let live is taught in every religion known to mankind.....It is just the interpretation is different...For example - people have screwed the definition of Jihad in Islam whereas Islam like any other religion is a religion for peaceful living..

Anyways i strongly believe religious freedom is one's own and there should not be any set rules for that...As long as my actions are not hurting others and my conscious is clean i am all fine....Secularism s the way to go for peaceful co-existence having mutual respect....

 

[GreenStar]

Every Muslim should believe in Shariah, and it is not an outdated system. There is not one single country in this world that has proper Shariah law, it's quite sad, but hopefully one day Pakistan or any other Muslim country will be able to accomplish such a feat.

 

[ajpirzada]

shari3a or The Law is the law that accepts that Allah alone, who created us all, has the capability and the right to make laws that govern us. It is the law, or the state system, that has been exposed to humankind through a select few among us.

We Muslims believe that The Law is not dead, as Paul claims, and The Covenent is still holding. The rules sent a while ago through Moses AS, and later somewhat modified through Muhammad SAW, still are the rules by which we are meant to deal amongst ourselves - form governments, run economies, make war, inherit, coalesce into families, consume food etc.

these are not the specifics... Ok. all the authority lies with Allah alone. lets move forward and ask now wat?
justice, equality and freedom has to be dispensed by the people alone. Allah is not gonna come down to help us govern our country.

instead of fighting over shariah law and secular law, we should start with the common things which are common in both. Justice, Equality and Freedom. and this is what Jinnah wanted and this is what everyone else wants.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

these are not the specifics... Ok. all the authority lies with Allah alone. lets move forward and ask now wat?
justice, equality and freedom has to be dispensed by the people alone. Allah is not gonna come down to help us govern our country.

instead of fighting over shariah law and secular law, we should start with the common things which are common in both. Justice, Equality and Freedom. and this is what Jinnah wanted and this is what everyone else wants.

Now what... AJ now the whole game begins... Now we get bound by the laws of islam... We dont just verbally acknowledge (like we do in Pakistan) and do nothing to implement the rules that are well known and understood...

Now we dont allow dacoits to sit in the parliament and make laws stipulating that its ok to be Mr 110 percent...

Now we put such people in jail... as for Zardari even the secularists here would agree with me... Lets chop his hand off