Secularism vs Islamism (in Pakistan)

[Awesome]

what made you think that secularism doesn't work in India?

If you have 1,000s of examples to prove your point, I've CRORES of example to prove that Secularism is successful in INDIA and it is the source of all our strength!

This thread is about Secularism in Pakistan - NOT India.

Pakistanis for all its history have ONLY voted for Secular parties as compared to the many many parties that compete on grounds of implementation of Shariah.

 

[StingRoy]

Ok lets assume your comment as right, then tell me Why Secularism doesnt work in INDIA?????????

Either you want to start another debate which deserves its own thread or you just don't understand how secularism works. The constitution of India does not mention religion anywhere and thats the basis of our secularism.. people of all religion are treated equal. Of course an open and democratic mechanism cannot be perfect, but the constitution does not bar or give preferences to any particular religion.
People of all religion are welcome to be a part of the governance and the religion of some of the people who have held the highest government ranks are a proof that India is a successful democratic and secular state.
Cheers

 

[Kavin]

This thread is about Secularism in Pakistan - NOT India.

Pakistanis for all its history have ONLY voted for Secular parties as compared to the many many parties that compete on grounds of implementation of Shariah.

Sorry!

I just replied to Jana who brought Indian secularism in to this thread.

O.K. Back to the topic..

 

[ASQ-1918]

is there any difference between your country and western country, some time ago, your country itself belonged to the western empire, how can your nation behave like a muslim country if you dont have any muslim in you and have adopted all western values.

it always happens that "weak nation" which cannot progress copy the strong nation btw, so as long as we have a powerful developed and educated west the world will copy them and they will be always right. this is also called inferiority complex of poor and weak nations.

when communism was strong the communist government of soviets was strong many nations were copying them, were soviet collapsed all popular communist movements ceased to exist.

If you talk about "my" country specifically, we established the Secular form in 1918. It was the first ever in Muslim world and also before many Christian countries.

And we were never a part of any Western Empire...

I fail to realize what has secularism to do with "Islamic" belief. Secularism means equality anyway. Anyone is free to do what they want to believe in and it dosen't makes a nation any less Muslim...

 

[ASQ-1918]

Sharia is the best form of government! Get a life, and don't post such lies here!

Islam as it is, the real Islam should be forbidding Sharia Law.

It dosen't values anything, how can that be connected to GOD?

You have a very wrong mindset.

 

[Wounded Healer]

@ all,

Sharia Law, cannot be implemented in these times. It must have the proper environment to be implemented in. e.g. A common mis-conception is that sharia was implemented in the time of our beloved prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Well, that is wrong. Sharia Law was first introduced by Hazrat Umar, who, upon recognizing the right circumstances, implemented it.

The right or correct environment means when all the people living in a state are prosperous and no one is needy and poor. Throughout our Islamic history, that has only happenned in Hazrat Umer's time. imagine cutting off the hand of someone who steals some money just to buy food for his starving children, well, that cannot happen today. But it did happen in Hazrat Umer's time as all the people living under his government were prosperous and if anyone stole anything, it was out of pure jealousy. In Hazrat Umer's time, their was no one left to give zakat to.........get my point?

And no muslim country has implemented Sharia Law, my friends, not even Saudi Arabia.

As far as Secularism and Islam go,well, in reality secularism is what islamic system of governance is based upon, although with some minor changes. Islam gives protection, freedom and all the rights to all the religions in the world. But the government must follow Islamic political system,which,after extensive study of the different political systems of the world(by me ofcourse), is the best system anyone can opt.

p.s.
one of our esteemed collegue said that the only reason islam was thriving before was because those people adhered to islamic/sharia law. Well my friend, i hate to burst ur bubble but that is just plain wrong. The golden era of islam was due to hard work by some people and the freedom that the governments, at those times, allowed their people. But the most important reason is that there were no Mullahs then.

thanx,

regards,

 

[MilesTogo]

Are you implying that Pakistanis vote for "secularism" over "sharia"?

This thread is about Secularism in Pakistan - NOT India.

Pakistanis for all its history have ONLY voted for Secular parties as compared to the many many parties that compete on grounds of implementation of Shariah.

 

[MilesTogo]

So you have to be prosperous first to implement sharia. How prosperous? like Saudi Arabia or like Turkey or like America?

I thought Quran and related laws were applicable universally?

@ all,

Sharia Law, cannot be implemented in these times. It must have the proper environment to be implemented in. e.g. A common mis-conception is that sharia was implemented in the time of our beloved prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Well, that is wrong. Sharia Law was first introduced by Hazrat Umar, who, upon recognizing the right circumstances, implemented it.

The right or correct environment means when all the people living in a state are prosperous and no one is needy and poor. Throughout our Islamic history, that has only happenned in Hazrat Umer's time. imagine cutting off the hand of someone who steals some money just to buy food for his starving children, well, that cannot happen today. But it did happen in Hazrat Umer's time as all the people living under his government were prosperous and if anyone stole anything, it was out of pure jealousy. In Hazrat Umer's time, their was no one left to give zakat to.........get my point?

