Serious Problems With Oplot Surfaced During Trials..

[Dazzler]

So, you suggest it quality control issue ?. Or Tank show far less terrain endurance in long term test. I know UD is PA service for long time.

Quality control issue for the most part. Otherwise the oplot can be a great weapon system.

 

[HAIDER]

Quality control issue for the most part. Otherwise the oplot can be a great weapon system.

These issues are from first ordered inventory ?

 

[Dazzler]

These issues are from first ordered inventory ?

Yes, and the oplot has not returned to further trials since.

 

[HAIDER]

Yes, and the oplot has not returned to further trials since.

Any reason , why after so many years?.. I think they are in exercise range year long . If I am not wrong , once year they go to 502 workshop for different issues. If Kharian has full maintenance workshop for these machine.

 

[Dazzler]

Any reason , why after so many years?.. I think they are in exercise range year long . If I am not wrong , once year they go to 502 workshop for different issues. If Kharian has full maintenance workshop for these machine.

We dont any Oplots yet. You meant t-80UD that is serviced at 502 shops once a year?

 

[HAIDER]

We dont any Oplots yet. You meant t-80UD that is serviced at 502 shops once a year?

sorry my fault , i mixed up with UD. But Oplot last around year ago came from Ukraine for testing ...

 

[PAR 5]

Because its engine and some of the electronics failed during desert high temperature trials. These tanks are built mainly for cold weather ops and its difficult to get them operational in hot weather environments. Second problem is again the Galol Mobil Oil for the engine that can only be purchased from a single manufacturer in Ukraine. Pakistan has had the same problem with the T-80UD's purchased earlier from Ukraine as well.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Check the videos in the link, the tank has problems with autoloader, FCS, wire insulation among other sensors..


https://defence-blog.com/army/ukraine-trying-hide-info-t-84-tanks-problems.html

Most of the these issues due to lack of quality control during production...Nice tank if build as per standards.

@Zarvan
That is why Russian and Ukrainian weapons not trusted since there is huge corruption and lacks of quality and control during production phases.
This is the reason Pakistani armed forces prefer US weapons over Russian products.

 

[Shabi1]

Check the videos in the link, the tank has problems with autoloader, FCS, wire insulation among other sensors..


https://defence-blog.com/army/ukraine-trying-hide-info-t-84-tanks-problems.html

The links say T-84 no where is Oplot written and the particular tank looks old and worn out from the inside, seriously doubt its a recently built tank. T-84 has several variants, with the most common being T-84U and Ukrainian armed forces has only 10 T-84 Oplot tanks. We know that the Oplot failed in Pakistan which is why a newer version the Oplot-M/P was to be sent.

 

[blueazure]

ukranian T84 came last in europe tank competition in germany.

problems were, autloader, gun computer failing to hit targets beyond one km.

please check Grafenwoehr tank trials

 

[Arsalan]

@Dazzler nice find!
If i correctly understood the problems, they are more like quality assurance/quality control rather than any technical glitches. Meaning that these will be addressed OR can be addressed just by paying some attention or may be a few extra $$$! Given the position Ukrainians find themselves in, i wont be surprised if they used some average or below average parts of the tank to bring down the prices for us, they would have known about our situation as well and unlike some, they knew that money will ALWAYS be a factor. Personally, i think that if (and its a hugeeeee IF) Pakistan do opt for Oplot these issues wont be a big problem and we will surely take care of these, esp if we decide to make these at HIT. Even if we buy these directly from Ukraine, made in Ukraine, a good quality control team can make sure everything is functioning properly. The real problem or question here as far as i am concerned is, HOW ARE WE PLANNING TO GET THESE? I mean, HIT is already way under capacity with the AK manufacturing. THe numbers being rolled out is far less than desirable. Same case from Ukrainians where they also failed to meet the ordered numbers just recently and given their situation, i do not see them overcoming this anytime soon, they production rates there too will be slow and the deliveries late. So how exactly will be plan to induct these in a half decent number in a very decent time frame? No idea!!

Another important thing as @Bilal Khan (Quwa) also mentioned is that the tanks we are considering are very similar to already developed AK-I. To be honest, if wishes were horses, i would want HIT to go on and make a slightly heavier and more advanced AK-II and for Al Haider, either go for a lighter weight tank with some good electronics OR if in similar weight category, go for an open structure design that will form the base of future armored vehicles like tank, IFV, APC, recovery vehicles etc. Something along the basic concept of ARMATA!

 

[volatile]

With Ukraine i smell Corruption already the issue of broken down engines

https://southfront.org/30-pakistani-al-khalid-tanks-broke-faulty-ukrainian-supplied-machine-oil/

 

[Cookie Monster]

IMO ... what is the point of the Haider program when the MBTs the PAA looked at are so structurally similar to the AK2?

From the weight (50-55 tons), gun type, armour tech, etc, there doesn't seem to be much in Haider other than accelerating new MBT procurement. However, HIT's output isn't exactly at full capacity either, so this need to import another - and broadly similar - MBT type makes limited sense.

Heck, the VT4 itself is a descendant of the same MBT-2000 platform of the AK-series; the AK2 could functionally be similar to the VT4, if not better in some respects (e.g. 1,500 hp vs 1,300 hp engine).

If the PA wants to pursue a parallel MBT, then it should be a markedly different design to the AK2. In other words, either examine a lower-cost design to build up numbers (e.g. fitting a tracked IFV with a turret and gun) OR go heavy, e.g. Altay.

If it would be markedly different then it wouldn't have much commonality with AK. Shouldn't PA aim to have as much commonality as possible between Al-Khalid/Al-Haider while aiming for a high/low combo?(Al-Haider being the high end).

 

[Armchair]

IMO ... what is the point of the Haider program when the MBTs the PAA looked at are so structurally similar to the AK2?

From the weight (50-55 tons), gun type, armour tech, etc, there doesn't seem to be much in Haider other than accelerating new MBT procurement. However, HIT's output isn't exactly at full capacity either, so this need to import another - and broadly similar - MBT type makes limited sense.

Heck, the VT4 itself is a descendant of the same MBT-2000 platform of the AK-series; the AK2 could functionally be similar to the VT4, if not better in some respects (e.g. 1,500 hp vs 1,300 hp engine).

If the PA wants to pursue a parallel MBT, then it should be a markedly different design to the AK2. In other words, either examine a lower-cost design to build up numbers (e.g. fitting a tracked IFV with a turret and gun) OR go heavy, e.g. Altay.

The only and reasonable logical conclusion is that the AK is a lemon. To cover this relative failure, they are window-dressing it by keeping production at a very low rate, while trying to find an excuse to import alternatives.

 

[Dazzler]

The only and reasonable logical conclusion is that the AK is a lemon. To cover this relative failure, they are window-dressing it by keeping production at a very low rate, while trying to find an excuse to import alternatives.

Not true at all. Had that be the case, they would have capped the production of Ak with the base model (450 mbts). That didnt happen. In fact, the AK-1 production is now in full swing.

The biggest concern is budget along with the fact that despite working in three shifts, HIT will still churn out 50 tanks a year.

PA needs to replace at least 300 obsolete mbts (non upgraded 59s and 69s) with third generation assets. At 50 mbt per year, how many years will it take to replace them all?

Six damn years!

The links say T-84 no where is Oplot written and the particular tank looks old and worn out from the inside, seriously doubt its a recently built tank. T-84 has several variants, with the most common being T-84U and Ukrainian armed forces has only 10 T-84 Oplot tanks. We know that the Oplot failed in Pakistan which is why a newer version the Oplot-M/P was to be sent.

Malashev plant only manufacturers t-84 Oplots, no other variant is in production. Yes, the Oplot is a radically modernized t-84.