And no muslim country has implemented Sharia Law, my friends, not even Saudi Arabia.

As far as Secularism and Islam go,well, in reality secularism is what islamic system of governance is based upon, although with some minor changes. Islam gives protection, freedom and all the rights to all the religions in the world. But the government must follow Islamic political system,which,after extensive study of the different political systems of the world(by me ofcourse), is the best system anyone can opt.

p.s.
one of our esteemed collegue said that the only reason islam was thriving before was because those people adhered to islamic/sharia law. Well my friend, i hate to burst ur bubble but that is just plain wrong. The golden era of islam was due to hard work by some people and the freedom that the governments, at those times, allowed their people. But the most important reason is that there were no Mullahs then.

thanx,

regards,

 

[Atheist]

That's an eye opener - Many misplaced souls will have a better picture now.

@ all,

Sharia Law, cannot be implemented in these times. It must have the proper environment to be implemented in. e.g. A common mis-conception is that sharia was implemented in the time of our beloved prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Well, that is wrong. Sharia Law was first introduced by Hazrat Umar, who, upon recognizing the right circumstances, implemented it.

The right or correct environment means when all the people living in a state are prosperous and no one is needy and poor. Throughout our Islamic history, that has only happenned in Hazrat Umer's time. imagine cutting off the hand of someone who steals some money just to buy food for his starving children, well, that cannot happen today. But it did happen in Hazrat Umer's time as all the people living under his government were prosperous and if anyone stole anything, it was out of pure jealousy. In Hazrat Umer's time, their was no one left to give zakat to.........get my point?

And no muslim country has implemented Sharia Law, my friends, not even Saudi Arabia.

As far as Secularism and Islam go,well, in reality secularism is what islamic system of governance is based upon, although with some minor changes. Islam gives protection, freedom and all the rights to all the religions in the world. But the government must follow Islamic political system,which,after extensive study of the different political systems of the world(by me ofcourse), is the best system anyone can opt.

p.s.
one of our esteemed collegue said that the only reason islam was thriving before was because those people adhered to islamic/sharia law. Well my friend, i hate to burst ur bubble but that is just plain wrong. The golden era of islam was due to hard work by some people and the freedom that the governments, at those times, allowed their people. But the most important reason is that there were no Mullahs then.

thanx,

regards,

 

[Wounded Healer]

So you have to be prosperous first to implement sharia. How prosperous? like Saudi Arabia or like Turkey or like America?

I thought Quran and related laws were applicable universally?

No my friend,prosperity is just one of the minor prerequisites. The main Feature for the Islamic Sharia Law to be implemented is the "Khilafat" and the "Shura". Without these two, Sharia Law cannot be implemented.

I thought Quran and related laws were applicable universally?[/

They are, but for any law to be passed or implemented, there has to be some ground work laid before, is'nt it?

regards,

 

[sparklingway]

Secularism only works in Christian countries, because Christian law is very barbaric in nature.

Our founding fathers Jinnah and Allama Iqbal (rah) were Islamists!

Jinnah proposed an Islamic economic and political system.

YouTube - Was Quad-E-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah a Secularist?

That's what Zaid Hamid tells you. They've even found this book (like they found that wali). Read the part in English. It is the only book, only book which narrates this incident where Jinnah is telling that he was told by the Prophet in a dream to go back to India. Somehow the Jinnah Gallery in the National Archives of Pakistan does not have any such file nor does the National Library have this book or any other book which narrates this incident (this being the only book where the incident is narrated). For reference, The National Library has nearly a whole floor dedicated to Pakistan Movement and Jinnah.



Secularism ≠ anti region. Being secular does not take away a society's religious inclinations or the effect of region on cultural norms. Secularism promotes tolerance, respect and equality among people regardless of religious affiliation.

Conjuring and imagining history is a great sin and these people are guilty of this crime.

The sorry state of affairs where every party has tried to paint history with their own distorted brushes and adultered it beyond recognition is summarized :-

 

[Abhiras]

As far as Secularism and Islam go,well, in reality secularism is what islamic system of governance is based upon, although with some minor changes. Islam gives protection, freedom and all the rights to all the religions in the world. But the government must follow Islamic political system,which,after extensive study of the different political systems of the world(by me ofcourse), is the best system anyone can opt.

secularism does not favor any particular religion & secularism is denied when you talk about ' government must follow Islamic political system'...do not mention any religion
Let the people choose what is the best for them....
every secular and non secular country provide protection, freedom to all the citizen...but the tragedy is some country...even whose official name contain the name of the religion somewhat claims themselves secular....
I have heard some country give severe punishment if person convert from certain religion....So Religion is bonded upon the people there....

 

[Hyde]

Chacha Quad-e-Azam looks beautiful in beard

 

[Luftwaffe]

looks like american president Lincoln.